strzyga
18 Feb 2010
Language / Polish was chosen the HARDEST LANGUAGE in the world to learn... :D [1558]
oh yes, obviously, thanks for the correction!
I think you meant homophones.
oh yes, obviously, thanks for the correction!
strzyga
17 Feb 2010
Language / Polish was chosen the HARDEST LANGUAGE in the world to learn... :D [1558]
oh, I see. At least that would be a new idea on this forum :)
oh, I see. At least that would be a new idea on this forum :)
strzyga
17 Feb 2010
Language / Polish was chosen the HARDEST LANGUAGE in the world to learn... :D [1558]
so which case did you describe as used sparingly?
so which case did you describe as used sparingly?
strzyga
17 Feb 2010
Language / Polish was chosen the HARDEST LANGUAGE in the world to learn... :D [1558]
:))
I'm not a fan of the Romantic poetry either, from my Very Subjective Point of View most of it is very bad and that's exactly the reason why I decided to quote these fragments. It was supposed to be a joke. Of course these are Polish translations, good and adequate ones I must add, and vocative is absolutely necessary here, there's just no other way to render it.
As far as contemporary language goes, there are plenty of usage examples with the words: ziemia, gwiazda, ojczyzna, dom and suchlike and it's not just poetry. Granted, addressing a computer might sound funny... or it might seem so until you've experienced a major system breakdown at the worst possible moment.
OK, maybe I'm splitting hairs. But anyway, even if you limit the vocative case to nouns referring to people, it's still indispensable in the structure of the language at its present stage of development. I know quite a number of Poles who say "poszłem" instead of "poszedłem", but I have yet to meet somebody who would say "pan doktor" instead of "panie doktorze" addressing the physician at a medical examination. You can't substitute Vocative with Nominative here, there's not even room for a mistake. So maybe Nominative will completely replace Vocative at some point in future, but it's still a long, long way to go.
(it's all assumed bad until proven otherwise).
:))
I'm not a fan of the Romantic poetry either, from my Very Subjective Point of View most of it is very bad and that's exactly the reason why I decided to quote these fragments. It was supposed to be a joke. Of course these are Polish translations, good and adequate ones I must add, and vocative is absolutely necessary here, there's just no other way to render it.
As far as contemporary language goes, there are plenty of usage examples with the words: ziemia, gwiazda, ojczyzna, dom and suchlike and it's not just poetry. Granted, addressing a computer might sound funny... or it might seem so until you've experienced a major system breakdown at the worst possible moment.
OK, maybe I'm splitting hairs. But anyway, even if you limit the vocative case to nouns referring to people, it's still indispensable in the structure of the language at its present stage of development. I know quite a number of Poles who say "poszłem" instead of "poszedłem", but I have yet to meet somebody who would say "pan doktor" instead of "panie doktorze" addressing the physician at a medical examination. You can't substitute Vocative with Nominative here, there's not even room for a mistake. So maybe Nominative will completely replace Vocative at some point in future, but it's still a long, long way to go.
strzyga
17 Feb 2010
Language / Polish was chosen the HARDEST LANGUAGE in the world to learn... :D [1558]
Dziki Wietrze Zachodni, oddechu Jesieni,
(...)
Dziki duchu, co wszędzie dotrzeć jesteś w stanie,
Który niszczysz i chronisz, usłysz me wołanie!
P.B. Shelley
and:
Attycki kształcie! Piękna figuro! Tak wiele
Marmurowych cię zdobi, prócz mężczyzn i kobiet,
Leśnych gałęzi ponad zadeptanym zielem;
Cicha formo, co sądom naszym na złość robisz,
Spokój mącisz, jak wieczność: O, Sielanko Zimna...
John Keats
:))
extremely rare outside of bad poetry
Dziki Wietrze Zachodni, oddechu Jesieni,
(...)
Dziki duchu, co wszędzie dotrzeć jesteś w stanie,
Który niszczysz i chronisz, usłysz me wołanie!
P.B. Shelley
and:
Attycki kształcie! Piękna figuro! Tak wiele
Marmurowych cię zdobi, prócz mężczyzn i kobiet,
Leśnych gałęzi ponad zadeptanym zielem;
Cicha formo, co sądom naszym na złość robisz,
Spokój mącisz, jak wieczność: O, Sielanko Zimna...
John Keats
:))
strzyga
17 Feb 2010
Language / Polish was chosen the HARDEST LANGUAGE in the world to learn... :D [1558]
In speech, absolutely. When addressing somebody, you can say "Marek" instead of "Marku", but you cannot say "pan prezydent" or "pan doktor" instead of "panie prezydencie, panie doktorze".
