Torq
12 Jan 2024
Torq
12 Jan 2024
History / Pol-Shorpy Photo Thread [950]
@Bobko
Very interesting, thank you!
This is a bit strange though...
... four years for espionage, as a high rank officer, during war? The judge was rather lenient there, wasn't he?
@Bobko
Very interesting, thank you!
This is a bit strange though...
In 1948 he was sentenced to 4 years in prison.
... four years for espionage, as a high rank officer, during war? The judge was rather lenient there, wasn't he?
Torq
12 Jan 2024
History / Pol-Shorpy Photo Thread [950]
I do. And rest assured, I'm not the only one.
What?
Nobody remembers about it anymore
I do. And rest assured, I'm not the only one.
nobody in Poland really wants Moroccans
What?
Torq
12 Jan 2024
History / Pol-Shorpy Photo Thread [950]
The Lion Has Landed: 2010
If there is one thing that Poles can appreciate, it is courage.
A huge cloud of volcanic dust covered the skies over Europe shortly before the funeral of president Lech Kaczyński, causing most scheduled flights all over the continent to be cancelled. Overwhelming majority of invited guests called off their visits but the Prime Minister of Morocco, the Most Honourable Abbas El Fassi, was having none of it. He ordered the pilot of a small Cessna 560 to take off from Rabat and fly at a low attitude, below the volcanic dust. He landed in Cracow, to the amazement of Balice Airport authorities and air traffic controllers, as the first foreign guest.
Nothing's forgotten, Moroccan Lion. Nothing's forgotten...
The Lion Has Landed: 2010
If there is one thing that Poles can appreciate, it is courage.
A huge cloud of volcanic dust covered the skies over Europe shortly before the funeral of president Lech Kaczyński, causing most scheduled flights all over the continent to be cancelled. Overwhelming majority of invited guests called off their visits but the Prime Minister of Morocco, the Most Honourable Abbas El Fassi, was having none of it. He ordered the pilot of a small Cessna 560 to take off from Rabat and fly at a low attitude, below the volcanic dust. He landed in Cracow, to the amazement of Balice Airport authorities and air traffic controllers, as the first foreign guest.
Nothing's forgotten, Moroccan Lion. Nothing's forgotten...
Torq
12 Jan 2024
News / How strongly are Poles sure that president Duda defend Poland's interests ? [265]
Well, guys, if Duda wants to pardon Wąsik and Kamiński again, then apparently he himself doesn't think that his first pardon was valid.
Well, guys, if Duda wants to pardon Wąsik and Kamiński again, then apparently he himself doesn't think that his first pardon was valid.
Torq
12 Jan 2024
History / Pol-Shorpy Photo Thread [950]
Give 'em hell, boys!: 1920
Commander-in-chief, marshal Józef Piłsudski, watches his infantry units marching to the front of Polish-Bolshevik war to defend Poland's newly regained independence.
Give 'em hell, boys!: 1920
Commander-in-chief, marshal Józef Piłsudski, watches his infantry units marching to the front of Polish-Bolshevik war to defend Poland's newly regained independence.
Torq
12 Jan 2024
History / Pol-Shorpy Photo Thread [950]
But you see, for some people no matter how many proofs, documents, books, eye-witness testimonies etc. there are, they will still cling to their hatred; that's what they felt their whole life, that's what they built their identity on, so they're not going to abandon it just like that only because of some silly things like facts or truth.
...and yet, they keep hating him all the same. You know this old saying: "every good deed must be properly punished".
The book is Russian, and to some extent benefits from Soviet archival resources
But you see, for some people no matter how many proofs, documents, books, eye-witness testimonies etc. there are, they will still cling to their hatred; that's what they felt their whole life, that's what they built their identity on, so they're not going to abandon it just like that only because of some silly things like facts or truth.
Without the voice of Jaruzelski (...) and his wild gambit, Solidarity would have been crushed.
