News / Sikorski doctrine - Eastern Europe under threat. Poland's foreign policy. [203]


That's true, MW. It is a complex issue. My point is that you cannot honestly be walling off someone as terrorists and dealing with others who behave the same way and say these are not terrorists, but our business partners. If someone wants to deal with Russia - please, go ahead. But instead of minding their own business big boys of this world are telling others who to deal with. I want to have tighter economical ties with Iran. I don't give a damn what America or Europe thinks of Iranians. But you see, they (US and EU) have the power to squeeze you if you get out of line. They explain this by making up boogie stories about Iranians. India and Pakistans gets nuclear stuff - that's Ok, but if Iran does - well, "they are crazy". Who are US and EU to claim somebody crazy after Iraq and Afghanistan? I wouldn't mention 1950-1993 period either. BB says that I profess conspiracy theories here. I quite don't see where I could have even slightly betrayed something I don't believe in. This is what I see.

What is your view on that, MediaWatch?

History / Poland in a Slavic Union/Alliance/Federation? [335]


Let's give those families guns and send them on a killing spree because they lost someone 70 years ago. Let them kill and then everything will be settled.


*Nathan takes a bomb and blows any common grounds. Waits for a wuss Ironside*.


Nobody thinks like these two morons.

News / Sikorski doctrine - Eastern Europe under threat. Poland's foreign policy. [203]


If this is what you think - fine, I am not trying to convince you otherwise.

News / Sikorski doctrine - Eastern Europe under threat. Poland's foreign policy. [203]


Belorus is just an example, BB. Where have you heard about anyone elected in a democratic country with 75% votes like in Russia or Belorus?


Yes. Have you heard how many not bloggers, but journalists have disappeared on the post-Soviet space, Ukraine included? In Russia alone from 1993 - over 300 journalists were killed. It is on average over 18 journalist a year murdered. I don't say a word about politicians, opposition, businessmen, owners of newspapers etc. Can you find me something similar in Iran?!

ifex.org/russia/2009/06/24/partial_justice/

The same thing occurs now in Ukraine.


Why do you turn personal, BB? Hitler was not alone as you said. We had nuts too and I don't deny it. The only difference is our nuts were at home. The other nuts, including Polish came over to where they didn't belong.


Well, when Stepan Bandera, the leader of future UPA, declared independance of Ukraine on June 30th, 1941, he was thrown into prison. I think that our Raum would have been somewhere else, nothing to do with life. Neither Nazis, nor Russians had life in mind.


Not exactly, but Germany was being squashed by the reparations and restrictions which were disproportionate and completely unfair.


BB, they won't be caught because they are the states. I recommend you "Warlord" movie (bad played and a bit boring), where it is all put out how it really is. Some scapegoat will always be there, but countries selling their weapons to whomever they wish is unstoppable. You know big boys were selling weapons to Libya just a few years ago, now they say that Ukraine and other states cannot sell their weapons because Libyans are "terrorists". The same goes elsewhere. They decide who is who: who is terrorist and who is not.



BB, I admire Germany and its people. You are amazing. Your country brought the greatest number of scientists, it produces almost everything and that everything is of the highest quality. Germany gave birth to great philosophers and composers. Today it is on the edge of the progress and is the engine that moves the EU. I am not sucking up. I truly admire your country. But some things which the EU does I don't agree with and I expressed my opinion. I don't know anything and you don't have to ridicule me with "the Wise". I don't see the EU policies being perfect, because they are not. And I don't agree that Hitler was the only one nut. It has nothing to do with Germany as a country today and its people.

News / Sikorski doctrine - Eastern Europe under threat. Poland's foreign policy. [203]


BB, are you really that naive? Recent elections in Belorus - there was more than 3/4 "support" for Lukashenko. And you really believe it? Now all the opposition leaders sit in prison and one, from what I heard is nowhere to be found.


That would only mean that in comparison to Russia, Iranians have at least a bit freedom in their media.


ONE??? Oh come on. You had thousands of nuts and beasts. Was there only Hitler to show off? Lebensraum alone had an army of nuts behind it.



