News / Poland is the new military power of Europe. [275]

@Bratwurst Boy


Coming back to the topic of this thread I think the economic argument for an EU is only going to become stronger with time as it becomes clear that organizing their own defense becomes more and more expensive for each individual state. Money might not seem like an issue in the face of the current Russian agression but it will become one once the necessary cuts to finance the arms purchases are revealed.

NATO wont disappear thanks to Putin but successive US administrations will be less and less willing and able to guarantee European security, especially if/when the conflict with China intensifies. The European countries will then have to make a decision. Pool their ressources together (as many of them are increasingly already doing in projects and military units) or keep Europe vulnerable.

News / Poland is the new military power of Europe. [275]

Well, masively compared to what they had before. They still have a lot, but still much less than during the Cold War.

News / Poland is the new military power of Europe. [275]


And the UK has to pay for the upkeep of its' nuclear weapons too from the same budget. It was both concerning and also admittedly rather gratifying to learn that both the French and British army are in no better shape than the Bundeswehr for fighting a huge conventional war.


To complete the picture, in the UK as well. Russian billionaires loved to spend their money there, and some seem to have had close ties to the Tory party. Not to mention how Russia won their first big disinformation campaign in the UK in 2016.

News / Poland is the new military power of Europe. [275]

Aside from our history probably due to the same reasons other European countries have downsized their military: Lack of a nearby threat and the wiah to spend money on other issues.

News / Poland is the new military power of Europe. [275]


For the record, West Germany spent more than 4% of its GDP on defence during the COld War and as a result had the strongest conventional army of all European NATO states.

We disarmed too much later on and are now no longer capable of sustaining a large war. But to be clear here, that is a mistake all Western countries except the USA made and even they massively reduced their capabilities.

News / Poland is the new military power of Europe. [275]

Poland is smart to invest in its' military. But as with all good things, overdoing it can become problematic or even unhealthy.

Russia is a serious security threat for Poland that is a fact. But it is also a fact that the war in Ukraine has greatly weakened the Russian military and it while it can be rebuilt, it most likely wont regain some advantages it previously held (like the incredible amount of artillery ammunition from Soviet stock piles, which it can hardly reproduce due to the economic cost of the war). So while it is prudent for Poland to buy military hardware, it should not happen to a degree that put its' financial solvency at risk.

Russia may or may not pose a threat to Poland depending on the outcome of its' invasion of Ukraine.

The demographic decline will however certainly become a huge challenge for Poland down the line (, 1 or 2 millions or even 5m might lessen the blow but not fundamentally change it).

Buying like 700 Himars (some sources claimed even more) and the highly questionable K2 project which will cost Polands many bns might do more harm than good.

Not that I mind that, a stronger Poland means more security at a cheaper price for Germany. My concern is though whether or not this is sustainable for Poland.

Off-Topic / Terms of Russian Surrender [116]


How many defenseless civilians were murdered in Butcha alone again? 400 or 500?

Germany paid the price for its crimes. Russia will too.

Off-Topic / Terms of Russian Surrender [116]

The OP forgot an important part: Russia must extradite all suspected war criminals. At least the highest ranks and most prominent figures of the regime and who represent them in media will have to stand trial. At a later date and once Russia has changed, it can prosecute the thousands of lower ranking culprits itself.

Those terms are otherwise tough, but Russia itself would massively benefit from such an outcome. It would no longer be lead by people who exploit and plunder it. It would no longer have to squander its' ressources on imperial pretensions, nuclear arsenals and so on. Instead it could focus on improving the life of its' citizen. Indoor plumbing for all might no longer be a pipe dream under such circumstances.

Off-Topic / Serbia etc. thread 3 [310]

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Off-Topic / Serbia etc. thread 3 [310]

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UK, Ireland / Poland will be wealthier than Britain by 2030 [45]


Why should I if it is relevant to the conversation? One if the reasons why the prospect of Poland catching up to the UK is even remotely feasible is due to the Brexit and the lasting economic damage it has caused to the UK which included a loss of wealth and diminished future growth prospects.

UK, Ireland / Poland will be wealthier than Britain by 2030 [45]

The best example for the folly of Brexit and the value of the EU for Poland.

