History / The great mistakes of Poland's history? [216]

Your 'knowledge' is not necessarily the 'knowledge' of others, Sok. As Pontius Pilate said to Jesus, "we both have truths, are mine the same as yours?".

What you fail to do is what I was trained to do at university the whole time. So and so said this while so and so said that. I agree with so and so because of x, y and z. You cite a source and take it as given to support some nonsense line. Look, "the war was an obvious failure"? True or false?

You know full well what I was saying, lad, and it wasn't about dismissing them outright. I was talking about them serving an agenda and wanting to make money. The relevance and accuracy of their findings is for us to work out by discussion, not just through picking a line here and there which supports your line of thought.

Why is it so black and white with you? I'm not saying Guderian was wrong at all, you are presupposing that. I even said that enveloping and traditional tactics were used and that Liddell Hart vastly exaggerated his Blitzkrieg claims, did I not? What do you understand by lightning war, Sok? Let's approach it on a step-by-step basis so I can expose your reasoning.

History / The great mistakes of Poland's history? [216]

Sokrates, you are not in a better position, really. You didn't fight in the war and have corroborated little. Many sources just want to sell copies and make money, their accuracy is lacking. You can throw out all the garbage stats you want, I won't take it as being the truth by a long stretch.

I don't pretend to be an expert on the defensive war. You come across as sb who thinks he does and that's where you go wrong. You are too sure of things that you shouldn't be too sure of.

History / The great mistakes of Poland's history? [216]

I don't follow. I didn't make any connection between defensive and offensive here. Are you tired? That's because you threw everything but the kitchen sink at them. It was in the name of the defence of the country. You didn't declare war, they did.

Whose antiquated radios? The Poles worked wonders with code cracking and radio. Shared intel also helped the cause.

felsztyn.tripod.com/germaninvasion/

it sounds dubious but there's some good reading here. I like the element of surprise attacks.

History / The great mistakes of Poland's history? [216]

That's because Polish morale is strong and their defensive instincts powerful. It doesn't detract from the inefficacy and the lack of success. Yes, the Pursuit Brigade did an honourable job of defending Poland but the main reason why it wasn't more of a success was poor visibility that day.

OK, I'll have a look :)

'The bombing of rail network, crossroads and troop concentrations played havoc on Polish mobilisation, while attacks upon civilian and military targets in towns and cities disrupted command and control by wrecking the antiquated Polish signal network: Shortly after, in a period of a few days, Luftwaffe numerical and technological superiority took its toll on the Polish Air Force' absoluteastronomy.com/topics/Strategic_bombing_during_World_War_II

how about this?

The Germans weren't at full strength in those battles, right? ;)

History / The great mistakes of Poland's history? [216]

Mława and Jordanów, where did they spring from? What publications? I don't make you research anything, I generally respond to principles of yours and not specific numbers. Operation Wasserkante is quite well known.

I said "easily repelled with some adjustment". This is in accordance with the vision of Sun Tzu and a basic human trait of learning from past experience. Where did I call those victories easy? They didn't last that long so one can only presume that they weren't overly complicated. They certainly weren't protracted.

Was it efficacious or not, Sok? You were talking about the successful attainment of objectives, your words. So, was Operation Wasserkante an effective operation or not?

News / THE ARMY OF POLAND - THE REALITY [493]

Yes but one may assume an element of calculation by Putin and Medvedev. I'm not saying they are any great shakes and they were hopeless against Afghanistan back in 79.

In war, Convex.

The reality? I don't know.

History / The great mistakes of Poland's history? [216]

My mistake and my apology, I meant Silesia. Bad local management by the seems of it. Poland is another story.

OK, en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Border
This proves you wrong. Many individual battles were lost in the first 48 hours. Caught in a lie again!

It had its strengths as the Battle of Mokra near Częstochowa showed but the threats are easily repelled with some adjustment. It was more effective in the 14th-century. The Germans didn't maximise their technological advantage against it in WWII but it lost its element of surprise.