...and yet, they keep hating him all the same. You know this old saying: "every good deed must be properly punished".
Torq
11 Jan 2024
History / Pol-Shorpy Photo Thread [950]
Small pearl: 2023
Not only big agglomerations of Poland are worth visiting, there are also many pearls among smaller cities and towns. Sandomierz, a city of merely 21,500 people, hides many secrets and treasures...
polskapogodzinach.pl/sandomierz-atrakcje-turystyczne/
Small pearl: 2023
Not only big agglomerations of Poland are worth visiting, there are also many pearls among smaller cities and towns. Sandomierz, a city of merely 21,500 people, hides many secrets and treasures...
polskapogodzinach.pl/sandomierz-atrakcje-turystyczne/
Torq
11 Jan 2024
History / Pol-Shorpy Photo Thread [950]
Frontline combat in a line unit was not necessarily a common experience, and he was decorated for his performance on the battlefield. Not exactly behaviour of a coward (which Grunni was suggesting).
Nor to me, but we can't expect all people to follow our beliefs. You can be a patriot of Poland and an atheist. Moreover, back then there were many people who believed in communism; it would be unwise to accuse all of them of bad will or insincerity.
What nonsense.
a common experience
Frontline combat in a line unit was not necessarily a common experience, and he was decorated for his performance on the battlefield. Not exactly behaviour of a coward (which Grunni was suggesting).
Not irrelevant to me
Nor to me, but we can't expect all people to follow our beliefs. You can be a patriot of Poland and an atheist. Moreover, back then there were many people who believed in communism; it would be unwise to accuse all of them of bad will or insincerity.
He betrayed Poland, his brotherhood in blood, faith and comrades in arms.
What nonsense.
Torq
11 Jan 2024
History / Pol-Shorpy Photo Thread [950]
That story doesn't hold water.
Jaruzelski was no coward. He fought on Eastern Front, weapon in hand - first line combat. Most people would sh*t themselves, break down and cry for their mums if they had to go through a quarter of what Jaruzelski was through.
There are people who didn't receive the gift of faith. They believe in neither God nor devil and they never will. The stories of devils and selling your soul are irrelevant to them; they want the good of their people and country here, on this earth.
He was too afraid to die, end of story.
That story doesn't hold water.
Jaruzelski was no coward. He fought on Eastern Front, weapon in hand - first line combat. Most people would sh*t themselves, break down and cry for their mums if they had to go through a quarter of what Jaruzelski was through.
communists, devil's offspring
There are people who didn't receive the gift of faith. They believe in neither God nor devil and they never will. The stories of devils and selling your soul are irrelevant to them; they want the good of their people and country here, on this earth.
Torq
11 Jan 2024
History / Pol-Shorpy Photo Thread [950]
@Iron @Grunni
Yes, sure. Or maybe (just maybe) the guy was a Polish patriot and his gambit worked. There are credible sources and plenty of witnesses still alive to support this version.
@Iron @Grunni
Yes, sure. Or maybe (just maybe) the guy was a Polish patriot and his gambit worked. There are credible sources and plenty of witnesses still alive to support this version.
Torq
11 Jan 2024
History / Pol-Shorpy Photo Thread [950]
Believe what you want, Iron, but think about this: if Jaruzelski was such a villain as you think, then why didn't he drown Solidarność in blood? He could easily have done that.
Why did he take the army out of their barracks, together with all their artillery, in December - they surely didn't fight Solidarność or Polish people; it would have been a massacre if that had been the plan.
That just doesn't make sense.
Believe what you want, Iron, but think about this: if Jaruzelski was such a villain as you think, then why didn't he drown Solidarność in blood? He could easily have done that.
Why did he take the army out of their barracks, together with all their artillery, in December - they surely didn't fight Solidarność or Polish people; it would have been a massacre if that had been the plan.
That just doesn't make sense.
