News / Will Poland be badly hit by Recession ? I don't think so. [70]


It seems funny that JP Morgan have predicted a lower growth rate for the next year, but looking back at previous estimates they have been wrong most of the time.

I'm not suprised that your post was ignored. You are involved in property and you do not agree with the doom-mongers so you and your posts giving any positive news will be unwelcome.

News / Will Poland be badly hit by Recession ? I don't think so. [70]

Merged: Perhaps Poland is not doing to badly as people think.

Recent eurostats figures released showing cities in europe (I do not undrstand why they include Turkey, perhaps they have already been secretly accepted for membership) which have the most poverty does not include anywhere in Poland in the top 20. Suprised by the amount of German, Belgium entries.

Mybe the grass is not always greener.

businessinsider.com/europe-poverty-2011-12

Real Estate / Residential real estate values go down in Poland [455]


And how much of the housing stock in Poland has been replaced or added over the past 30 years?. By the existing stock, do you mean the communist blocks that were erected between the 1950's up until the 1990's, the ones with the cladding on the ends and the ********* in the cracks/joints to stop moisture ingression, the ones that were built to last 50 years?. You imagine that to own one of these is the aspiration of most Poles?

The existing stock was built as cheaply as possible do how does this affect todays prices?
Like Milky, you cannot put together a cohesive argument and have no understanding of the subject. Nexy year will be my 40th in the trade which has given me a good overview on the current situation.

You may hate developers, but, someone has to do it.

Why has the word ***********" been censosored? it is a tar like sustance used in waterproofing?

Real Estate / Residential real estate values go down in Poland [455]


Oooooooooooo!!!.sticks and stones!!!!!!

With the absence of facts, anything goes?


Two of the most expensive items that anyone will buy in their lifetime. Both have to be manufactured/produced, most people class these items as necessities. I fail to see how using them as a price comparison is so hard for you to understand. They both require materials and labour which require a finite price level at which they will not be produced on a commercial basis. There are always going to be prototypes which the manufacturer will sell for a loss as a showpiece of their skills and for avertising purposes, but, these are the exceptions.

In the "real" world, (not the socialist one) no developer/manufacturer, is going to sell for below cost price.

Real Estate / Residential real estate values go down in Poland [455]


There was no intention of a "cheapshot" and I certainly do not read "socialist rags", socialismtoday.org/154/abyss.html?, this explains a lot about your animosity but lets not drag this down to your level.

This is the link you need,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

iiea.com/blogosphere/the-legal-constrain ts-that-bind-the-ecb

Its a bit long but you will see that the Greek, Irish, Portuguese bailouts were all illegal

Just the important bits:-

"Few people, however, bother to examine the treaties and there has been little debate on this important area. Article 123 of the Lisbon Treaty prohibits the ECB and the national central banks from lending to governments. It is quite explicit and was designed to encourage fiscal discipline and protect central bank independence. It is replicated in Article 21 of the Protocol on the Statute of the European System of Central Banks and the ECB which provides that:

In accordance with Article 123 of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union, overdrafts or any other type of credit facility with the ECB or with the national central banks in favour of Union institutions, bodies, offices or agencies, central governments, regional, local or other public authorities, other bodies governed by public law, or public undertakings of Member States shall be prohibited, as shall the purchase directly from them by the ECB or national central banks of debt instruments.

What the EU has done is illegal, it seems you do not understand, so don't go on about Germany objecting to this, they were implicit, even to the point of breaking their own laws.

Call it a fudge, a slight bending of the rules etc,its still bloody illegal. Anything to save the Euro.

If you are going to have a go, at least read up on your facts first. I have a 5 year old daughter who is better with financial matters, perhaps you can explain to her how her pocket money is a "Ponzi scheme",

Pratt.

Real Estate / Residential real estate values go down in Poland [455]

"The opponents of large-scale ECB intervention argue that it would be illegal under the EU treaties for the bank to intervene to support member governments' debts. This, however, appears to be a debateable point. It is clearly ruled out that the ECB should directly finance member governments by buying newly issued bonds in the primary market. However, some argue that it would be legitimate for the ECB to buy bonds in the secondary bond market, in order to promote "financial stability" throughout the eurozone."