Blitzkreig wasn't used?
schoolshistory.org.uk/EuropeatWar/blitzkrieg_poland.htm
megaessays.com/viewpaper/54633.html

Maybe you prefer audiovisual formats, ...

Are you testing me out or bluffing? Have you ever heard of Operation Wasserkante? If not, I suggest we start with that after you read up on it. You were trounced again there. Not successful? Chyba żartujesz teraz, chłopaku!

You guys performed well, yes. However, defeated in 1 month suggests not so well. For all your stats, we still won.

Now, "the war was an obvious failure", who said it? "Successes everywhere"? Irreconciliable positions?

News / THE ARMY OF POLAND - THE REALITY [493]

Sokrates, based on your last post in the other thread, how can I take anything you say seriously? Russia waltzed into Georgia very easily indeed and sorted the matter out. The morality of it is another question.

Oh, we see just how effective Germany, plus 41 other countries, are faring in Afghanistan. There are Poles there too. Didn't Jagielski teach you anything at all???

Poland Vs Afghanistan or Germany Vs Afghanistan? How long do you think either of those 2 battles would last?

History / The great mistakes of Poland's history? [216]

According to one Nikolaus Wolf, yes ;)

So in this respect Poland was similar to South Africa? Plenty of natural resources and minerals but nobody with the savvy of how to help the community, just themselves? I can't give you an exact time frame but many prospered here because of coal mining.

His overall plans, Sok. He failed to cover all bases.

No, it went horribly wrong and that's documented history. Stop the BS! Several mini-battles constituted the Battle of the Borders and you were trounced in a matter of hours and days. Only in the Battle of Hel did you last over a month. Now tell me this. Back in 1933, you were oh so mighty and would apparently take out Germany in a week. You put all the preparations in place through Stachiewicz and SR and got all those lovely goodies you spoke of. Why then did you lose in a matter of days some battles where the preparation was supposedly full and effective?

You know what, Sok, you are a classic Polish romantic. You cite all these technologies and hype up all those cavalry raids (20th century, LOL) but you can't mask the fact that you got whooped left, right and centre. Stachiewicz was so good that he got interned, TWICE. Once under the order of Władisław Sikorski, LOL.

"Successes everywhere", you said. You really are a deluded man, you know that? "The war was an obvious failure" (I'll give you a clue, 21:14 05/04/10;)). Guess the author of that quote?! I'm sure a Bushism could be found along those lines. Maybe sth like, 'we may have failed but we definitely succeeded', LOL. How about that, can I make that the Sokrates Declaration? The Greek philosopher would be rolling in his grave! ;) Ah, an obvious failure for the Allies? Didn't we win? ;) ;) I think I read somewhere that we did and it wasn't at Back of Matchboxes R Us ;)

Germans didn't use Blitzkrieg in Poland? ROTFL! You are senile, dude. I believe that historians distorted its true extent (Hart, for example) and that enveloping did indeed take place but, nonetheless, it was employed.

Sorry, I don't know of that guy and I can't be expected to. You lost a lot of the key battles in the first week, never mind 2 months.

Ah, good old Polish deflection techniques. If in doubt, go and have a pop at someone else. Look, Poland fell in 1 month. Britain and the allies won over a few years, true??

News / Should Poland made an energy bridge deal with Russia? [122]

There is freedom to do some things and prohibitions on doing others. Need it be deeper than that?

Language / Is the term 'Polak' derogatory?? [254]

My name's Sean, not Scot ;)

History / The great mistakes of Poland's history? [216]

Sok, a recurring theme that I see time and again is the removal of internal trade barriers and tariffs, coupled with improved infrastructure YET a cutting off of foreign trade relations. Why was that the case? You can't blame a lack of foreign investment if you sever the chord.