In speech, absolutely. When addressing somebody, you can say "Marek" instead of "Marku", but you cannot say "pan prezydent" or "pan doktor" instead of "panie prezydencie, panie doktorze".
strzyga
17 Feb 2010
Language / Polish was chosen the HARDEST LANGUAGE in the world to learn... :D [1558]
Panie profesorze, panie doktorze, panie prezydencie, panie premierze, Boże, mamo, tato, synu, córko, siostro, bracie etc. - how many times a day do you hear/see one of these forms? I'd say it's disappearing only with some first names, but with common nouns it's still very much alive and kicking.
Panie profesorze, panie doktorze, panie prezydencie, panie premierze, Boże, mamo, tato, synu, córko, siostro, bracie etc. - how many times a day do you hear/see one of these forms? I'd say it's disappearing only with some first names, but with common nouns it's still very much alive and kicking.
strzyga
16 Feb 2010
Language / Polish was chosen the HARDEST LANGUAGE in the world to learn... :D [1558]
As Mafketis says, there's no difference, morze and może are homonymes meaning that they sound exactly the same.
The "r" is voiced in words having the combination r+ż, like drżeć or rżysko, and in a few other words: marznąć, mierzić and their derivatives (zmarznięty, zmarzlina) - here "r" and "z" are pronounced seperately. But these are exceptions.
I assumed that there was a difference, morze being s t r e t c h e d and also having the "r" voiced whilst może is shorter and there is no hint of the "missing" "r"
As Mafketis says, there's no difference, morze and może are homonymes meaning that they sound exactly the same.
The "r" is voiced in words having the combination r+ż, like drżeć or rżysko, and in a few other words: marznąć, mierzić and their derivatives (zmarznięty, zmarzlina) - here "r" and "z" are pronounced seperately. But these are exceptions.
strzyga
16 Feb 2010
Life / 3 reasons why winter is the best time of the year in Poland [58]
so, when was the last winter that you have survived in Poland? and where?
PolishNutjobThr
so, when was the last winter that you have survived in Poland? and where?
strzyga
10 Feb 2010
Life / Fat People in Poland? [161]
Pity. I'd be the first one to buy it.
?????
there are no offers like 1 kilo salami one euro
Pity. I'd be the first one to buy it.
Third communism produced slim people due to state control calory intake.
?????
strzyga
9 Feb 2010
Language / Polish was chosen the HARDEST LANGUAGE in the world to learn... :D [1558]
exactly, that's what I was trying to say
You know, I'm not really bothered by this kind of youthspeak. Teenagers have always been using their own kind of slang and most people grow out of it anyway. I was no different, only there were no text messages nor Internet when I was growing up. It can seem outrageous, but it's also creative and sometimes you see wonderful word economy in these messages. It's a bit like graffitti. Besides, it's the actual street speak - how many people, even educated adults, use well-rounded, fully grammatical sentences when speaking? We have had a large gap between the written literary Polish and the actual speech of the streets and such messages are filling this gap.
what's that?
The problem is that meaning is not just lexis. It's often a whole different way of thinking.
exactly, that's what I was trying to say
As far as my Polish is concerned, it certainly does lag behind, so I am unlikely to use such wonderful words as "zajebisty", or gibberish such as this: "Nie mam pojecia przed chwila dodalem weszlem tam na gamecenter skopiwoalem IP adress i nie dodaje jest tak jak bylo 5 sevow all angleiskie bo do Visty to raczej nic", or completely idiotic "Polski outdoor".
You know, I'm not really bothered by this kind of youthspeak. Teenagers have always been using their own kind of slang and most people grow out of it anyway. I was no different, only there were no text messages nor Internet when I was growing up. It can seem outrageous, but it's also creative and sometimes you see wonderful word economy in these messages. It's a bit like graffitti. Besides, it's the actual street speak - how many people, even educated adults, use well-rounded, fully grammatical sentences when speaking? We have had a large gap between the written literary Polish and the actual speech of the streets and such messages are filling this gap.
"Polski outdoor".
what's that?
strzyga
9 Feb 2010
Language / Polish was chosen the HARDEST LANGUAGE in the world to learn... :D [1558]
Seems to me that Polish verbs are a much bigger hurdle for learners than nouns and adjectives.
But I like your attitude ;)
Seems to me that Polish verbs are a much bigger hurdle for learners than nouns and adjectives.