;) Yeh, according to what history, BB?



Somehow it didn't secure Europe at the end of the 30s.


Well, France does to Russia and as I recall France is part of the EU. The same pertains to Germany. Embargoes on the chosen states perpetrated by the big boys is just a sham to exclude other, smaller countries from dealing with those restricted states. At the same time they are securing no competition for sale of the very guns which are later used to scare the sh*t out of the Westerner civilians and make Iran a bad boogieman. Here is just a few examples.


country-data.com/cgi-bin/query/r-5009.html

So, BB, it basically looks like "whenever we find a rationale we are good to go", but the rest of the world can't have that rationale (defense, humanitarian and other undercover reasonings). And then the rest are fed who is good and who is bad.

News / Sikorski doctrine - Eastern Europe under threat. Poland's foreign policy. [203]


And who those oppressor of Iranians that Ukrainians are friends of, BB?


And who are those people who forget recent history?
BB, you talk in riddles. You showed a picture of Iranians demanding democracy in their country and right away you say that you don't want to deal with religious nutters with nukes. When, on the other hand, there is a demonstration for democracy in Russia and people are beaten like cattle in the Red Square, you are happy to deal with areligious, amoral nutters with nukes. Double standards? Absolutely.


I don't see Russian Federation as any "looming" shadow when Iran/Iraq comes to be a major oil provider and the Eastern Europe finally stands on its feet. I am against any dictatorship in Iran (if this is what you implied by people who forget their history), but dictatorship in Iran came from the way Americans swindled their internal affairs upside down and as a result made possible the arrival of nutters into the power. Putting embargoes and making the country a sore of the Earth is not going remove the nutters from the power either. Recall Germany and what it became when it was pressed against the wall by Versaille - you had more nutters than the history of Europe in all times. So, by the ways of seclusion and economical pressure you are only putting gasoline to the fire, BB.

News / Sikorski doctrine - Eastern Europe under threat. Poland's foreign policy. [203]


I am against Russian leadership and I am not alone. I have never said that there shouldn't be economical or political ties with Russian Federation. All I meant they shouldn't be a leader in the Eastern Europe. It is unnatural as history have proven multiple times. Of course, it sounds ridiculous at the present time when oil is on the mouth of everyone, but stronger relations between countries of Eastern Europe are able to turn that thing around once natural resources you are talking about are depleted. Personally, I think that the whole brouhaha in the Middle East with Iran and Afghanistan is a big present for Russians. It makes them the sole providers of oil to frozen from stupidity Europe which has nothing better to do than to grow opium in Afghanistan and prevent Iranians from selling Europe oil. If you look at things soberly, why is it so? What Iran have done to be treated like a scapegoat? It is to advantage of Europe to be dealing with Iran. But then where would be Russia as a leader in the Eastern Europe if there is oil only one country away from EU? The West can't let it happen since it needs Russia alive and in control. Let's make Iran a boogieman out of nothing, just because it wants to be as powerful as the rest bomb-makers. But nobody cares that setting up India with bombs is a direct threat to Iran as a country. The West will destroy the world as it did in Munich in 1938.


And he was or is? ;)


Well, Germany's policy can't, that's for sure. I am not proud of Ukrainian politics millions time more. But I am against it and someday I will be proven right.

News / Sikorski doctrine - Eastern Europe under threat. Poland's foreign policy. [203]


I hope and wish all the best to Poland and Germany and their relations, although politics and authenticity is something that doesn't fit my mind easily. I haven't said that Germany needs Poland for its relations with Russian Fed., it is just that BB thinks that Russia is the only leader in the region and the rest of the Slavs need it so much as a leader to properly represent themselves in front of good, old Europe. I disagree with that.

News / Sikorski doctrine - Eastern Europe under threat. Poland's foreign policy. [203]


I agree, it is not exactly the same. But I don't see that much difference either. There is always fight for power on any political area.


I very much doubt it, but even if (still, it is basically impossible) - what's the problem?


