History / Terrible past for the Jews in Poland? [930]


It isn't a question. However I do believe private companies can employ who they want - you however seem to believe in quotas.

So, to repeat the question: If you favour any 'race laws' that may have existed in pre-War Poland, and believe that people who broke them "should be punished" for employing too many Jews, how would you determine who was a Jew and who was not a Jew, especially if that person didn't have any religious affiliation?

History / Terrible past for the Jews in Poland? [930]


The question is only whether or not it was legal and how you think your 'race laws' should have been implemented.


Quite. All I see is anti-semitic rhetoric done exceptionally badly.

Off topic, I notice Goof - rather strange, too..

Anyone would think you're trying to dodge the very reasonable question: If you favour any 'race laws' that may have existed in pre-War Poland, and believe that people who broke them "should be punished" for employing too many Jews, how would you determine who was a Jew and who was not a Jew, especially if that person didn't have any religious affiliation?

History / Terrible past for the Jews in Poland? [930]

So in effect, you're suggesting that you approve of legislation restricting Jews from entering certain jobs. Despite having said there was no real oppression.

How would you determine who was a Jew and who was not a Jew, especially if that person didn't have any religious affiliation?

History / Terrible past for the Jews in Poland? [930]


Goof that link has nothing whatsoever to do with your assertion about:


. Nothing whatsoever. Not relevant to the thread either.


With pleasure and here it is.
You say:


But staggeringly, you also say that restrictive laws against Jewish people were correct.

Interestingly, you give no examples of


but can't cite (despite having been asked) any law that was being broken by the Polish Jews as a whole or suggest (despite having been asked) the means in which they


It seems you are just pulling things from somewhere dark and most probably minging to high heaven.

History / Terrible past for the Jews in Poland? [930]

So now your comments are even foggier. You seem to believe that companies (both now in the UK and then in the Second Republic) should have been forced to hire people on 'racial' grounds - specifically that Jewish Poles should have been forced to employ Catholic Poles (though you're silent on whether that should have worked both ways).

You really do seem happy about the idea that some people in Poland should be second-class citizens. And also you say that oppression never happened!

Do make your mind up, Goof!

History / Terrible past for the Jews in Poland? [930]

"what I beleive is that race laws should be respected" What 'race laws' would that be?


" in the Uk for an example an employer lika ASDA or Tesco is obliged by law to employ a % of whites, blacks, asians etc to not seem racis"

No they aren't! The law merely states that they have to hire people regardless of certain things - the exact opposite of what you're saying. What you are actually saying is that Jewish people should have been obliged to employ non-Jews. Do you believe that catholic Poles should have been obliged to employ Jews or do you just favour a one way thing?


Either you've deliberately misunderstood or have genuine problems with comprehension. Unless of course you think that


was only estalished then and that institutional racism only appeared then and all was hunky dory before. I think that's called an


At least you acknowledge that the government of the Second Republic was racist (after the Marshall's death of course). This rather negates your earlier comment that there was no oppression.

You really do seem to think that Jews should have been somehow citizens of a second class :-(

History / Terrible past for the Jews in Poland? [930]


That's a huge assumption.


So is that.

You referred to "crimes committed", however we aren't talking about what you think should be a crime but what was specifically a crime. So far you've failed to give any examples. Also, you say something should be "punished by the law", but don't mention who (a person? a family? a village? a town?) or how they should be "punished". You also seem to think that a member of a group should be forced to employ members of another group. So basically, you're suggesting that Jews should have been second-class citizens...


There was no 'order' - any 'order' was brand new in 1918-20 and nobody alive even had grandparents who remembered anything otherwise.

History / Terrible past for the Jews in Poland? [930]


Now you're extirpating, and there's a name for people who do that. I've read all your posts and no mention of anything listed in the legal code as a 'crime'. Could you point out the criminal acta committed by the Jewish community as a whole that warranted that, as you said [quote-goofy_the_dog]they should be punished[/quote]?