Torq
11 Jan 2024
History / Pol-Shorpy Photo Thread [950]
Not at all. All of them officers, one of them even with PhD in maths (former Colonel, lecturer at WAT). I definitely wouldn't call them slow. :)
Did those honorable people not strike you a bit being on the slow side?
Not at all. All of them officers, one of them even with PhD in maths (former Colonel, lecturer at WAT). I definitely wouldn't call them slow. :)
Torq
11 Jan 2024
News / Army of Poland and other kin Slavic countries [39]
There are surprisingly few civilian casualties, considering the scale of the invasion and the intensity of fights. It was mentioned (with numbers and comparisons to other conflicts) many times in various threads.
Russians are not losing. Their economy is switched into war mode and they have larger population so in the long run, with waivering western support for Ukraine, it is very likely that they will win.
This is simply not true. You may not like Russians, you may wish them a humiliating defeat, but at least be fair.
if Russians focused more on fighting the Ukrainian army instead of murdering civilians
There are surprisingly few civilian casualties, considering the scale of the invasion and the intensity of fights. It was mentioned (with numbers and comparisons to other conflicts) many times in various threads.
they wouldn't be losing so badly
Russians are not losing. Their economy is switched into war mode and they have larger population so in the long run, with waivering western support for Ukraine, it is very likely that they will win.
can only enjoy success against unarmed population
This is simply not true. You may not like Russians, you may wish them a humiliating defeat, but at least be fair.
Torq
11 Jan 2024
History / Pol-Shorpy Photo Thread [950]
Of course. East Germans were, for some reason, very eager to intervene and among Czechs you could probably also find quite a few still bearing a grudge for 1968.
I too spoke to honourable people, who are all saying the same thing, and I have no reason not to believe them.
I spoke with few people who said they saw army preparation on the German border
Of course. East Germans were, for some reason, very eager to intervene and among Czechs you could probably also find quite a few still bearing a grudge for 1968.
I too spoke to honourable people, who are all saying the same thing, and I have no reason not to believe them.
Torq
11 Jan 2024
History / Pol-Shorpy Photo Thread [950]
Well, Iron, there are well documented books and eye-witness testimonies to support what the General himself said and wrote about when he was still alive.
But hey, I suppose some people will just believe what they want to believe. Oh, well...
Well, Iron, there are well documented books and eye-witness testimonies to support what the General himself said and wrote about when he was still alive.
But hey, I suppose some people will just believe what they want to believe. Oh, well...
Torq
11 Jan 2024
History / Can a nation totally change its characteristics and national character throughout history? [79]
Don't mind Pawian, Bobi. He's a disgusting genocide justifier.
Being beaten and arrested, is a little bit different than to have your skull crushed by a sledgehammer after witnessing your wife and daughter being raped.
Don't mind Pawian, Bobi. He's a disgusting genocide justifier.
Torq
11 Jan 2024
History / Pol-Shorpy Photo Thread [950]
They still had enough strength, and our dear "allies" especially East Germans were more than eager to take part in the invasion.
60 thousand, compared to Polish half-a-million plus reservists. Also, the Russian troops in the barracks were "kindly asked" by nearby Polish units' commanders to stay there (and they did!). I know it from old army officers, who remember also very well what was happening in the Baltic Sea and along the borders in 1980-81.
Of course there were. Read the book, Iron. As I said, it's well researched and documented.
The Soviet Union had just failed in Afghanistan they were in no shape and had no taste for another intervention.
They still had enough strength, and our dear "allies" especially East Germans were more than eager to take part in the invasion.
there were plenty of Red Army troops stationed in Poland
60 thousand, compared to Polish half-a-million plus reservists. Also, the Russian troops in the barracks were "kindly asked" by nearby Polish units' commanders to stay there (and they did!). I know it from old army officers, who remember also very well what was happening in the Baltic Sea and along the borders in 1980-81.
there were no plans for the Soviets to intervene in Poland
Of course there were. Read the book, Iron. As I said, it's well researched and documented.