Well, BB, you clearly have no high opinion of Slavic countries besides Germany's beloved Russia. The West knows that as long as Russian Federation is the bully in the region it would be easy to manipulate the whole Eastern Europe to its own benefit. Slavs can come up with some Brussels of their own - let's say - Bratislava - a great center for a Slavic union. In my opinion, any presence of Russia is a sign of no viable competition. The region will remain a dumping site for European left-overs.


Do they agree in the EU all the time? Besides Slavic Union would be more of a confederation than a federation type structure as the EU seems to be. There won't be any "persuasive" pressures from the big boys in case there is a disagreement.


If Iceland agrees with Bulgaria, I don't see why neighboring countries like Ukraine and Poland should be difficult on agreement.


Of course, but this is only when too much is given up to the Union. In the Slavic Union each will have its own choice. Areas of defense, scientific cooperation, medecine might be more on a common solution grounds.


Why? It would be a third player.


We do. But where are the Celts now?
I have to go, but I will be here later, guys.

News / Sikorski doctrine - Eastern Europe under threat. Poland's foreign policy. [203]


You see, BB, who better than you might understand the exclusion of Russia from the Slavic Union. Without Russia we would have a NORMAL union of countries with equal, unpretentious say in various matters that might arise. With Russia it is impossible - it would drag everything into a totalitarian, undemocratic and non-progressive towards the good of the member-states. Russia is already a union of republics and it was a head of the Soviet Union of "equal" republics before. What did it bring, but the total destruction? Look at Eastern Germany: whatever you had there in 1989 was 10000 times worse here. So, Russia in the Slavic Union would be like a cancer on a beautiful orchid. And I don't wish it to my country or any other country in the future union.


I don't know what exactly the Ukrainian government said (usually it is full of wh*res), Seanus, but I will definitely find it out. It is a very interesting question. I know that many Ukrainian volunteers and people with past military experience went to Chechnia to help them defend their country's independance.

News / Sikorski doctrine - Eastern Europe under threat. Poland's foreign policy. [203]


Thanks, MW. Merry Christmas to you too. I actually celebrate double Christmas: on Dec. 25th and Jan. 7th :) One is never enough.


Thank you, BB, for a dose of cyanide in my morning coffee ;)


Why? According to Crowie, Germans are germanized Slavs, so the slavic can stay :)


Unacceptable. If Germany wants to be a part - it is always welcome, but Russia - not for money, pity, the end of the world, or any other reasons. Just an example: when Germany was being unified in the 19th century Austria -a clearly Germanic nation - was not taken into the union. Russian Federation is the same case. It seems to be mostly Slavic, but it has nothing to do with the spirit of Slavic countries. Since Serbia is not interested in Sarmatia without Russia, I propose Serbia to unite with their brothers into some other Slavic union # 2 (or they might have #1 to avoid the war)

News / Sikorski doctrine - Eastern Europe under threat. Poland's foreign policy. [203]


Great point, MediaWatch.

Language / Polish was chosen the HARDEST LANGUAGE in the world to learn... :D [1558]


Are you Sheldon from "Big Bang Theory"?

News / Sikorski doctrine - Eastern Europe under threat. Poland's foreign policy. [203]


I know, Seanus. Merry Christmas to you and your family!


Agreed.

News / Sikorski doctrine - Eastern Europe under threat. Poland's foreign policy. [203]


I am not in any way an expert on weapons, but from the reports in Iraq war it seems that whatever they use over there is far from being precise. In regards to attacking Poland as an US ally (if there would ever anything like that occur from Iranian initiative, which I doubt very much), don't you think that the first to go would have to be Israel? And do you have to have your own satellite to lead those rockets or these rockets use MapQuest? ;) Iran has nothing in the space as far as I know.

Convex, I completely agree that there is danger everywhere, but for Poland it is highly unlikely to be Iran IMHO.

News / Sikorski doctrine - Eastern Europe under threat. Poland's foreign policy. [203]


Frankly, I don't, but the way the current politics create threat when it is necessary and against only a certain list of target countries makes me adopt a pinch of this ridiculous reasoning.


