News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2986]

Foreigner4,So you're saying that as long as it's in her body it's ok to end that life because of a special relationship.How does this relationship end after it's out of the womb?It's either a life or it isn't.She should not be allowed to terminate that life that was created when the baby is also the fathers as well,because they were careless.They can hide behind "right to choose",when it's really snuff out a life because the life is a hindrance.Then call it that and don't pretend that it's something else.

News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2986]

Foreigner4,It's not that simple,we really don't have control of what our government does when it comes to military action,as much as people might think,I myself don't agree with every thing militarily that my government does.It's still not an excuse not to try and take care of something that is in your control.If we were to go by what your saying;then no one should speak out against anything.It would be a bad reason not to speak out against something like that and furthermore that would be a foolish reason not to stop it if you could.

It's interesting to me that if someone kills a pregnant woman;they are charged with double murder and the law doesn't really define when the baby is considered a life in this case.I'm not insinuating that people who have abortion are murderers,but this speaks to the contradiction.

News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2986]

Foreigner4,we are people killing each other right now;so does this make it right?You can argue the meaning out of anything,but it still has meaning.

News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2986]

Harry,the baby can be alive and not survive outside the womb with medical assistance,I don't think what your saying should be used as a criteria to decide if it's life or not.

News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2986]

Harry,it's the mother's body that keeps the baby alive..If they take the baby out too soon,after having established that the baby is alive,they can't remove the body and keep he/she alive,it's only after the baby has been alive for so long in the womb that they can remove the baby and he/she can be kept alive.

News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2986]

4eigner,I agree,this is what we have been talking about here this whole time;criteria.

News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2986]

SeanBM,I agree that if abortion were made illegal that there would be a lot of unsafe abortions and result in a lot of death.

SeanBM this is why this is such a tough issue when talking about abortion.I'm not for abortion,but that is a valid point.

News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2986]

SeanBM,I know it's easy to be philosophical when it happens to someone else and this is why I don't judge people in these situations.It's a very touchy issue.I would just hope that people would opt for life,when because of their carelessness they brought a child in this world.I can tell you if I got a woman pregnant without taking care then I would want to have the baby,even if she didn't want to.I would be very hurt and angry if she deprived me of a life that I helped create.

I am not for abortion,but if it's allowed;then I think that both should be on the same page at least.My argument is not based on the fact that some woman may change thier mind,that's my belief only.I base my argument on the fact that a man should have a say in the lfe that he helped create under those circumstances.That's my whole argument.

News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2986]

SeanBM,you can make it a criminal offense if she doesn't have the baby.He would have to assume 100% responsibility for the child or he would face some stiff time.If the idea is to avoid responsibility,this would absolve her of it.If she carried a baby to term it's a very good possibility she would change her mind.It's not like she would be bringing an unwanted child into the world,which is one of the biggest arguments for abortion.

News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2986]

SeanBM,I'm referring to a specific situation as I have described all through this thread,I think they have to be on the same page when you're talking about a life.It's one thing if no one wants to care for the child,but if you have the father willing where she isn't.......

News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2986]

Delphiandomine,if you go by the logic of choice,then the guy should have a choice as to whether or not he wants to take care of the baby if he can't decide either for or against having the baby.

News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2986]

SeanBM,you brought up a very good point up earlier and that's a really tough one.

News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2986]

SeanBM,It's hard not to let your emotions get in the way when your talking about life.It is also hard for woman when after all it is their body that this involves.I myself try to stick to logic and think this way,but I'm not above getting caught up either.

Are you saying the repercussions of it being legal or illegal or both ways?

News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2986]

rozumiemnic,it's easy for people to say all kinds of things when they haven't experienced it themselves.

News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2986]

Foreigner4,You've got the gist of what I'm saying.

natasia,thank you for sharing some of your experiences.SeanBM,I completely agree about being informed.

News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2986]

Foreigner4,Sorry for the misconception,I don't think it's hypocritical,unless people didn't expect it to apply to any of their female friends or a former girl friend.I am only referring to the case of not wanting the responsibility and where the male is willing to take care of the baby;that's it.You're making it seem as if there would be no reason as to why they would be told to carry the baby.I'm not talking about some one being forced to get pregnant and carry the baby as well.I'm talking about someone willfully throwing caution to the wind and getting pregnant and then for strictly selfish reasons,decides this baby would be a nuisance.I'm not talking about moral superiority,but I am talking about what I believe is right and I believe that a life is more important.Like I said I wouldn't judge anyone as horrible,I would only hope that someone would do the right thing in this situation.You can suggest that I'm talking about taking away sex or this that or the other thing.Nothing like that.I'm not saying don't have sex,I'm saying realize that you could be expected to raise a child if because of your lack of care you bring forth a child.If people want some sexless utopian society that's on them.If I were suggesting a sexless society then you could call me the biggest hypocrite in the world lol:).I can't be any clearer than this.