Aha, lacking in effective management techniques? The region had vast riches dating back to Bismarck :)

You lied about the effectiveness of his plans. The Battle of the Border went horribly wrong. You underestimated their blitzkrieg strategy and overestimated your military capabilities. How can it have been a success when you lost in just over a month? Your defensive lines were compromised and you didn't know where to send men. To be fair, you couldn't really have foreseen the Drang Nach Osten from Prussia as it was in its infancy as an idea.

History / The great mistakes of Poland's history? [216]

Aha, ok. However, there are no guarantees that following the German model would have yielded better results. We just don't know how things would have panned out and conjectural speculation is just that.

History / The great mistakes of Poland's history? [216]

Poland had just won its independence and there were some industrial bases to build on. Heavy motor vehicles and mining, for example.

I suggest you look back at the League of Nations decision of 1921, Sok.

Poverty stricken? Hardly. Three Uprisings would suggest that the area was worth fighting for. There was abundant mineral wealth there, just not distributed well at that time.

Pressurised but not forced. I rest my case.

All of them successful? So why do so many historians point to him as being responsible for the fall of Poland in WWII? Do you know better than them? Are you a historian?

Yes, to be targetted by ready tanks that saw them coming.

History / The great mistakes of Poland's history? [216]

Had no industry? What utter crap! You got most of the mining areas after WWI, leaving the entitlement of Germans to a minor fraction. Are you aware of how rich those people were? Come to Silesia and learn.

OK, let's talk specifics. I'm sure you know who Wacław Stachiewicz was. I don't believe that he should cop the whack for Poland's losing of the war but he still didn't clearly show how his plans were to be implemented and there was too much internal wrangling with Smigly-Rydz. NOT a theory, just fact!

That's nonsense again, Sok. That intel you are referring to came later through the use of radar, a Scottish invention ;) I was talking about the predecessor of Lord Halifax who had plenty of data on Hitler.

Ask Crow, Sok. Cavalry was fine back in the 14th century but against German panzers? Come on!

History / The great mistakes of Poland's history? [216]

Maybe Poland was too honest in its business dealings? GB and Germany were doing well enough. My point is that Piłsudki's incumbent didn't share in his fear. He thought the General was going senile and losing his touch. Also, Hitler was already saying some vile things about the Jews. The British foreign minister was on top of collating data, why wasn't his Polish counterpart?

One battle is just that, Sok, one battle.

History / The great mistakes of Poland's history? [216]

That's absolute garbage, Sokrates. If we are to accept that he went to France (unarchived) then he perceived a danger. Why did he pursue a pre-emptive war? He broke down with his head in his hands. Why? Because his struggle was falling apart and he had little faith in his incumbents/successors. They did almost nothing to modernise Poland's army. What, did they think that horses would destroy panzers? LOL

I will interpret your response as provocation ;)

History / The great mistakes of Poland's history? [216]

And you know nothing about wink marks, BB ;)

I have heard of him but am not well up on what he did without that link you have just provided. Then again, I've never had a need to know.

One of the great mistakes of your history? Truthfully, it was not listening to Piłsudski's very real warnings before his death.

History / The great mistakes of Poland's history? [216]

Borrka, you have to qualify those terms as hawkish and conservative in Europe and the same in America are 2 quite different things at times.

Schumacher? Is he the father of Ralf and Michael? Maybe Harald's brother? ;) ;)

Better life washing dishes and working in factories like robots? Even those who graduated from their studies do such work.

Well, like it or not, many are happy to have historic ties with Ukraine and the Baltic States, esp Lithuania. Fans of Słowacki and Mickiewicz being but some.

The German way of life? Can you explain a day in the life of a typical German? Based on life in Berlin, I saw waaaaay too many commercial outlets and people pigging out on fleisch. Oh, you meant the Turkish element at Kreuzberg? ;0 ;) Driving around in Mercs is nothing special, 90-95% of Tiranians in Albania do it ;)

Language / Polish was chosen the HARDEST LANGUAGE in the world to learn... :D [1558]

I've never felt the need to master higher level grammar in Polish. Gestures and a sound knowledge of common basic speech has gotten me by nicely.