Torq
11 Jan 2024
News / How strongly are Poles sure that president Duda defend Poland's interests ? [265]
I don't think escalating was the purpose.
The purpose was to show Duda that he is not above the law and to send him a warning in case he might want to try to block the budget (by sending it to the Constitutional Tribunal) and dissolve the Sejm. In such case there will certainly be an escalation.
How is he a traitor? He is simply a different political option than PiS (pro-European instead of pro-American).
that show about Presidencial Palce was done on purpose to escalate the issue?
I don't think escalating was the purpose.
The purpose was to show Duda that he is not above the law and to send him a warning in case he might want to try to block the budget (by sending it to the Constitutional Tribunal) and dissolve the Sejm. In such case there will certainly be an escalation.
Tusk is a traitor
How is he a traitor? He is simply a different political option than PiS (pro-European instead of pro-American).
Torq
11 Jan 2024
News / How strongly are Poles sure that president Duda defend Poland's interests ? [265]
Convicted criminals should be arrested and imprisoned - there is no doubt about it, and it is not the president's role to keep them as "guests" in the presidential palace.
However...
... there is one thing that bothers me in all this story: we had so many scandals, so many politicians involved in corruption, shady "privatisation" deals, revealing classified information etc. etc. and none of them ended up in jail. Moreover, in overwhelming majority of cases there wasn't even any trial. And now, all of a sudden, two opposition MPs (who worked in the anti-corruption office) are hunted down and imprisoned like worst villains in the galaxy.
There is something suspicious about it...
Convicted criminals should be arrested and imprisoned - there is no doubt about it, and it is not the president's role to keep them as "guests" in the presidential palace.
However...
... there is one thing that bothers me in all this story: we had so many scandals, so many politicians involved in corruption, shady "privatisation" deals, revealing classified information etc. etc. and none of them ended up in jail. Moreover, in overwhelming majority of cases there wasn't even any trial. And now, all of a sudden, two opposition MPs (who worked in the anti-corruption office) are hunted down and imprisoned like worst villains in the galaxy.
There is something suspicious about it...
Torq
11 Jan 2024
History / Pol-Shorpy Photo Thread [950]
Jaruzelski's Gambit: 1981
In December 1981 "friendly" armies of Soviet Union, East Germany and Czechoslovakia stood at Polish borders ready to intervene and quench the Solidarity movement by drowning it in blood.
General Jaruzelski, before proclaiming the martial law, took out Polish army units out of their barracks to the training grounds all over Poland. They were supposed to practice and "get ready for certain actions". What actions? General Dachowski says plainly: "they went out of their barracks with all the artillery and rockets, so they certainly weren't preparing for restoring order inside cities".
Polish Army deployed in battle readiness in their training grounds was a deterrent to the "friendly" intervention. It made it harder. It made it potentially disastrous. Wojsko Polskie was preparing for the defense of their Fatherland.
Polish Army, about 500,000 strong with millions of reservists, was a force to be reckoned with. It was Jaruzelski's force de frappe. It was a game of sorts: Russians showed Jaruzelski their divisions and their strength, he showed them that he also has soldiers. That they might win but it certainly won't be easy. Eventually, the Soviets decided against the military intervention.
About all this, and more, you can read in the new book - Jaruzelski's Gambit...
... a well research and documented publication, much needed these days as there are still idiots claiming that the general (who died in 2014 and is no longer able to defend himself from cowards and their spiteful accusations) asked Soviets to intervene.
Jaruzelski's Gambit: 1981
In December 1981 "friendly" armies of Soviet Union, East Germany and Czechoslovakia stood at Polish borders ready to intervene and quench the Solidarity movement by drowning it in blood.
General Jaruzelski, before proclaiming the martial law, took out Polish army units out of their barracks to the training grounds all over Poland. They were supposed to practice and "get ready for certain actions". What actions? General Dachowski says plainly: "they went out of their barracks with all the artillery and rockets, so they certainly weren't preparing for restoring order inside cities".