News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2986]

GabiDaHun,my body isn't designed for it.If I were a woman I believe that I would because I wouldn't want to ditch the responsibility.It's the responsibility that I am referring to,I'm sorry I don't believe that a woman should be allowed to throw caution to the wind get pregnant then decide because I don't want the responsibility or because I don't want to have to deliver the baby that this is a good reason.A woman doesn't have to get pregnant.Faulty contraception if this is the case is one thing,but deciding not to protect yourself and then having sex;then I say that the woman should have to deal with it.I wouldn't like it but I would realize that my bad decision brought this about,because I knew full well this could happen and to not go through with it is selfishness at this point.But we can agree to disagree and that's cool,I'm just being honest as to how I feel about it.Ether way I don't judge anyone,I just hope they would do the right thing by the child.

News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2986]

Foreigner4,I interpreted it as you saying people can't express themselves because you asked that question under one of my quotes.A baby in a woman's body is not her body though the baby may reside in her body.If the child dies it doesn't mean the woman will;where as if the woman dies the child surely will.The law considers the man responsible for the child therefore this means the child is also his,no changing that.The baby within her body is not her body plain and simple.I don't see any hypocrisy or inconsistency in telling a woman that if a life is created she owes that life a responsibility to care for it or to suggest that if she doesn't want to have a child then don't take the chance.If everyone on this thread have children that they aren't taking care of then that's hypocrisy and even if it was this still doesn't change anything.The only type of abortion that I am against is having it because you decided not to be careful and then got pregnant.Because what I'm getting from the proponents;is that if a woman wants to throw caution to the wind and then abort a life that this is ok.I personally don't believe that this is ok.

News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2986]

Foreigner4,So we should have a say after the fact as well,because she has a say as to whether or not she wants to have sex just as well.

Foreigner4,If I got a woman pregnant I would intend on taking care of the child.Once again if the woman doesn't want to deal with a child then don't get pregnant,it's that simple.You produce a child you should be responsible for it.Why you seem to think that because someone else doesn't want to take care of a child they didn't bring into the world means that they can't express the opinion that people who do should fulfill their obligations..........You know no one is trying to tell anyone what they should do with their body,just what they shouldn't do with a different one.

News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2986]

natasia,I wish I could get all indignant about your comment in regards to men opting for abortion lol ;)

News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2986]

Orpheus,do you think that perhaps,he might of worded it wrong?

News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2986]

GabiDaHun,So you know;I don't judge anyone,I may judge what I feel is wrong and may not like what a person is doing,but I don't judge and I don't want to dictate how people should live.On this issue and I have made it very clear that I think it is wrong to have an abortion simply to avoid responsibility and this means being responsible for bringing a child into the world.I also believe that the male partner should have a say as well.I don't judge people for their decisions because I can't honestly know what I'd do in a given situation until confronted with it.

News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2986]

GabiDaHun,I'm not suggesting based on that criteria.I'm asking you about a specific situation that needs no proving because they have said it was unprotected.Do you feel that this person or persons should still have the right to choose.Forget about proving anything I am strictly referring to this and not that this be the basis for deciding anything else.It's a point blank question.

News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2986]

GabidaHun,What if they had unprotected sex and admitted it,but wanted the abortion because they simply didn't want to deal with the responsibility that was the result of their not using contraception.

News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2986]

GabiDaHun,what if they themselves say that it was from unprotected sex.There would no motivation for them to lie about this.

News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2986]

GabiDaHun,ok so what if it happens through unprotected sex,is it still the right to choose?

News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2986]

GabiDaHun,Of those cases you don't know how many people are saying that they used protection and how can it be proven that it's contraception failure.

News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2986]

GabiDaHun,my bad,I have to admit that contraception failure is a different scenario.I'm talking about not being careful.

News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2986]

GabiDaHun,it would be more like she put herself through it,by not being careful.You're making it sound like she would be forced to be pregnant.If she hadn't got pregnant she wouldn't be pregnant.

News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2986]

Natasia,I have heard a woman say that she wished she'd never had an abortion.I've never heard one say she wished that she would have aborted her child.