Convex, the US troops which have the most modern weaponry are not able to shoot with precision from a helicopter and as a result kill civilians kilometers away from the target. Do you want to say that along the way of an impossible Iranian rocket's flight over the airspaces of the mentioned countries, the latter would tolerate even a slightest possibility of a hit against their own civilians? I deeply doubt that. Iran would be answered with a unison before Poland will open its eyelids.

News / Sikorski doctrine - Eastern Europe under threat. Poland's foreign policy. [203]

Europe is such a tiny chunk of land that when you begin to threaten Poland, you immediately threaten Iceland. Plus Poland is part of NATO (which wasn't ever really tested to stand for its members) and I don't see any sane reason to go after Poland with rockets flying across: Turkey, Bulgaria, Roumania, Ukraine in order to get to Poland. If the rockets start flying like that, then it is all over, convex.

P.S. It is fun for Great Satan to live on a remote island and meddle into the local affairs putting its allies in a precarious position.

News / What should Poland do with the problem of Belarus? [1800]


This is what infamous Bush and his clique was all about: too much thinking and not enough profits involved in "delving". Let's bomb and then write memoirs about how glorious we were. Only then we will be "delving".

Enjoy your carp - it is much easier to delve into a helpless fish.

News / Sikorski doctrine - Eastern Europe under threat. Poland's foreign policy. [203]


When in the world Iran ever attack Poland??? This is a typical food the Westerners are fed about the Middle East. Look at the US: Iraq is on the opposite side of the world and somehow it was more dangerous than North Korea which is a few thousand kilometers from the US border, but no one attacks them because of the weapons of mass destruction. Danger is not in weapons, but in as*-holes which are after money that can be made on the war: from invasion to rebuilding - billions of dollars.


I have an idea, because wondering Russia seems to scare you. Here you go: both Poland and Ukraine start beefing up security each claiming that the other is endangering its security. This way we will be beefed up with a good reason for that and Russia would be saved from too much wondering which can be painful on its brain.


Where did I make even the slightest, tiny-bitiest, micro-nanoniest suggestion towards that? Seani, please, don't invent stuff.


Why stealing when you can own them? Why have a middleman in form of Poland and waste a huge chunk of revenues when everything may be simplified with a nod of the West?


Seanus, do you really have trouble understanding what Borrka wrote? People might live in one country, but be completely unaware of the problems and the feelings of other countrymen from the opposite end. History may be learnt from books, but being a part of it through your grandparents, parents and oneself will make you much more knowledgeable on the issue than some dude from a far away country who came to live in Poland (even for a decade) even if he is a pro historian and ate all wisdoms. As Borrka said correctly - "it is in our veins" and I completely back that.

History / Tuchola in Poland - roots of Katyn? [220]


What for, nott? So I waste my time on someone like you who doesn't even give a f*ck to do some research before making a claim? It is useless. I lost my interest after your last post. It is like talking to c*** sokrates. This is my last post here.


Yes, it is exactly where Russians beat the crap out of Ukrainians and Swedes. I don't deny it a bit.
But do you understand how ridiculous you sound by claiming Poltava as a Russian city and then saying they were in the center of Ukraine? Can't you at least make up something credible, glue up nonsense in a way that will make it interesting to read your BS?

In addition, what did Germans do just 3 weeks after crossing the Oder in Peremyshel'? Answer that question and it might help you with the one you gave me. You have been had in just 3 weeks - the mighty army which needed no allies ;) You forgot, porbably, to use your tongues as a fighting tool. You would be, no doubt, victorious ;)


"In the United States Viktiuk is included in the category of "50 people in the world that shaped the second half of the twentieth century." Well, but you are the expert, right?! ;)


That's what I mean: you talk much, but what you are talking you cannot back up. It is like being an intellectual ho.


It would be my pleasure to talk to someone intelligent for a change. I am tired of this cr*p.


Why are you playing stupid? :) Be positive - lie till your pants drop - like c*** sokrates does. Learn to be a ho like him.