See it as a project, Mirko.

Language / Polish was chosen the HARDEST LANGUAGE in the world to learn... :D [1558]

The cases have some semblance of predictability and logic, Mirko. When you become comfortable with the rules, you can begin to take on the exceptions. Take the instrumental case, for example. Most commonly, it is em or iem at the end, e.g samolotem, samochodem, promem or pociągiem to name but 4. However, piechotą or na nogach are other options.

History / The great mistakes of Poland's history? [216]

I think you misinterpreted me, BB. By stymied I meant that they didn't have free movement like they enjoy now, access to a wide range of goods in the shops in which to increase their options and a foreign occupier to curtail their freedoms.

Yes, BB, I have read Animal Farm by George Orwell :)

This present has direct relevance to the past. I feel that the history he may be alluding to has been extensively covered elsewhere here.

History / The great mistakes of Poland's history? [216]

We can't change history? Revisionist historians do a good enough job there ;)

Borrka, what German politicians do you admire? Many Poles have enough to satisfy their needs. Wants tend to lead to more wants and that's not the best road to go down. Would you like to see your luxury car sit in the car park for 10 hours a day as you do your high-profile job? Oh, you can always drive it home and look at it from your window ;)

Life of misery? Many Poles are very patriotic and see the good options around them. Or are Polish food, spending time with Polish women and enjoying super nature just bluffs, made out to be desirable things?

I've never had a luxury life as the common perception would define it. Still, I've had plenty good food&drink from all over the world and have been allowed to travel extensively, thanks to having funds in place. I've also met some really good people. Isn't that enough for the Polish nouveau-riche?

Your post neatly sums up the Polish ambivalence towards the East. Yes, communism was a system which stymied the masses but it suppressed the natural instincts of being jealous of your neighbour for having material goods. Foregoing a life of affluence isn't a bad thing in itself.

Life / Any "wet" plans for Śmigus-dyngus? [51]

I bet you don't, my friend ;)

Life / Any "wet" plans for Śmigus-dyngus? [51]

I know :)

News / Should Poland made an energy bridge deal with Russia? [122]

What kind of deal, Crow? Anything significant would make quite a few Poles angry and even be seen badly by certain factions that are anti-Russian, e.g Chechens.

Russia caused many of its own problems and needed 2 stabs to silence Chechnya. They haven't heard the end of it according to some Chechens.

Poland siding with Russia is fraught with pitfalls.

Life / Any "wet" plans for Śmigus-dyngus? [51]

I have to resist the obvious temptation ;) ;)

This day has never held any significance for me personally in Poland. Maybe it's time to change that!? A free wet t-shirt competition without a competition ;)

News / Should Poland made an energy bridge deal with Russia? [122]

Absolutely not, BB. Putin and Merkel have their shortcomings but they have forged a strong partnership that Poland should not feel intimidated by. I think the lawyers are on top of those gas pipeline complications that previously hindered developments. Poland can move forward and do further business with Russia. Other than gas, what would that be?

News / Should Poland made an energy bridge deal with Russia? [122]

Plus, Russia isn't the most reliable of partners in business. They can play hardball and negotiating with them may be hard under the pacifier, Tusk. Putin's background ensures that he comes more charged to the table and Poland needs sb equally forceful and sure of himself. Otherwise, Poland will always come out second best.

History / The great mistakes of Poland's history? [216]

Still, why put a price on cultural development, Borrka? Trust me, when you see more and more morons driving around in swish cars, living out the rat race, then you will hope for a return to cultural niceties and the fight that symbolises the Polish spirit.

Many Poles went to Germany and came back to spread their influences around. 'Mistakes' can be cured and the EU is providing that option by allowing Poles more upward mobility.

Borrka, you are one of the smartest guys here so why jeopardise that by referring to wealth? Marek Konrad is one of those clowns that got rich and went up his own backside. Do you want to start off down that road?