Off-Topic / Serbia etc. thread 3 [310]

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News / EU, Germany, Euros and Poland. [54]

His mother was born in Germany according to an article I've read, her parents were from Poland. He has English and German citizenship and due to his father he would have been eglible to play for the Nigerian football team. Playing for Poland was never on the table for him. He did play for English youth teams and considered playing for them though.


Many still do. In 2021 it was close to 100.000.

News / EU, Germany, Euros and Poland. [54]

If anything Jamal is half-Nigerian. He and his mother were reportedly both born in Germany.

News / EU, Germany, Euros and Poland. [54]

That this article manages to bring up Germany's enviromental concerns regarding Polish projects along the Oder but fails to mention that huge enviromental disaster caused by Poland only a few months ago really is something else.

As for a leadership roles. Personally I am all for it if Poland can handle it. But as BB said, that means shouldering burdens. And I am not sure that the recent grain fiasco is supporting the idea that Poland is ready for this.

Law / The right to own guns: would you support such legislation in Poland? [2237]

@Novichok

Nonsense. Laws are quite effective when enforced properly, as evidenced by all the countries that do have proper gun laws. They do not work 100% because nothing works perfectly at all times in reality but they are a massive improvement over inaction.

Btw. There are also rules that are supposed to make sure that bad guys do not become police officers. While imperfect (particulary in the USA) no one in their right mind would suggest that there should be no regulations instead.

Law / The right to own guns: would you support such legislation in Poland? [2237]


Which is why most civilzed countries have laws that make it less likely that they fall into the wrong hands.

Law / The right to own guns: would you support such legislation in Poland? [2237]


Go into a full packed cinema and yell "fire" and then see how far your right to free speech gets you if there is a panic. Everybody recognizes that there are limits to what you can say. Even Trump may find out that his words have consequences. Saying that we have no freedom of speech because we are not permitted to engage in hate speech is like saying that we do not have sexual freedom because we are not allowed to sleep with underage girls. It says more about the person making this claim than about the society he criticizes.

Once again a non-argument.

Law / The right to own guns: would you support such legislation in Poland? [2237]

We have both access to gun and free speech in Europe We just realize that both come with responsibilities. The USA is warning example with its' gun nut culture and the attempted coup two years ago.

I could get a gun if I wanted to. All I'd need is joining a hunting association/ a sports club, undergo various background checks and safety training. I choose not to because guns do not interest me as a hobby and I'd put myself and my family at risk by doing so, so why bother?

Gun advocats have no arguments on their side. Hence they use either those that have been long-time debunked (as protection against nightly intruders) or make up some by linking it to "liberty". You are living in the USA, not Somalia. Not that Rich has any idea what freedom and democracy really are, judging by his comments about Russia and Ukraine.

Switzerland is a democracy par exellence and they have a very high gun ownership rate. In fact, arming their citizen is part of their defense doctrine But they are smart enough to make sure that only reliable people with training and above a certain age can get them.

Law / The right to own guns: would you support such legislation in Poland? [2237]


It is when you claim that they are representative of Europe when they are clearly not. The countries you selected make up less than 10 percent of Europe's population while mine make up 50. Are you familiar enough with basic math to understand which is a more meaningful selection?


Repeat after me. Most burglaries happen when no is at home. Guns usage against intruders is exceedingly rare. You are far more likely to hurt yourself or loved ones than any intruder. Trying to make yourself look tough won't change that. You are a pathetic man whose need for reassurance is more important than the safety of his family.

Law / The right to own guns: would you support such legislation in Poland? [2237]


They are really not, as I have shown you. You just cherry-picked the few countries that have higher burglary rates. Germany has around twice the population of all those European countries combined, but has a burglary rate of 105.

Besides as mentioned, guns as self-defence for burglaries are mostly a myth and are disproportionally more dangerous to the owner and his loved ones than to any hypothetical burglar.

Law / The right to own guns: would you support such legislation in Poland? [2237]


Why don't you mention that most European countries have a significantly lower burglary rate?