UPA had around 400,000 people in 1944 - not exactly soldiers, but better than 3 weeks Polish defense which had guns, tanks, planes, etc. in 1939 for sure. UPA wasn't blessed by huge British support which Poland received in form of weapons, food, hide-out for Polish government with money it collected over 20 years. Sometimes, when I read your cries over how Britain allegedly missed to invite your representative for the parade, it makes me laugh at the cheek you have towards the hand which fed you.


I am happy to be free and proud and greatful to all those who fell for my country. I am happy that there was no alliances I was thinking of before, because it would be even worse. So, it is really relieving.



Man :), you are something. Read my post before the last one and yours with c*** sokrates. Which ones carry hate and arrogance? Mine or yours and c***'s? Whatever you said about "natural inclination" only underlines it.





Peresopnitske Gospel was written in 1556-1561 and Ukrainian presidents take an oath on it during the inauguration. There is some "Chetiya" translation mentioned which was made in 1489 into old Ukrainian language. Currently there is no information about it online. So it makes even XV century.

uk.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9F%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%B5%D1%81%D0%BE%D0%BF%D0%BD%D0%B8%D1%86%D1%8C%D0%BA%D0%B5_%D0%84%D0%B2%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%B3%D0%B5%D0%BB%D1%96%D1%94

You know perfectly I can't fight with all c***s on PF. There are just a few, but it is quite handful. And, frankly, I am not interested. I am here to talk or to learn something new. If you think that it is amusing to be a c***, well, go ahead. I said what I wanted. If you are interested in a normal dialogue, then step up like a man.

History / Tuchola in Poland - roots of Katyn? [220]


Any source where Poltava means Russian Cossacks? ;) Damn, I thought you really know something ;) Ukrainian dialect spoken in Poltava is considered the true Ukrainian language and Ivan Kotlyarevsky who wrote a burlesque on Virgil's "Eneida" and is considered the first writer of modern Ukrainian language was born in Poltava. Some famous Ukrainians born in Poltava, you, Einstein:

Symon Petliura
Yurij Kondratiuk
Hryhorij Skovoroda
Mykola Hohol
Panas Myrnyj
Poltava is more Ukrainian than our capital :) Famous battle of Poltava where Ukrainian hetman Ivan Mazepa fought with Swedes against Russians occurred there. Any other city, man, but Poltava. Don't ridicule yourself.


Well, if opinion of Italian and American movie and theater critics, multiple international awards I mentioned is nothing to you, I have nothing else to say ;) This is the first time I hear than one has to be in Wikipedia to be somebody.


Where did you get that Taras Shevchenko was a founder of Ukrainian language?


You see the difference? You are not looking to learn, but to attack like a rabid dog. But before you do that - read carefully your Wikipedia, son :)


He was awarded Stalin Prize for making movies about WWII, more specifically his famous movie "Shchors". Because of that he was able to create movies and write with more freedom later. If you have a chance in-between trying to denigrate whatever I say to read "Ukraine in fire" writen by Dovzhenko, you will realize what a brave person he was and how he pushed Ukrainian idea through his cinema and literary works.


I don't have any pain. Science is a competition and you have not only to excel in discovery, but in presentation as well to be recognized.


Why a cheat? I pointed the most important of his work as a scientist. Whether it was supported by Stalin who wanted to live 140 years is very irrelevant to me showing Pennboy famous Ukrainians and our culture. Imagine that scientists in Stalin regime had to have the state's support to feed their families and to conduct a research. Just like today.


Right now expension of the database about Ukraine and its scientists, writers, artists,... is constantly growing and in the near future we will definitely be up-to-date.


I know, S. Krushelnytska was not only an amazing opera singer, but a wonderful person too.


Amazing people of great talent. You have something to be proud of, pal.


Wow, and that is the one who lies about Poltava and Shevchenko? You are more amazing than Modjeska and Negri ;) I don't blow achievements of my nation - I simply presented them. Show me where I exaggerated, please? I beg you to answer me these 3 points: Shevchenko-founder, Poltava-Russian Cossacks and my blowing out of proportions. Omission of answering them with honesty I am accepting as cowardness.