But I like your attitude ;)
strzyga
7 Feb 2010
Life / Why so many Poles use a second hands clothes? [110]
Are you ashamed to use the water from your tap? Do you realize that it has been recycled many times, and from what?
Why so many not feel ashamed to wear pants or socks after some other people?
Are you ashamed to use the water from your tap? Do you realize that it has been recycled many times, and from what?
strzyga
7 Feb 2010
Language / Polish was chosen the HARDEST LANGUAGE in the world to learn... :D [1558]
Well, there are many catches of course, but the basic rule, be it translating or interpreting, is always the same: translate the meaning and not the words, and it stands even on the level of "good morning" and "how are you". Different languages use different words to convey the same semantic content, and using bilingual dictionaries to check up single words you are likely to end up with phrases like the famous "thank you from the mountain". It's true that it happens often and not only at the beginner level, and this is exactly the reason why I think that bilingual dictionaries can be more of an obstacle than a helping tool. It's much easier to render anything properly using monolingual dictionaries which show you how a word "works" in the language.
Bilingual dictionaries have their uses but they should not be over-used and certainly shouldn't be the only translation tool.
You've been living in an English-speaking country for many years so it might be that Polish has been pushed a little to the back of your mind and you find English phrases more readily available. This would probably reverse if you spent a couple of months in Poland.
As for the preparation, I'm not sure what you mean, but certainly you must know what you're talking about - I mean, understanding of the subject matter is absolutely necessary, you can't translate/interpret anything that you have no idea about, even if you are brilliant in both languages.
I'm not sure about the translating "into as well as from the source language". Many good and seasoned translators work one way only, even if their command of the second language is close to native or even if they come from bilingual families but were raised in only one of the respective countries. I'm not talking about interpreting simple conversations or translating family letters, but of the work one is doing as a professional.
It also depends on the specialisation field, it's possible to work both ways with finances, medicine, law or engineering, but very very few people would be able to translate both ways things like literary essays, not to mention literature as such.
Neither is a variety of disciplines any proof of the translator's seasoning and worth. The worthy and seasoned ones know their limits and don't try to tackle areas they don't know the first thing about. Business and law often go hand in hand, it's even possible that a law translator is a passionate cook and therefore able to handle gastronomic translation, but expecting him to know metaphysical concepts and vocabulary could be too much. The best ones often limit themselves to one field and do just law, or just medical.
No question about it. But I wasn't writing what should be but rather what often happens. I was not trained as an interpreter, so perhaps I am unaware of the catches the professionals may have.
Well, there are many catches of course, but the basic rule, be it translating or interpreting, is always the same: translate the meaning and not the words, and it stands even on the level of "good morning" and "how are you". Different languages use different words to convey the same semantic content, and using bilingual dictionaries to check up single words you are likely to end up with phrases like the famous "thank you from the mountain". It's true that it happens often and not only at the beginner level, and this is exactly the reason why I think that bilingual dictionaries can be more of an obstacle than a helping tool. It's much easier to render anything properly using monolingual dictionaries which show you how a word "works" in the language.
Bilingual dictionaries have their uses but they should not be over-used and certainly shouldn't be the only translation tool.
Strangely though, I find it easier to translate from my native Polish to English, which is my second language, but I feel that, without prior preparation, some texts would simply be not interpreted properly from one language to another.
You've been living in an English-speaking country for many years so it might be that Polish has been pushed a little to the back of your mind and you find English phrases more readily available. This would probably reverse if you spent a couple of months in Poland.
As for the preparation, I'm not sure what you mean, but certainly you must know what you're talking about - I mean, understanding of the subject matter is absolutely necessary, you can't translate/interpret anything that you have no idea about, even if you are brilliant in both languages.
a seasoned translator, such as ourselves in our respective languages, should and IS able through thorough training, to "switch gears" and not only translate into as well as from the source language, but into and from a variety of disciplines too, for example business and law. Both are related, as opposed to gastronomy and metaphysics or some such nonsense:-)
I'm not sure about the translating "into as well as from the source language". Many good and seasoned translators work one way only, even if their command of the second language is close to native or even if they come from bilingual families but were raised in only one of the respective countries. I'm not talking about interpreting simple conversations or translating family letters, but of the work one is doing as a professional.
It also depends on the specialisation field, it's possible to work both ways with finances, medicine, law or engineering, but very very few people would be able to translate both ways things like literary essays, not to mention literature as such.