Germany: 105
Austria 110
Poland: 186
Netherland 249
Italy: 274
Span 306
France: 346
Belgium: 418
budgetdirect.com.au/home-contents-insurance/home-safety/home-security/global-burglary-rates.html#:~:text=The%20US%20has%20a%20high,through%20open%20windows%20and%20doors.

Btw. most burglaries happen when people are usually at work, not by nightly intruders: "Curiously, American researchers found that the most likely time for a burglary is not at night but between 10 am and 3 pm when a home is least likely to be occupied."

It would be interesting to know how many burglaries end with murder vs the number of people accidentally killed by guns.

Claiming that guns are useful for self-defense is long debunked myth anyway. Instead of an intruder you are most likely to never encounter you are more likely to accidentally injure or kill a family member.

latimes.com/opinion/story/2022-01-31/gun-defense-myth

In an analysis of victims of gun violence from 2007 to 2011, the Department of Justice found that people were nine times as likely to be injured or killed by a firearm rather than protected by them.

But enough of statistics. Let's just use some common sense. What's more likely? That someone will break into your home and threaten your family, or that a member of your family, in a moment of anger or drunkenness, will resort to wielding that same weapon against you? Or that in a moment of despair, a loved one will turn that easily accessible gun on themselves? Or that your 5-year-old, who knows exactly where you keep your gun, will accidentally shoot himself?

Certain behaviors - not wearing a seat belt and shoulder harness, or smoking cigarettes, for example - increase your risk of injury and death. Having a handgun in the home is no different. The presence of a gun in your home dramatically increases the risk of homicide, suicide and accidental deaths.

Checkmate.

Law / The right to own guns: would you support such legislation in Poland? [2237]

Unbelievable. And in the same state, people are allowed to drink beer only after they turn 21. The sheer madness of it.

Law / The right to own guns: would you support such legislation in Poland? [2237]


At least you were not one of the kids who accidentally shot another person.

edition.cnn.com/2014/08/26/us/arizona-girl-fatal-shooting-accident/index.html

But the fact that you seem to believe that owning a gun at an age when children are usually not allowed to drive or drink a beer is a good idea just shows how braim-washed you are. It is utterly bizarre.

It is really simple. Children should not have access to guns. Most people should not have access to guns. Follow those rules and you will feel and live much safer as any statistic will tell you. Australians learned that, and they are the toughest sons of b... out there.

Law / The right to own guns: would you support such legislation in Poland? [2237]


You mean statistics that show the USA leading in gun related violence and mass shootings in the Western world?


He is simply saying what any rational outside observer thinks. The only people who believe otherwise have been brain-washed by this American gun cult that defies rationality.

Common sense dictates that people should only have access to guns when they are mature (say at least 21 years old), pass thorough background checks, are mentally healthy and need them for a special task (as hunter, police officer or athletes). Those guns should be stored safely, so that no children get their hands on them.

If you live in a war zone, it may be prudent to own some hand grenades. But if not, you are usually not allowed to. People in Western countries do not live in lawless jungles that require weapons. In fact people who own guns are more likely to hurt their family than to protect them.

Law / The right to own guns: would you support such legislation in Poland? [2237]


Our families are already much safer than yours because there is no chance of our children shooting each other accidentally with a gun. They also do not have to practice emergency drills for mass shootings.


The American fascists have recently stormed Capitol and tried to overturn an election. Not like any citizens with guns tried to stop them.

Australia has shown that it is easy to get rid off the guns. Just follow their example and you will be much safer down the line. More guns do not deter crime or violence, they enhance it.

You would also have less police violence because your officers would not have to be on edge all the time.

Law / The right to own guns: would you support such legislation in Poland? [2237]

Just restrict gun ownership to police officers, hunters and athletes (with thorough background checks and regular checks if guns are atored safely) and your society will be much better off. Less gun violence, suicides, mass shootings and children killing others accidentally.

Law / The right to own guns: would you support such legislation in Poland? [2237]

More like trying to not paint everyone with the same brush.
No doubt there are some hardcore believers among those gun nuts, but I see no reason why they would form the majority.

Law / The right to own guns: would you support such legislation in Poland? [2237]

Or so they claim. Most of them are probably insecure p*ssies who need guns to feel tough. Faced with the prospect of getting into legal trouble, they'll fold quickly.