Polish Army deployed in battle readiness in their training grounds was a deterrent to the "friendly" intervention. It made it harder. It made it potentially disastrous. Wojsko Polskie was preparing for the defense of their Fatherland.
Polish Army, about 500,000 strong with millions of reservists, was a force to be reckoned with. It was Jaruzelski's force de frappe. It was a game of sorts: Russians showed Jaruzelski their divisions and their strength, he showed them that he also has soldiers. That they might win but it certainly won't be easy. Eventually, the Soviets decided against the military intervention.
About all this, and more, you can read in the new book - Jaruzelski's Gambit...
... a well research and documented publication, much needed these days as there are still idiots claiming that the general (who died in 2014 and is no longer able to defend himself from cowards and their spiteful accusations) asked Soviets to intervene.
Torq
10 Jan 2024
News / How strongly are Poles sure that president Duda defend Poland's interests ? [265]
So, they could be pardoned before a proper court sentence? So the president can pardon them "na zapas"? Convenient! If that's the case then the legal system is indeed a mess.
The driver did everything by the book. He opened the door, passengers got out, he put blockades under the wheels and called for bus repair services. That was all well before the presidential column tried to leave.
Oh, well... let's see how it all ends.
pardon is about an act they are charged with not about a court ruling
So, they could be pardoned before a proper court sentence? So the president can pardon them "na zapas"? Convenient! If that's the case then the legal system is indeed a mess.
the driver could end up dead
The driver did everything by the book. He opened the door, passengers got out, he put blockades under the wheels and called for bus repair services. That was all well before the presidential column tried to leave.
Oh, well... let's see how it all ends.
Torq
10 Jan 2024
News / How strongly are Poles sure that president Duda defend Poland's interests ? [265]
You mean 2015? The sentence was appealable. Of course they were found guilty in both 2015 and 2023 but only the 2023 sentence is non-appealable (prawomocny) and that's when Duda can use his prerogative of pardon and end this nonsense.
WTF? Driver dead? For what? For his bus being broken and just standing there? What "attack on presidential column"? The bus stood there some time before the column tried to go through Belweder gate, so there was no direct contact. Trzaskowski in jail? What on earth for??? For being the president of the city in which buses break? Sorry, but you're not making any sense, Iron.
Even if the malfunction of the bus was not a coincidence (and it probably wasn't), then police/special forces have to be praised for the way they conducted the operation: the police had to enter the presidential palace to arrest the convicted criminals and ensuring that the president wasn't there when it happened was very reasonable.
If Duda hadn't decided to engage in this sad cabaret (most likely on Kaczyński's orders), none of this would have happened. PiS lost power in democratic elections, and they will either realise that or face all the legal consequences of their actions.
He and his wife have a summer house near Kartuzy, two small apartments in Sopot and about 300k euro in cash - hardly a Rotschild family! He's 66 years old, and he was the President of the European Council for five years (and Prime Minister of Poland before that). I'd say he's surprisingly poor considering all of the above.
they have been already pardoned
You mean 2015? The sentence was appealable. Of course they were found guilty in both 2015 and 2023 but only the 2023 sentence is non-appealable (prawomocny) and that's when Duda can use his prerogative of pardon and end this nonsense.
IF the presidential protection service were doing its job as if Poland was a serious country the diver would be dead, Trzaskowski in jail
WTF? Driver dead? For what? For his bus being broken and just standing there? What "attack on presidential column"? The bus stood there some time before the column tried to go through Belweder gate, so there was no direct contact. Trzaskowski in jail? What on earth for??? For being the president of the city in which buses break? Sorry, but you're not making any sense, Iron.
the fact you seem to be OK with that
Even if the malfunction of the bus was not a coincidence (and it probably wasn't), then police/special forces have to be praised for the way they conducted the operation: the police had to enter the presidential palace to arrest the convicted criminals and ensuring that the president wasn't there when it happened was very reasonable.