Neither is a variety of disciplines any proof of the translator's seasoning and worth. The worthy and seasoned ones know their limits and don't try to tackle areas they don't know the first thing about. Business and law often go hand in hand, it's even possible that a law translator is a passionate cook and therefore able to handle gastronomic translation, but expecting him to know metaphysical concepts and vocabulary could be too much. The best ones often limit themselves to one field and do just law, or just medical.
strzyga
6 Feb 2010
Language / Polish was chosen the HARDEST LANGUAGE in the world to learn... :D [1558]
I'm sure that as a language professional you are well aware that relying on bilingual dictionaries is always risky and misleading, unless you're looking for the meaning of simple, basic words like "Tuesday". From the intermediate level on, the way to go are monolingual dictionaries with examples of word usage. For Polish, I recommend the PWN online dictionaries: usjp.pwn.pl - no example sentences here, but the definitions are correct. Also googling whole phrases can be quite helpful.
Actually, in my opinion, it's quite the opposite:) a good translator must be able to "switch gears", or to switch between thinking in two languages. It's more time-consuming, but at the same time more accurate on a deeper level than a simple word-for-word dictionary translation.
Whilst Ii trust a native Polish fellow translator like Strzyga, how can both of us arrive at two separate (professional) conclusions about the same bloody word?
I'm sure that as a language professional you are well aware that relying on bilingual dictionaries is always risky and misleading, unless you're looking for the meaning of simple, basic words like "Tuesday". From the intermediate level on, the way to go are monolingual dictionaries with examples of word usage. For Polish, I recommend the PWN online dictionaries: usjp.pwn.pl - no example sentences here, but the definitions are correct. Also googling whole phrases can be quite helpful.
A caveat is that this method may diminish translation skills.
Actually, in my opinion, it's quite the opposite:) a good translator must be able to "switch gears", or to switch between thinking in two languages. It's more time-consuming, but at the same time more accurate on a deeper level than a simple word-for-word dictionary translation.
strzyga
2 Feb 2010
Language / Polish was chosen the HARDEST LANGUAGE in the world to learn... :D [1558]
sorry, but "rozpisywać" is completely wrong in this sentence and it certainly doesn't mean "to keep writing until one's fingers hurt".
"Rozpisywałem do Ciebie, ale nigdy nie odpowiedziałaś." = I kept writing you until my fingers (literally) hurt, but you never answered.
sorry, but "rozpisywać" is completely wrong in this sentence and it certainly doesn't mean "to keep writing until one's fingers hurt".
strzyga
1 Feb 2010
Language / IS "MURZYN" word RACIST? [686]
no, that's definitely offensive, as well as czarnuch.
Murzyn may be a direct equivalent of nigger but is neutral, although nigger is (has become) offensive.
no, that's definitely offensive, as well as czarnuch.
Murzyn may be a direct equivalent of nigger but is neutral, although nigger is (has become) offensive.
strzyga
26 Jan 2010
strzyga
25 Jan 2010
Life / Polish and Czechs [191]
oh, but we _did_ beat them, not long ago!
(ok... then they beat us... doesn't matter though)
and tomorrow, we're going to beat them in handball. It's our turn now.
oh, but we _did_ beat them, not long ago!
(ok... then they beat us... doesn't matter though)
and tomorrow, we're going to beat them in handball. It's our turn now.
strzyga
24 Jan 2010
Language / Polish slang phrases - most popular. [606]
get drunk
Ubzdryngolił się jak świnia.
Which rather excludes sex...
ubzdryngolić się
get drunk
Ubzdryngolił się jak świnia.
Which rather excludes sex...
strzyga
24 Jan 2010
Language / Polish slang phrases - most popular. [606]
Some are and some aren't... LOL
But this line is a definite no-win.
What if she says: yes?
Women are smart no matter what country they live in... LOL
Some are and some aren't... LOL
But this line is a definite no-win.
What if she says: yes?
strzyga
24 Jan 2010
Food / Smalec - how to make it? [53]
Apart from onions, you can also add some grated apple to it (sour, the kind that goes to aple pie or szarlotka, not sweet dessert stuff). Nobody has mentioned it so far.
Or finely cut prunes.
Apart from onions, you can also add some grated apple to it (sour, the kind that goes to aple pie or szarlotka, not sweet dessert stuff). Nobody has mentioned it so far.
Or finely cut prunes.
strzyga
24 Jan 2010
Language / Polish slang phrases - most popular. [606]
skysoulmate
Sky, sorry to confirm your suspicions: it's NOT going to work.
You did much better in the other thread...
skysoulmate
Sky, sorry to confirm your suspicions: it's NOT going to work.