I was trying to be polite in regards to people mentioned by Pennboy, but you seem to ask me to be open. I will be. You say that only my parish knows some of the people I mentioned. You think anyone here knows who some Modjeska, Stefan Drzewiecki, Ignacy Lukasiewicz or A. Wajda are if they are not Poles? I have never heard of these people. But I went online and checked them out without commenting on their greatness or not.


I don't claim Mickiewych because he was a Lithuanian poet, so I see no reason to do that.
Kopernikus was a German astronomer and I don't understand why Pennboy tries to present him as Polish - jealousy?! I have no idea. Polanski is a renowned pedophile who shot "Pianist" movie, so what exactly are you proud of, frankly, beats me. His promiscuity?


My point was a possibility to cooperate in defending both Ukrainian and Polish lands. But I realized a few days ago that it was impossible. I think it was great the way it all occurred. I am really happy :)))

History / Tuchola in Poland - roots of Katyn? [220]


Ukrainian generals Poland might have considered to work with were: Andrij Melnyk, Yevhen Konovalets, Stepan Bandera, Taras Bulba-Borovets. But all of them were imprisoned by Polish regime in the interbellum.


I don't like comparing. I will just list a few Ukrainians and a brief info and you tell me:


Film directors:
Oleksander Dovzhenko


Roman Viktiuk



Writers:
Taras Shevchenko, Ivan Franko, Lesya Ukrainka, Pavlo Zahrebelny, Mykhailo Bulgakow.


Ivan Puliuj -


Oleksander Bohomolets (1881-1946)


Danylo Zabolotnij (1866-1929)


Solomija Krushelnytska - (23 September 1872 - 18 November 1952)


And now back to your 2 statements:


Who is twisting the truth and see things they'd like them to be? I have never said that some nation has no culture. Part of culture, to your knowledge, is having a bit of tact and understanding before making these childish statements of yours.

History / Tuchola in Poland - roots of Katyn? [220]



Well, if Harry, BB or Delphi said to me this, I would be quite interested to prove them wrong. You know why? They are from countries which brought into the modern world multitude of recognized scientists, artists, performers, composers - you name it. More than others, no doubt. They might have been overbearing because of that. Somehow none of them ever said to me anything similar. But you, representative of the "intellectual center of Europe", which brought into our civilization "enormous amount of knowledge";), spatters your childish gibberish about how my country lacks culture.

What is amusing me?! What do you think - "intellectual center of Europe" in which you live, what else?! I feel safe with morons like you.

History / Tuchola in Poland - roots of Katyn? [220]


Do you have one? ;) How come Ukraine lost around 3 million soldiers in WWII? And you say that Ukrainians had no army? Ukrainian Insurgent Army and Ukrainian Soviet Army. Read a bit on WWII, pal, before spreading nonsense.


What a childish reasoning ;) Pity...


I hope, delphi, you haven't said this seriously.


:))) Damn, my ancestors were right. There was no hope to deal with such intelligence ;)


Indeed ;) Limited, but not the choice - something else ;)



Exactly. In just 3 weeks. Being at par in 1934 ;) Wow. Why would you need allies? But frankly, I am glad you didn't ;)

Back on topic, or in the bin it goes

News / Sikorski doctrine - Eastern Europe under threat. Poland's foreign policy. [203]


I have never said that and I am absolutely not. Just a regular person who doesn`t see flowers in politics like some people around here.


Suspicious of what? To be willing to show that it is well-defended? The problem with those systems was that Americans were to put those on Polish territory. I might see Russians not really keen on that idea - having American weapons at its border. But when you have Poland and Ukraine creating THEIR OWN defense system, RF may be suspicious all it wants.


Listen, we are not on the top of the food chain pyramid. Taking into consideration our location and the neighbor`s multiple signs in history (lots of them recent), it won`t be suprise to see it again. If it wasn`t interested, RF would have spent less time meddling in all the surrounding countries`affairs and fixed on raising the standards of living of its people with all the enourmous natural resources it has. But it clearly doesn`t.


