UK, Ireland / Polish and Irish people are related? [137]

You are right. There are a lot of similarities between the Irish and the Polish. They are both tough Catholics who used the Catholic church as a source of strength when they were oppressed.

I like the Irish.

News / Polish President Lech Kaczynski and gov officials die in a plane crash in Russia [686]


What????

Wait a minute. Guys like you have criticized Kaczynski's people when ever they criticized the investigation against the Russians. Now you have Tusk, who does NOT belong to Kaczynski's political party (was a rival to Kaczynski) who is critical of the Russian version of events and now you just dismiss it as a "Polish tradition of distrusting Russians"???

Why all this defense of Russia? God forbid there is evidence that the Russians are human and made mistakes in this investigation or made mistakes at the Russian airtower and that some Poles merely observe and mention it.

News / Polish President Lech Kaczynski and gov officials die in a plane crash in Russia [686]

Hmmmm.... well there was a lot of stuff that's been said in there. LOL

Its hard to say, but I guess the article is OK

Its generally somebody's account of what they saw when the plane was landing which we all know. Plane while landing starts to hit trees and the rest is history.

What I thought was interesting was the speculation at the end of it where they thought maybe the efforts of the plane crew would have in fact been in vain if the internal system of the plane was compromised.

Also they noted how for some reason the person on the ground observing the plane could clearly see it even though there was prevailing fog. hmmmmm

By the way, I can't believe nobody on this forum has made any comments on what Tusk has said lately.

News / Polish President Lech Kaczynski and gov officials die in a plane crash in Russia [686]

I have been told that the Polish government's disagreements with the Russian report were basically minor things.

If this is true, why is it being reported that the Polish side is having a CHANGE OF STANCE on the work of the Russian investigators? Based on MINOR disagreements??

"The Polish comments to the report amount to over 150 pages, which clearly shows a change of stance on the work of the Russian investigators," the lawyer added.

en.rian.ru/world/20110103/162037827.html

News / Polish President Lech Kaczynski and gov officials die in a plane crash in Russia [686]


The ones I already talked about:

Referenced in townhall.com article:

Meanwhile, writing in the Polish newspaper Nasz Dziennik, some Polish pilots have challenged the authenticity of the recordings. Among other aeronautical reasons, they cited the length of the transcript, which appears to exceed the 30-minute capacity of a black box tape. The pilots also noted the transcript is missing the signature of the sole Polish expert involved. Further, Polish Radio RMF has reported that one of the Russian-made black-box recordings contains a 16-second gap.

townhall.com/columnists/DianaWest/2010/08/13/polish_plane_crash_investigation_under_suspicion/page/1


Tell me delphiandomine,

Why is this investigation and its outcome so important to you?

This one topic seems to be the most important topic to you on this forum.

What dog do you have in this hunt? So to speak.

You sound like you have some kind of bet on the outcome of this investigation and you bet the house that Russia will be 100% innocent and the Polish pilot will be 100% guilty of this tragedy.

News / Polish President Lech Kaczynski and gov officials die in a plane crash in Russia [686]


That's what they say the transcripts say, which have questionable integrity. Especially when you have unexplained gaps in the transcripts.

Isn't one of the issues brought up recently by the Polish side, was that the air controllers should have told them to land somewhere else? Why would they say that if the air controllers did urge them not to land?

Also, Pilot error doesn't necessarily mean its the pilot's fault if its induced pilot error. Just like someone driving a car who suddenly veers away from a deer charging in the road and crashes on the side of the road can't be totally blamed even if the driver error is technically his fault.

Also does that CFIT syndrome you talk about have to do with sudden whether/fog changing conditions?

Fog conditions that could be created by this?
youtube.com/watch?v=LQF8hsitxvY

News / Polish President Lech Kaczynski and gov officials die in a plane crash in Russia [686]


Where are you getting this scuttlebutt information from?


What questions are they asking about how the controller conducted himself during the approach?

News / Polish President Lech Kaczynski and gov officials die in a plane crash in Russia [686]

I don't believe so.

To their credit, the Russian PEOPLE (not goverment) showed genuine sympathy to Poland when Poland was at its lowest moment back in April. This was never lost on the Polish public and even the Polish diaspora including myself. Hence, I have always had mixed feeling about this whole thing.

So in essence the Polish authorities are walking on egg shells to be as diplomatic as possible about their findings that counter what the Russian authorities (Government) have found in this investigation.

Whatever criticisms the Polish Authorities have about this investigation, I believe its being presented as best as possible and in the context, so that hopefully Poland-Russian relations can continue to improve.

I believe the Polish authorities are trying to have the Russian authorties conceed some points while not making Russia lose face.

Its a delicate thing to say the least. The Polish investigators/Government are walking on egg shells and understandably so.

If the Polish criticisms of the Russian investigation were minor details, why would they be so secretive about their criticisms? By definition, minor criticisms and supporting materials as you say, should be no big deal. Right?