You did much better in the other thread...
strzyga
23 Jan 2010
Food / Do Polish people really love cabbage ?? [78]
In the pizza thread somebody mentioned pizza with sauerkraut, and I think it wasn't a Pole...
Cabbage rules!
I think if they could find a way to put cabbage on pizza they would.
In the pizza thread somebody mentioned pizza with sauerkraut, and I think it wasn't a Pole...
Cabbage rules!
strzyga
23 Jan 2010
Language / Z in usage with a verb... [20]
No, unfortunately, is not that simple.
Some verbs form perfective counterparts by changing the stem, eg. rzucać - rzucić.
And then prefixes added to a stem verb just modify or completely change its meaning, in a similar manner to the English phrasal verbs:
throw away, throw up, throw in...
in Polish you have: rzucać, wrzucać, narzucać, wyrzucać, przerzucać, zarzucać, dorzucać... (all imperfective)
or: rzucić, wrzucić, narzucić, wyrzucić, przerzucić, zarzucić, dorzucić - all perfective.
Brać (take) is imperfective; perfective is wziąć.
But ubrać means to dress and is perfective.
So there's no simple logic in it.
True.
No, unfortunately, is not that simple.
Some verbs form perfective counterparts by changing the stem, eg. rzucać - rzucić.
And then prefixes added to a stem verb just modify or completely change its meaning, in a similar manner to the English phrasal verbs:
throw away, throw up, throw in...
in Polish you have: rzucać, wrzucać, narzucać, wyrzucać, przerzucać, zarzucać, dorzucać... (all imperfective)
or: rzucić, wrzucić, narzucić, wyrzucić, przerzucić, zarzucić, dorzucić - all perfective.
Brać (take) is imperfective; perfective is wziąć.
But ubrać means to dress and is perfective.
So there's no simple logic in it.
This a big Jungle
True.
strzyga
23 Jan 2010
strzyga
23 Jan 2010
Language / Z in usage with a verb... [20]
chaza, may I say that I'm proud of you? :)
Other examples:
jeść - zjeść
walczyć - zwalczyć (fight)
palić - spalić (burn)
Sometimes other prefixes are used:
czytać - przeczytać (read)
pisać - napisać (write)
rzucić - wyrzucić (throw)
pić - wypić (drink)
biec - pobiec (run)
Sometimes the same result is obtained not by prefixes but by changing the stem of the verb:
skakać - skoczyć (jump)
mówić - powiedzieć (say)
i think i got it right
chaza, may I say that I'm proud of you? :)
The only example I can think of: "robić" and I have seen it spelled as zrobić.
Other examples:
jeść - zjeść
walczyć - zwalczyć (fight)
palić - spalić (burn)
Sometimes other prefixes are used:
czytać - przeczytać (read)
pisać - napisać (write)
rzucić - wyrzucić (throw)
pić - wypić (drink)
biec - pobiec (run)
Sometimes the same result is obtained not by prefixes but by changing the stem of the verb:
skakać - skoczyć (jump)
mówić - powiedzieć (say)
strzyga
23 Jan 2010
Food / Do Polish people really love cabbage ?? [78]
Sauerkraut has good bacteria responsible for the fermentation process, similar to yoghurt, so there is some sense in it.
my mother makes her own sauerkraut and eat a spoonful every time she gets an indigestion/ sour stomach. Does not make any sense to me but she swears by it!
Sauerkraut has good bacteria responsible for the fermentation process, similar to yoghurt, so there is some sense in it.
strzyga
23 Jan 2010
Food / Do Polish people really love cabbage ?? [78]
We badly need our cabbage as there is a demographic downfall in Poland now. As you all know, babies are either found in the cabbage or brought by storks. So we need to grow more and more cabbage to make up for the decreasing number of storks.
We badly need our cabbage as there is a demographic downfall in Poland now. As you all know, babies are either found in the cabbage or brought by storks. So we need to grow more and more cabbage to make up for the decreasing number of storks.
strzyga
23 Jan 2010
Language / twoj wasz [12]
It looks like coming back to the roots...
oiriginally English had thou, thine for 2nd person singular and you, your for plural. Then thou and thine went out of use and now it looks like you is shifting to singular and there is a need to introduce a new plural form. Interesting.
It looks like coming back to the roots...
oiriginally English had thou, thine for 2nd person singular and you, your for plural. Then thou and thine went out of use and now it looks like you is shifting to singular and there is a need to introduce a new plural form. Interesting.