I am not Putin. KGB will always find its pretexts. Mind you, in favorable circumstances Europe will show a green light on all the Russian demands in regards to Poland ( I am not talking about Ukraine, it won`t even spit in that direction) as long as it doesn`t concern their delicate well-being. All that said Poland should use all the benefits of cooperation with Germany and other European states for its economic benefits. Without economy - nowhere.


Cruel, Sasha. But I am not a product and not of the SU, even though born and lived a while in that totalitaristic slum.
Sleep well too.

News / "To understand Poland you must understand Frederic Chopin" (Stratfor Friedman) [74]


Yes, yes, I know. I meant that You said that it is not detached. And I agree.


This is one of the most despicable things possible - to try to subdue even imagination of musical chords to a political party line/program. You would think at least music won't be touched. Not in that system.


You are correct on this one.

News / Sikorski doctrine - Eastern Europe under threat. Poland's foreign policy. [203]


Why? What is there they don't already have plenty of??? :))


What did Poland have before? Look, take the US, for example, if you are tired to hear about Russian Federation - they are in Iraq - why? Because of the ``weapons of mass destruction``, right? Afghanistan, why is NATO there? Why was the Soviet Union there for 10 years? Why Americans are wasting billions there and one sees no end whatsoever? Afghanistan is the same as it was in 1960s. You say we are long after the WWII. Are we? It is the same thing as it was before - there is a constant fight for geopolitical control. Iran will soon build its own nuclear weapon and attention of the ``civilized world``might then divert from messing up the Middle East to making sure everything on the Old Continent is properly carved out and loyalties checked. It is natural as history repeats itself over and over.


I am not talking about the next year. But it goes in that direction. And make oneself relax in anticipation of peaceful intentions of RF or support of France is ridiculous. Sikorski doctrine takes that precaution and makes Poland more prepared, which is great.


I don`t speak Russian, but I am quite well in Polish :)


I have never doubted your mother`s-in-law critical analysis of Poland`s defense issues.


Glad to hear that. Now, please, quote me on paranoic statements in regards to Polish defense suggestions I made, Seanus. It will be very kind of you.


I thought you are still married ;)


Sasha, I disagree on this one. He is not semi-illiterate (if this is what you meant, although there may be a good pun in ``semi-litteral`` ;). No. He is illiterate and dumb as a wall. It is an offense to all pigs to call this moron a `ham``.


I wish the best to Russian Federation, especially to its people. But the fact is the fact - your country is not really interested in developing 1/9 th of the world`s land it has, but prefers to mess the livelihood of surrounding states - the Baltics, Ukraine, Belarus`, Moldova, Georgia, Azerbajdzan,...I wish it was a single accident without a pattern, but you know your country`s history I hope to cast off bias a bit and see that what I am saying at least partially is correct. It is your country`s foreign policy and I know that there will be a conflict sooner or later. I warn the Polish people who happen to read this - to think about that, because this is important.


What holds you, Sasha? Canada might be a nice experience for you :)


Where do you see fear? The fact that I prefer peace or at least be fully prepared doesn`t mean that Ukraine or Poland is scared of Russia or any other country. You might occupy an unprepared country, but you will get what NATO faces in Afghanistan, US - in Iraq and Russia - in Chechnia. But it is always better to be ready, Seanus.


For you everything is clear-cut and simple and your mother-in-law explains geopolitical situations. I see it differently and I see it knowing some of the past and present.


He is an intelligent guy and he defends his country. It is understandable. I see the threat to the Eastern Europe and importance of Polish-Ukrainian and other neighboring state separate defense system in case where the rest of Europe and the world will flush us down the drain. RF has an advantage of being interested in international conflicts. Poland and Ukraine are interested in business, which is why there may be military disadvantage on our side. But together we easily can fix it. This is no paranoia. This is reasonable and demanding precaution.

