News / Poland's post-election political scene [4080]


Another day = a fresh (?! -- rather not because it stinks!) batch of Delphic PiS-bashery. So what else is new? (LOL!)

News / The dossier of TW "Bolek" - Poland's IPN assisted by police enters the home of the late general Kiszczak [306]


There probably is some such procedure (because every country has to have contingency plans) but I don't know what it is called. It may just be an informal practice of someone higher up phoning a TV station, publisher, etc. and "strongly suggesting "that some item should be suppressed. IPN published a book on the Wałęsa-Bolek issue but for 8 years of the PO regime it was kept in IPN storage and not circulated. Was it the PM's office, culture minister, interior ministry that intervened? Who knows?

News / The dossier of TW "Bolek" - Poland's IPN assisted by police enters the home of the late general Kiszczak [306]


During the initial S period nobody ever mentioned the Soviets, except for one time. At the S congress in 1981 S issued an appeal to trade unionists in the Soviet bloc to set up theri onw independent unions. Let's remmebr that was the cold war period and all kinds of crisscrossing, mainly clandestine lines of communication were buzzing. I wouldn't be surprised if W through Church channels was plugged into the White House, Maybe we'll never know. If W had been a apid informer, those links ended in 1976. What made him join the dissident Free TUs at that time? Once S was legalised and ticking over, he surely was no longer in the SB's pay and clearly basked in the popularity and esteem he enjoyod amongst Polish workers, the Church and society in general as well as the fame of being sought after and interviewed by Western rerorters. The Nobel Prize firmly entrenched him on the anti-communist side of the barricade.

Bear in mind one thing. Average people, even avid news followers, know very little of what is really going on -- maybe 10-15%. The important things, their mechanics and ramifcations are not revealed at cermeonies, pressers or in speeches.Things are thrashed out, alliances formed and deals struck behind the scenes.Politicians and journalists know a bit more, maybe 20-25%. The most knowledge is possessed by historians but usually only many years after the fact, and still that is rarely ever the whole truth. The real instigators of the JFK assassination may never be known. Spokojnej nocy!

News / The dossier of TW "Bolek" - Poland's IPN assisted by police enters the home of the late general Kiszczak [306]


More and more information on the Wałęsa affair is coming out. Do you think those who claim they were harmed by his sntiching like Jagielski and Szyler are lying?

If W. got forced into it, he seems to have adjusted and liked the idea of stipends of 500 to 1500 zł flowing in from time to time. It has been said that he broke off only after the SB stopped paying. One commentator specualrted that W. was perceived mainly as a single-task informer to help pacify the post 1970 rumblings. Later his services became less valuable. Who knows? The handwriting experts have yet to speak out. I am prepared to accept any verdict with no preconceived expecations. May the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth fall where it may. Wałęsa's reptuaion is up to the challenge and he will not lose his hero status.

News / Poland's post-election political scene [4080]


You are repeating the il Papa Tedesca (the Gertman pope) nonsense spread by Italian communists and reinforced by play "The Envoy" or something?) by a German writer whose name I don't remember. That lie made the rounds of all commies, leftists, anti-clericals and Jews in Europe. In actuality, Pius XII helped protect and shelter Jews as far as he could. Had he gone overboard, Herr Hitler would have "appointed" a more compliant successor. Not everything was so black and white, esp. amid the convoluted complexities of WW2.

Please back to the topic

News / The dossier of TW "Bolek" - Poland's IPN assisted by police enters the home of the late general Kiszczak [306]


Never experienced such an ultimatum. But in the '70s I was once approached by an Edmund Szot (perhaps the dad of the Paweł Szot reporting for TVP these days) and asked seemingly off-the-cuff whether I knew if any Polonian students in Poland listened to RFE and such. He used the typical malarkey about how he was a Polish patriot defending his country against enemies, etc. No remuneration was offered, I said I knew nothing of the sort and that was the end of it.

It's hard to say what I would have done if faced with an ultimatum like the one you described, but in general I find even the sntichery to mods on PF (so eagerly engaged in by your guru) highly distateful. Probably I would haev decided to return home. One can serve Polonia in America as well.