Makes no difference, unless you think Mr Kowalski living at number 5 had more rights to cultural integrity than Mr Kaplan at number 7; that one was a first class citizen and the other wasn't. Do you think that?

History / Terrible past for the Jews in Poland? [930]

Now you're trying victim-blaming for 700 years of oppression.


So precisely what 'crimes' do you think the pre-war Jewish community were committing?

An interesting gem of reasoning here too:


Aside from you (a declared admirer of Dmowski and his vicious gang of Endeks) trying to extirpate someone's religious heritage, do you also think that Poles (whether Catholic, Jewish, Protestant, Muslim or Orthodox) should have "integrated" during the years of partition and intermarried, converting their children to whatever religion predominated in that zabor?

History / Terrible past for the Jews in Poland? [930]

Now you're trying victim-blaming for 700 years of oppression.


So precisely what 'crimes' do you think the pre-war Jewish community were committing?

History / Terrible past for the Jews in Poland? [930]

And then you were trying to introduce Wolyn as a red herring.

Lets get this straight. One moment you try to talk about:


and a few minutes later come out with:


. so in effect you're saying that there was no oppression of the Jews as well as saying that the oppression of the Jews was right. Which of those conflicting steatements was a lie?

History / Terrible past for the Jews in Poland? [930]

That isn't in any way an answer to the simple question that arises from your statement relating to the past of the Jews in Poland:


So, how do you think:


?

Feel free to report it. It's all in context, all on topic, and all using (unlike some of the insults you've inarticulately hurled) in very moderate language. Your words that Jewish Poles "should be punished" are now out there, showing on a seach engine and not going away any time soon...

History / Terrible past for the Jews in Poland? [930]


Somehow I doubt you're up to scratch on its history and route to Germany, however that's very much going off topic. The depressing but interesting thing is how you propose the Jews:


and whether or not you really think that:

History / Terrible past for the Jews in Poland? [930]


I wonder if you think that tawdry document originated in Germany or had appeared in other places first...
Anyway, it would be interesting to know what your plans are and by what methods you think:

History / Terrible past for the Jews in Poland? [930]


Before then and afterwards - which is what we were talking about. However much you try to dodge the issue.


So you're supporting restrictions on whay Jews could or couldn't do? Yes


And you say there was never oppression...

History / Terrible past for the Jews in Poland? [930]


All of those have sadly been seen among the Jewish population of Poland. Within living memory.


Again wrong. Check out the meaning of oppression. Discrimination too. Glad to see you're trying to be politically correct though. Albeit in a kind of Ben Elton 80s 'right-on' way.


Plenty of Polish language fora if you have trouble with English.

Anyway, I'm intrigued. You say:


so what 'punishment' exactly are you proposing?

History / Terrible past for the Jews in Poland? [930]


That's quite an extreme statement which begs certain questions. Whether if fact any part of society had "decided to take over" any branch of the economy, whether any other group, perhaps the majority group, had ever done the same and the biggest question of all what type of punishment you would recommend....


Nope. Perhaps you think people should only read propaganda that fits your views that:


.
Hey, you said there was no real oppression and now you're proposing it.


Probably I understand it more cogently than your own jejeune interpretation, should one exist. It seems your views are not only at variance with most people outside PL, but also with most educated people within the country too.

History / Terrible past for the Jews in Poland? [930]


Never see either.

And yes, Dmowski is very misunderstood by pseudopatrioci. Your comments interesting mirror the anti-semitic reification of victim-mentality among some sectors of society.


There you go again. Perhaps you'd approve of excluding or imposing quotas on Jewish Poles entering certain spheres of life.

And you say there was no oppression...

History / Terrible past for the Jews in Poland? [930]


Well, there are plenty of Polish language fora if you don't enjoy discussions with 'foreigners' albeit ones who've spent far longer in PL than yourself.



So-called??? Yes, there was opression. The number of recorded incidents was huge and nothing you can say could ever whitewash that.


Understood as opression and racism.