If Duda hadn't decided to engage in this sad cabaret (most likely on Kaczyński's orders), none of this would have happened. PiS lost power in democratic elections, and they will either realise that or face all the legal consequences of their actions.
Tusk is the richest of them all
He and his wife have a summer house near Kartuzy, two small apartments in Sopot and about 300k euro in cash - hardly a Rotschild family! He's 66 years old, and he was the President of the European Council for five years (and Prime Minister of Poland before that). I'd say he's surprisingly poor considering all of the above.
Torq
10 Jan 2024
History / Pol-Shorpy Photo Thread [950]
Sophisticated and perceptive. I hope your wife realises what gem she has at home!
a guy who has a red claw growing from his finger
Sophisticated and perceptive. I hope your wife realises what gem she has at home!
Torq
10 Jan 2024
News / How strongly are Poles sure that president Duda defend Poland's interests ? [265]
Marsz Moherów w obronie milionerów. xD
it will be a real Moher freak show
Marsz Moherów w obronie milionerów. xD
Torq
10 Jan 2024
News / How strongly are Poles sure that president Duda defend Poland's interests ? [265]
Heroes? They wanted to get rid of Lepper for Kaczyński, so they set up a provocation, but the whole operation was amateurish as f*ck and eventually it led to the downfall of PiS-Samoobrona-LPR government. Some heroes!
Police already entered the presidential palace. They were already arrested. No shots were fired.
Do keep up, Amiga.
CBA heroes
Heroes? They wanted to get rid of Lepper for Kaczyński, so they set up a provocation, but the whole operation was amateurish as f*ck and eventually it led to the downfall of PiS-Samoobrona-LPR government. Some heroes!
Tusk scared as f*ck of entering the presidential palace to arrest those two senators aka CBA heroes. They'll be met with bullets from GROM
Police already entered the presidential palace. They were already arrested. No shots were fired.
Do keep up, Amiga.
Torq
10 Jan 2024
News / How strongly are Poles sure that president Duda defend Poland's interests ? [265]
He is officialy the commander of the armed forces, but in reality it is more of a honorary title. If he ever even as much as thinks of using the army against Polish people, then there is a surprise in store for him. And I very much doubt if he is willing to go down Ceaușescu's way.
He controls the army
He is officialy the commander of the armed forces, but in reality it is more of a honorary title. If he ever even as much as thinks of using the army against Polish people, then there is a surprise in store for him. And I very much doubt if he is willing to go down Ceaușescu's way.
Torq
10 Jan 2024
Torq
10 Jan 2024
News / How strongly are Poles sure that president Duda defend Poland's interests ? [265]
Really? I think they've been convicted only recently, so NOW Duda can pardon them, and that's what he should instead of harboring convicted criminals in the presidential palace.
The passengers weren't there, I'm not sure about the driver. Such things happen, buses get broken.
First of all it reflects badly on Duda. He is the president, so he can pardon Wąsik and Kamiński properly. This whole sad circus with hiding them in the presidential palace is nothing short of ridiculous. Police did their job. Good for them. Kaczyński needs to get a grip, and come to terms with the electoral defeat of his party, or it will end badly for him.
i.e. court verdict on those two that had been already pardoned by the President
Really? I think they've been convicted only recently, so NOW Duda can pardon them, and that's what he should instead of harboring convicted criminals in the presidential palace.
it could end up very badly
The passengers weren't there, I'm not sure about the driver. Such things happen, buses get broken.
that is the President and sh't like that reflect badly on all of us and on Poland
First of all it reflects badly on Duda. He is the president, so he can pardon Wąsik and Kamiński properly. This whole sad circus with hiding them in the presidential palace is nothing short of ridiculous. Police did their job. Good for them. Kaczyński needs to get a grip, and come to terms with the electoral defeat of his party, or it will end badly for him.
Torq
10 Jan 2024