I believe that in general, Poland and Russia want to continue improving their relationship and this improving relationship could be jeopardized if Polish criticisms are not presented the right way.

Wouldn't you agree that improving Poland-Russian relations is at least on some level on both the investigating Polish and Russian authorities' mind's?

News / Polish President Lech Kaczynski and gov officials die in a plane crash in Russia [686]

Yeah that's if those transcripts are true.

Its interesting that the Russian report was rejected and that 148 pages of questions were submitted back to the Russian side.

I mean, 148 pages??? Goodness.

News / Polish President Lech Kaczynski and gov officials die in a plane crash in Russia [686]

Well with this recent plane problem, if it wasn't shot at and didn't have mechanical failure, what was the cause of the problem?

News / Polish President Lech Kaczynski and gov officials die in a plane crash in Russia [686]

[quote=Happymeal]Russia orders halt to Tu-154B flights

Russian transport officials ordered the country's airlines on Sunday to stop using Tu-154B aircraft while they try to determine why one of the planes caught fire on a Siberian runway, killing three people.

Tupolev Tu-154 - Incidents and accidents

OK I'll go out on a limb here and say, maybe there is a problem with this Tupolev Tu-154 airplane?

All these accidents and catastrophes happening with this airplane can't all be coincidences.

News / Polish President Lech Kaczynski and gov officials die in a plane crash in Russia [686]


I think the factors that are being clarified now, are the ones that could have prompted induced pilot error.

News / Sikorski doctrine - Eastern Europe under threat. Poland's foreign policy. [171]

Take it easy on yourself Nathan.

If you made a mistake, its shows sincerity on your part that you admit it. But we all make mistakes.

Don't start getting too self conscious on yourself about what you say now. I don't agree with everything you say (but there are viewpoints I do agree with), but I think in general your viewpoints are well thought out and sincere.

As long as you are diplomatic and respectful in your language, which you usually are, I say let it rip. Keep saying what's on your mind.

Naturally I say this to all other bloggers like BB, Crow and everyone else on these forums.

I think its nice to have viewpoints from Germany, Serbia and Ukraine as well as other countries on this forum.

Since you are from a Slavic/East European nation, I think your viewpoint should be part of the mix of viewpoints on this East European/Slavic topic.

History / Poland in a Slavic Union/Alliance/Federation? [335]

Seanus,

A Slavic Union can start on simple terms. Like first with interested Slavs from Slavic countries sharing their Slavic foods with one another at a Slavic festival. It should be a lighthearted thing to begin with. No heavy politics. Nothing against anyone Just all positive stuff :)

History / Poland in a Slavic Union/Alliance/Federation? [335]

I like that Crow.

He seems like he sincerely cares about all Slavic people :)

News / Sikorski doctrine - Eastern Europe under threat. Poland's foreign policy. [171]


Holy smokes Nathan.

I didn't think I would see you and and your friend BB mix it up like this, on how you guys see potential alliances and "The Sikorski doctrine - Eastern Europe under threat" issue.

It seems BB is debating from the viewpoint of dealing with the excesses/extremism of the Muslims while you are debating from the viewpoint of dealing with the excesses/extremism of old Soviets.

Its interesting. Both of you guys have some good points.

No doubt these points are based on who's shoes you're in.

History / Poland in a Slavic Union/Alliance/Federation? [335]


LOL

What problems could be solved once and for all Crow?

What other side are you reffering to?

History / Poland in a Slavic Union/Alliance/Federation? [335]


I agree with you that its always good to focus on positive things with the Slavic Union and to NOT be against anyone.

It could be kind of like the Polish & Slavic Credit Union here in the US, which naturally only wants to help Polish and Slavic Americans and is not against anyone.

On another note, I think its very interesting how this topic "Slavic Union/Alliance/Federation" has generated OVER 210 comments in just a couple days! Wow!

History / Poland in a Slavic Union/Alliance/Federation? [335]


Well that may be true that historically Poles have disagreed with one another, but that didn't stop Poles who came into America from starting the Polish AND Slavic Credit Union. The past does not equal the future. If Poles only cared about Poles, they would have just called it the Polish Credit Union.

A requirement of becoming a member of the Polish AND Slavic Federal Credit Union:

"In order to become a member of our Union, one must meet certain specific conditions. In the case of PSFCU, prospective members must document Polish or Slavic ethnic origin".....

en.psfcu.com/About_Us_23.html

Many Ukrainian, Russian, Czeck and Serbian Americans belong to the Polish & Slavic Credit Union in America.

So maybe a Slavic Union is not for all Slavs. That's OK. Maybe it will be just for those Slavs who are interested in starting a Slavic Union/Alliance/Federation :D

History / Poland in a Slavic Union/Alliance/Federation? [335]


The interesting thing is that outside of the Poland-Ukraine-Russia region, people of Polish, Ukrainian and Russian ancestry tend to get along well.