The SB thing is małe piwo. Wałęsa's main crime is derailing decommunisation/lustration in 1992. Kaczyński's party at that time was the only one WITH NOT A SINGLE EX-COMMIE OR INFORMER IN THEIR RANKS. That should tell you somehing about his feelings for Wałęsa. Guess which party had the most: SLD and UD which is not surprising -- reds and pinkos. What could poor Kaczyński do against a band of "Nocna zmiana" anti-heroes including Kuroń, Tusk, Kwaśniewski, Moczulski, Pawlak and others -- all veteran RT clique members,the wheeler-dealers of III RP?

News / The dossier of TW "Bolek" - Poland's IPN assisted by police enters the home of the late general Kiszczak [306]


Designed? So it's all a fabrication? Give us your KOD-ite narration on this. Not concenring imagined plots, designs and possible political consequences at present but focusing on Wałęsa's actual behaviour.

**Was he 100% lily pure and never had anything to do with the commies so Kiszczak wanted to get even and frame him.
**Was he a paid informer the whole time and should be relegated to the trash heap of history (Macierewicz says so).
**Was be blackmailed or coerced into collaborating but broke with his oppressors and went on to become a national hero.
**Or some other super-erudite Delphic version?

News / The dossier of TW "Bolek" - Poland's IPN assisted by police enters the home of the late general Kiszczak [306]


No-one needs to read it, knowing it was KOR lackey Frasyniuk writing in Lis' nasty rag. All predictable Michnikite b*llocks!

News / The dossier of TW "Bolek" - Poland's IPN assisted by police enters the home of the late general Kiszczak [306]


I follow no line. You are the one parroting the KOD-ites,your glaring guru and the Platformer losers.
All your argumentation steers clear of the all-powerful "układ", the RT clique, the foreign-serving pinko-red establishment, the real shakers and movers of III RP. The motley "Nocna zmiana" crew clearly show who they actually are. To bamboozle the common folk they keep trumpeting 26 years of freedom and democracy as long as the clique get to hold and pull all the strings. Yes, Poles are now "free" to travel and work as street-sweepers in Madrid, child-minders in Manchester or dish-washers in Hamburg.

News / The dossier of TW "Bolek" - Poland's IPN assisted by police enters the home of the late general Kiszczak [306]


Maybe the pinko-red-foreign-serving KOD-ite "haves" should see to it that the "have-nots" also enjoy some of the benefits of transformation. After all, one can never rule out the Bastille option.

News / The dossier of TW "Bolek" - Poland's IPN assisted by police enters the home of the late general Kiszczak [306]


No, it fell, because it ran afoul of the roundtable clique -- the SLD reds and UD pinkos -- the core of today's trough-defending movement.

News / The dossier of TW "Bolek" - Poland's IPN assisted by police enters the home of the late general Kiszczak [306]


Call it what you like, but economically and propaganda-wise Poland remains in the grip of the same parasitic minority round table mafia who have undeservedly lived in the lap of luxury while the rest of the nation has been barely scraping by.

Language / Polish language would look better written in Cyrillic Script? [212]


I disagree. Urkainian would look better written in the Latin alphabet as that would push it away from Cyrillic Russian. The Czech letters č, š
ž could replace the ч, ш and ж respectively, the Polish Ł could serve as the Ukrainian hard L and palatalisaiton could be indicated with a Polish-style acute accent (ć, ń, ś, ź) or an apostrophe (c', n', s', z').

News / The dossier of TW "Bolek" - Poland's IPN assisted by police enters the home of the late general Kiszczak [306]


Because of the parliamentary coup, lustration was not carried out and Poland remains in the clutches of the same round table mafia. That clique accounting for some 10-15% of Polish society have profited the most from the transformation. The bulk of the nation can work at Biedronka, provide cheap manpower to assemble foreign products and are even free to travel to dead-end jobs in the British Isles and Germany. And all because the anti-heroes of "Nocna zmiana" went into a panic over what their police files contained. The three major failures of III RP have been: the lack of lustration/verification, the lack of re-privatisation and the destruction of Poland's industrial assets under the guise of "privatisation".

News / The dossier of TW "Bolek" - Poland's IPN assisted by police enters the home of the late general Kiszczak [306]


You've forgotten to mention that in a short time the Olszwewski govt had stabilised finances, stopped robber-privatisation, prepared a reprivatisation, desovietised the Polish armed forces, sent the Soviet occupation army home and wanted to build a healthy free Poland based on people free of Soviet-era, secret-police connections. The key players of "Nocna zmiana", the roundtable mafia, trembled in fear that they stood to lose their undeserved power, perks and privileges and moved to protect them. The rest is history.