Really? Aside from the unspoken assumption that everyone in Poland shares your view on Dmowski, which they very much do not, it seems staggering that you think the "right to talk about" a topic on here is predicated by ethnicity. As I say there are plenty of Polish language fora, however unless you stuck to the Dmowski-ist pseudopatrioci fora you would find equally coherent opposition to your views there too.

History / Terrible past for the Jews in Poland? [930]


In what what does that detract from any other incident, restriction or oppression? It's as if you're saying that bad stuff didn't ever happen since there was good stuff written down on paper!


That depends on the person, doesn't it. You're also attempting to reify one specific concept of nationality (vigorously debated in PL, by the way).


Entirely an irrelevance since we aren't talking about the UK, though worth reminding you that there were always far fewer fascists than on the Wisla - do learn some history rather than just listening to Dmowski-ist propaganda.

History / Terrible past for the Jews in Poland? [930]


Indeed, despite prejudices in Germany and Austria existing far longer and the ideological roots of that movement preceding WW1 by many years. There's a strong parallel with some of the PF Brownshirts sniping about events between 1948 and 1956 as an attempt to distract from the darker chapters in the 700 years of history that preceded that.

History / Terrible past for the Jews in Poland? [930]


Spot on. And worse that some people pretend that is somehow relevant to issues of prejudice during the other 90% of Poland's history.

Real Estate / How much is rent in Katowice? [15]

This will help you:
gumtree.pl/fp-mieszkania-i-domy-do-wynajecia/katowice/c9008l3200285
Be sure to select 'wlasciciel' rather than 'agencja' to avoid agents wanting their cut.
You will see that flats in Katowice are very cheap, including around ul. Francuska.

You don't mention budget etc, however this:
nocowanie.pl/noclegi/katowice/sortuj/tanie-noclegi
lists some very cheap places to stay for a week or so in Katowice while you look.

History / Poles should emulate Jews? [153]


Now that's something the Poles have traditionally had to be good at. Both of those things.


Both of them tyrants, both of them hated people who fitted the two ethnic descriptions in the thread title :-(

Food / British food products in Poland? [334]

If anyone's in or near Warsaw and wants to buy British food, there's a special event at Auchan in £omianki this Saturday. I get back home to PL that morning and since it's just up the road will definitely go and see what freebies they give out:


facebook/events/1627073070855990/

Intriguing about the "photo with The Queen" - there's no shortage of queens in Warsaw but I doubt HM herself is coming, but at least we can see Tiffin serving tiffin.. I can live without ever regretting not watching Kevin Aiston assembling a ploughman's lunch, although as celebrity Brits in Poland go he's probably the best choice. In any case, Nigel Kennedy's probably too expensive, Rula Lenska too Polish to be exotic in £omianki and Norman Davies too busy...

History / Poles should emulate Jews? [153]


Should people who are both of those things emulate themselves?

Genealogy / Adopted from Poland; trying to find my biological parents [99]

Yes, there are lots of people with that surname in PL - in fact I know a couple of families with that name, one where there were adoptions. PM me with the part of Poland in case that's not a coincidence.

History / Origins of Polish Slavs [139]


There was no 'us' 10,000 years ago. No European culture has survived that long. DNA is an irelevance and migration is part of human history.


No one group of inhabitants has any more or less a claim than another after a generation or so passes.


True colours showing and a familiar writing style...

History / Origins of Polish Slavs [139]


It isn't "the major European culture" and I see nobody "insinuating" anything. Nobody suggests the word comes from English ("the major European" language) by the way. The English word comes from medieval Latin (formerly "the major European" language) who took their word for slave (slavus) from the Balkans - probably from a proto-Slavonic root though some etymologists suggest the Greek sklabos.

DNA haplogroups, by the way, have no relevance whatsoever on culture, language, human personalities, national characteristics or rights over a place. The origins of Slavic people are far more complex than just the R1a1a7 - so we can say that no, Poles (or any culture we can relate to any modern European group) did not exist


ago.

Law / Opening a Polish Bank Account by a foreigner in Poland. Recommendations. [299]


Try Nordea.


Very much so, especially outside cities.


They are all government regulated


Commercial or domestic?