I see it here in America where Slavic Americans respect each other since they for some reason value the Slavic bond they have with each other here.

News / Sikorski doctrine - Eastern Europe under threat. Poland's foreign policy. [171]

Well OK if the Slavic Union is going to be a SLAVIC Union, then naturally Germany can't be part of it and Russia will be.

I was just considering different scenarios of how Poland could be grouped with other countries.

I am for Germany as far as the fact that its a neighbor of Poland and trade is always easiest naturally with your neighbors, since the economic logistics and transportation of goods is easier with Germany then with countries that are farther away, like with Russia.

Could we have a Slavic Alliance but with Germany as the Slavic Alliance's favorite non-Slavic partner? :D

History / Poland in a Slavic Union/Alliance/Federation? [335]


Lodz,

I am a Polish American born in the USA.

How would you define this Slavic Union besides the obvious that they all be Slavic? In other words what DO these Slavic nations have to do to be in the Slavic Union?

Do participating Slavic nations give some kind of economic breaks or advantages to other Slavic nations? Do they create a joint Slavic military?

What do you propose the criteria be for membership of this Slavic Union?

It sounds great, I just don't know how feasible it could be since Slavic nations have not been too united. But if inter Slavic relations between Slavic countries get better as they have been.....then you never know.

But I agree with you that the Slavic nations should work with non-Slavic nations like Germany, Mongolia, China ect.

News / Sikorski doctrine - Eastern Europe under threat. Poland's foreign policy. [171]

DOHHHHH!!!

MediaWatch:
Its nothing against Russia, its just that if its a regional thing. Germany is right next to Poland where as Russia isn't, not withstanding Kalingrad.


True.

It would be nice to have the largest Slavic nation in the Slavic Union naturally.

I'm just evaluating different scenarios, all Slavic, all Slavic with Germany, just regional (not necessarily all Slavic) etc.

News / Sikorski doctrine - Eastern Europe under threat. Poland's foreign policy. [171]

Do you think they could make an exception..... for one country Russia and replace it with Germany?

:D

Its nothing against Russia, its just that if its a regional thing. Germany is right next to Poland where as Russia isn't, not withstanding Kalingrad.

History / Poland in a Slavic Union/Alliance/Federation? [335]


Isn't Serbia looking to be in the EU?

I thought Serbia was invited and that its thinking about joining the EU but you can correct me if I'm wrong.

History / Poland in a Slavic Union/Alliance/Federation? [335]


You are right.

Although you will always have critics, I think Poland in the EU working with its neighboring nations like Germany is a good thing for Poland and its neighbors.

I am all for Poland having good relations with all its neighbors.

Looking at the history of Poland and this region of the world in general, its relatively stable and countries in this region should not take this for granted. Furthermore, in my opinion, it would be nice if all these nations can unite as some kind of regional force so that their total prosperity and strength in the world TOGETHER would go up in synergistic proportions in comparison to their strength as individual nations.

But you are right, the EU is the mechanism which is helping countries like Germany, Poland and other EU countries to the degree they cooperate with each other.

I was just wondering about the possibility of just a combined German and Slavic nation regional force.

History / Poland in a Slavic Union/Alliance/Federation? [335]


You know I am all for some kind of Slavic Union with Slavic nations. No doubt.

But since Germany today seems to have decent relations with Slavic nations in general, dare I imagine what a German-Slavic nation alliance can be like?

All the nations of this alliance don't have to be best friends. We all know this isn't feasible. But if the nations of this whole alliance could at least agree on half the issues and major issues like looking out primarily for the best interests of this region of the world, this regional force would no doubt be a world force to be reckoned with.

Deep political and economic relations between countries of this alliance would be a good first step, where they do favors for each other first before the rest of the world.

I just thought I would think outside of the box :)

News / Sikorski doctrine - Eastern Europe under threat. Poland's foreign policy. [171]


Thanks Nathan.

The way I see it, there is no other choice for Ukraine and Poland, but to work together as best as possible so that this part of the world can feel secure and prosper.

Have a Merry Slavic Christmas.


Crow,

Do you think there is hope for Slavic countries like Serbia, Ukraine, Poland and other Slavic countries all rising together so that Slavic Central and Eastern Europe can be a substantial force in the world?

Also, have a Merry Slavic Christmas.

News / Sikorski doctrine - Eastern Europe under threat. Poland's foreign policy. [171]


I agree with you and Nathan on this.

Ukraine and Poland should always strive to work together in a pragmatic way. Its nice to see that despite any differences between the countries, overall, Ukraine-Poland relations have been improving in recent years.

News / Polish President Lech Kaczynski and gov officials die in a plane crash in Russia [686]

LOL

You may be right.

Slavs don't have to agree with everything each other Slav says, but if we can agree on at least half of the things, we can be a powerful force.

But if we don't try to at least stick together somewhat, then yes, maybe we deserve to be somebody's cheap work force LOL

:(