News / Poland's post-election political scene [4080]


Wishful thinking, eh? Sounds like your parroting Delph again. No original thoughts?

News / The dossier of TW "Bolek" - Poland's IPN assisted by police enters the home of the late general Kiszczak [306]


You haven't watched "Nocna zmiana" then. Get a native speaker to translate it for you. It'll be a real eye-opener how such unlikely bedfellows met in a backroom to prevent the publication of the files and save their behinds.

News / Poland's post-election political scene [4080]


Your so boringly predictable. Suffice it that your headline includes Duda, Szydło or Kaczyński and everyone knows it's gonna be more bile, vitriol and crap, more grumbling, b*thcing, whining and whinging....

How about some variety for a change! Unelss you're getting paid for each such entry in which case: mocno przepraszam! Never mess with someone's livelihood!

News / The dossier of TW "Bolek" - Poland's IPN assisted by police enters the home of the late general Kiszczak [306]


Your revisionism is glossing over the May 1992 coup, the only such assault in free Poland. It was then that the final battle lines were drawn up with true patriots the Kacyzńskis, Macierewicz, Gwiazda, Walentynowicz, Wyszkowski and others on the patriotic side of the barricade opposed by Wałęsa's nocturnal plotters. Normayll Catholic patriot Wałęsa had far more in common with the first group than with ex-commies and leftist Jewish agnostics but for one thing: fear of exposure. That wholly extraneous factor has skewed the Polish political scene ever since.

News / The dossier of TW "Bolek" - Poland's IPN assisted by police enters the home of the late general Kiszczak [306]


The Kaczyńskis masterminded the Wałęsa presidency. It was Wałęsa's 1992 folly that caused the estrangement. Too bad because if Wałęsa had fessed up and others did as well, Poland might have had genuine lustration and be done with it. Instead we've got the anomaly of a Polish Catholic trade-union activist in bed with agnostic, non-gentile big city intellectuals, bankers and foreign-interest groups. The only cement holding that motley gang together is fear of exposure and hatred towards those demanding historical truth. A very sick situation to say the least!

News / The dossier of TW "Bolek" - Poland's IPN assisted by police enters the home of the late general Kiszczak [306]


Not a broad section fo society but a motley collection of tinhorn politicians sh*itting bricks in fear of what the police files would expose them for.

Recommunsation? Indeed, that's what happened next. The ex-commies created a govt the following year and in 1995 a PZPR Central Committee member became president. People around the globe thought Poles should have their heads examined. Voting commies into office a mere four years after toppling communism!?

News / The dossier of TW "Bolek" - Poland's IPN assisted by police enters the home of the late general Kiszczak [306]


The best example was 1992 and the overthrow of the Olszewski govt. Wałęsa huddled with his Soldiarirty mates, ex-PZPR types, right-wing Catholics, Polish nationalists, Jewish agnostics from KOR and peasant activists and conspired in a backroom to overthrow the government. Those strange bedfellow all had something to hide and wanted to prevent the opening of commie-era police files at all costs.

News / The dossier of TW "Bolek" - Poland's IPN assisted by police enters the home of the late general Kiszczak [306]


Don't know or have no opinion = undecided. You get that in every poll. They are the opinionless ones who shrink form saying for or agaisnt, yes or now. Unless there is also a unique highly subjective Delphine version of sociology where the "don't knows" are added to the option Delph happens to support. You coudl just as well have added them to those who believe W was an informer.


In fact I happened to be on duty at the time and it was a big story. You don't often get the president of a country admitting something like that and then reconsidering and forcing PAP to withdraw it.

When Macierewicz had implemented a Sejm resolution to open SB files, Wałęsa sent a statement to PAP to the effect that in 1970 he had signed "three or four documetns. I probabyl would have signed everything except betraying God and homeland to get out of there and be able to fight. I was never broken and never betrayed by ideals or mates." But he quickly had the statement withdrawn, mounted a motley back-room conspiracy of strange poltical bedfellows and proceeded to overthrow the Olszewski government. The rest if history! The interesting thign is that the battle-lines drawn up at the time have survived almost intact down to the present:

wiadomosci.wp.pl/kat,1041267,title,Lech-Walesa-niewolnik-Bolka,wid,18175293,wiadomosc.html

News / The dossier of TW "Bolek" - Poland's IPN assisted by police enters the home of the late general Kiszczak [306]


Please don't confuse me with the horse-blinkered tag team who spout the same old Michnikite-Petru-KOK BS like a broken record. I call the shots as I see them and defecate on party lines on principle.