Genealogy / Francysk [Francis / Franciszek] Skaryna [Skoryna] [2]

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francysk_Skaryna

News / Sikorski doctrine - Eastern Europe under threat. Poland's foreign policy. [203]


How? There is one basic line in all wars - control. In all the mentioned wars it was a matter of who controls what part of the world and set his rules. Or you think that either side of the conflict thought about the local population's benefit? They split the territory up, sell the weapons, run the country by instigated brothers on their ancestral land and then will send humanitarian aid and their construction companies to "help rebuild" the destroyed lands in meantime keeping their armies on these lands to force the election in the necessary for the occupiers' direction. Any single war I mentioned had this background. Any upcoming war will have the same principles: as it was 3,000, 1,000, 500, 100, 20, 5 years ago.


And??? Russia might become a member of it too pretty soon. Guess what then? Who will arm the expanded NATO? Germany, France, England, US or Russia? The round table will decide the zones of trade in weapons and Poland will be getting Russian systems of defence whether it wants or not - a lot of economic gears there to make the persuasion easier. And then? It will all roll out by the old scenario.


Yeh..;) It is so focused...
Look at the North Stream - Poland was avoided as a territory through which the gas line is passing even at the additional cost to the pipe-line. Why? Poland is a member of NATO and EU. And, did it help? Believe me, there is an agenda in regards to the Eastern Europe and it will be split and trampled upon and under control of the West and the East - it is a matter of time.


I deeply doubt it, but I am not interested in convincing you in the opposite.


Who says to die? You just unaware of the politics of the region and listen more to the mother-in-law than to check 20-21th century on your own. People like you make countries defeated before anything even starts. Sleep well, Seanus.


Thanks for advice. My doctor treats lobotomized individuals too - if you are interested, I might get you the number.


Yeh ;) You see it VERY clearly.

News / Sikorski doctrine - Eastern Europe under threat. Poland's foreign policy. [203]


Like Belgium and Netherlands in the WWII?! Are we followers of Maginot? Every single state is important. I agree, though, that at the beginning it should be more concentrated.


Who is?


Absolutely.


Very important point, Torq. They work on internet forums, TV, radio, newspapers - they pour huge amounts of money into propaganda. Simply incredible amounts of money to keep us arguing - this is what they have always been doing.


Pragmatism is something Germans and Czechs won't refuse to deal with and we will offer exactly that if we form something worth to be taken into consideration. Not otherwise.


I am glad that in between 1945 and 2010 there were no wars in Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq, Georgia, Chechnia. You reassured me and others completely, Seanus. Thank you very much.


Why did it in the past on multiple occasions? Have anything changed? Did Russia become more religious or Poland less attractive? Seanus, you are out of touch with this world.


Borya, he won't understand it because he won't even try.


Agree. The Western world is not interested in Poland, the Baltic states, Ukraine, Georgia and others. They need some dumb and backward empire like Russia which will f*ck up all possible competition for the West and keep the lands under a single control under conditions of a pool for natural resources and cheap labor. Where will they dump their exports if there are more developed states which besides producing the same products at a better price will additionally create a competitive force in the world market? Their well-off being will be downgraded. So, it is better to support a bad boy like Russia which will make sure to keep everyone around in the same backward state by creating constant conflicts: South Ossetia - in Georgia, Nagorny-Karabakh in Azerbaijan, Russian minority "oppression" in Ukraine and the Baltic states, fake state with Russian military in Trans-Dnistria in Moldova,...- these are just a few.

Indeed, Poland and Ukraine should see this issue clear as day.


Russian Federation has 1/9th of the world's dry land - it still argues with Ukraine about border demarcation in Kerch strait between the Azov and the Black seas refusing to accept the borders which were within the Soviet Union and which it promised to honor in multiple post-Soviet agreements!!!! And you tell me that they will be satisfied with some station post on the Baltic??? Listen, Seanus, you are not Polish and you don't give a damn about Poland and its safety. Me, no matter what happens in the future, I suggest Poland to keep its defense up and as updated as possible - it will need it 100% for sure.


With the same friendly respect as you give Borrka I am telling you, Seanus, that you know sh*t about the Eastern Europe and its circumstances and mentalities. No offense.