Must be Delphian maths in which when something increases it's in decline, and 28% is more than half. Any other pseudo-science you have created?

News / Poland's post-election political scene [4080]


That's Delph and his tag team all over: either scrape up some insignificant bit of trivia or invent something to attack, mock, deride, discredit or slander Poland's most pro-Polish government ever.

FLASH - THIS JUST IN: The village of Żabno (Frogville) in the Lublin region (population 342) has just removed their PiS-linked sołtys (hamlet executive?) for drunkeness. HOLD THE BACK PAGE!

News / The dossier of TW "Bolek" - Poland's IPN assisted by police enters the home of the late general Kiszczak [306]


That's not my terminology, that's what they were called: Prawdziwi Polacy and lewica laicka. Ask anyone who was there. I interviewed Seweryn Jaworski who represneted the Polish patriotic wing of "S" at Huta Warszawa and togetehr with steelworkers workers resented the KOR-ites trying to hijack the "S" movement. So dont' kill the messenger!


The largest segment of Poles believe Wałęsa had been a secret police informer. When pollster IBRIS asked people about it, 38% said they believe he was, 28% ruled out that possibiltiy and over 33% didn't know or had no opinion.

zdania.

News / The dossier of TW "Bolek" - Poland's IPN assisted by police enters the home of the late general Kiszczak [306]


For the benefit of the johnny-come-latelies who have only read about all this, here is the an eye-witness historical lowdown:
**Already during the 1980-81 Solidarity carnival sporadic friction between the soft-on-commies seuclar left (mainly KOR-ites and non-gentiles) and the True Poles (patriotic, Catholic) faction;
'*Martial law vicitmised the entrie Solidarity-dissident camp and the differences temporarily all but disappeared;
''After freedom was won, in May 1990 Wałęsa declared his "war at the top" against the KOR/pro-KOR wing who felt he had done his thing, should be a good boy and run along off to Gdańsk so they could run things undisturbed;

**June 1992 and the fear of exposure (the SB files) united a motley collection odd bedfellows -- Soldiarity activists, KOR-ites, Social Democrats (still not called SLD), PSL (peasants), KPN (nationalists) and Catholic rightists (ZChN) in a parliamentary coup.

The pro- and anti-lustration battle lines drawn on that occasion 24 years ago have largely remained intact to this day. Those who themsleves have things to hide continue to defend Wałęsa and effectively want to have the dirt swept under the carpet. And that also explains why certain people are on which side of the barricade in the latest Wałęsa affair.

News / The dossier of TW "Bolek" - Poland's IPN assisted by police enters the home of the late general Kiszczak [306]


The KOD-tie, Michnikite and Delphic hyenas are salivating at the prospect of once again trying to discredit the pro-Polish government and suppress historical truth.

News / Poland's post-election political scene [4080]


Życzeniowe myślenie - Wishful thinking. Wish on, me lad, it doesn't cost a thing!

News / The dossier of TW "Bolek" - Poland's IPN assisted by police enters the home of the late general Kiszczak [306]


What one arth is POS? Polish Oddball Society?


Must every utterance of yours be bent and twisted to accommodate your PiS-bashing penchant?! No-one wants to deny or destroy his achievements but historical truth must prevail. Are generations of school youth to learn a prrettified, hagiographic version of Polish history? PO-style propaganda tehcniques, censorship (they suppressed the IPN book on Wałęsa for 8 years of their rule), manipulation and sweeping things under the carpet is actually quite a mediaeval approach to history and certainly not worthy of a party claiming to be so "modern".

It's been known for years that Wałęsa signed things (he has admitted that time and again) but, he explained, only to get the SB off his back and get released. Even if he actually collaborated and informed on mates for money, that was a momentary human weakness of a simple country boy out of a job with a large family to support. Even assuming the latter hypothesis, at some point, like Saul on the road to Damascus, he saw the light, broke with his past and went on to become a key player in the peaceful overthrow of communism which led to the collapse of the Soviet Union itself. No-one is denying his role in that.

Wałęsa is not helping himself at present by thrashing about, changing his narration and introducing new threads (helping commie agent in tough financial straits?!). He has had such an eventful life that it's conceivable he himself has forgotten or mixed up many of the details of 1970-76. After all, that was close on half a century ago.