So who is buying Greek, Italian and Spanish bonds? investors or the ECB, where does the ECB get its money from?. The ECB is buying up to 20,000,000 euros worth of bonds per week. None of the hedge funds or soveriegn wealth funds will touch these bonds. Even with a 30,000,000 euro austerity package which was announced by Italy, last Friday, the borrowing rate for Italy is up to nearly 7% again. The markets have reacted to the european finance meeting held last Friday, they are down because they do not believe a new treaty will solve the problems of soveriegn debt, especially when nobody knows where rthe money is coming from.

What is stagnating the property market is the lack of lending by the banks.

Merkel has now promised "no more haircuts for bondholders", so where is the money to guarantee these bonds coming from..........lol....you really are misinformed.

Real Estate / Residential real estate values go down in Poland [455]


That is "exactly" what Milky does not understand. Maybe if the developer was working on a 5% profit, Milky would think this was fair. Unfortunately, for the risk involved, the developer would be better off buying Greek and Italian bonds, at least the EU will back the debt.

Real Estate / Residential real estate values go down in Poland [455]


Most with any knowledge of the subject, have agreed over the past 3 years that there would be a fall/correction in prices due to the credit scenario. Milky has advocated for a crash, which, has not happened.

He uses examples from Ireland and the US to enforce his arguments but fails to realise that Poland has a far different problem. He thinks new properties should be sold for less than it costs to build them, ie: around the 2,000 PLN m2 mark. He seems not to able understand that no developer is going to do this. We all wish that the brand new car we want to buy is going to be 10,000 PLN but that is not going to happen either, nor will you see petrol/diesel prices back down to 3 zloty per ltr (unless Poland has an oil field we do not know about).

You mention the rules of economics, they do apply here, which is why Milky's predictions, cannot be taken seriously.
If, you were to follow his logic, the prices listed by BRS would not exist. Perhaps BRS will tell us if any of these apartments are listed at a 50%-60% discount? and if they have been on the markets for some time, why not?

Take "Grzybowska 4 - prices PLN 11,800 to PLN 30,000 - about 70 of 240 left for sale" as another example, the developer will have recovered his investment, he only has to sit back and wait. As long as he is not in a hurry to reinvest, there should be no problem, especially as his price range is well below the top end of the market.

Real Estate / Residential real estate values go down in Poland [455]

Oh!!! so there has not been a crash!!! has anyone told Milky?

Real Estate / Residential real estate values go down in Poland [455]

They would likewise think that of Bulgaria and Hungary, but, they are still mentioned. So where is the "bubble" in Poland?

Real Estate / Residential real estate values go down in Poland [455]

Hey Milky, Poland is not even in the top 10!!!!!

dailymail.co.uk/money/mortgageshome/article-2071640/The-worlds-distressed-property-markets--grab-bargain-house.html

News / Will Poland be badly hit by Recession ? I don't think so. [70]

You know you have made it when you are the only country that Germany will lend money too!!!!

FRANKFURT (Reuters) - Germany's second-largest lender Commerzbank (Other OTC: CRZBF.PK - news) will refuse loans which don't help Germany or Poland, as the euro zone crisis makes European banks more protectionist in choosing between writing new business and meeting stringent capital requirements.

I am suprised that they do not want to lend more to the Greeks.

Real Estate / Cost to build in Eastern Poland - Ideally per m2 [71]


So you "assume", without knowing the facts.

Real Estate / Residential real estate values go down in Poland [455]


Exactly, you want a mansion and somebody else to pay for it. Take out a Somali citizenship, have six kids with you (birth certs not required) and register with any inner city council, no problem. A seven bedroom house will be yours in 12 hours. You might have to wait a day or two for the 50" television and the car.

Real Estate / Cost to build in Eastern Poland - Ideally per m2 [71]


We agree to disagree. My company is Polish, I can buy what I want.

I never accused you of bullshiiing!!!, neither do I pretend to know anything about IT consultancy. I comment on what I know and my experiences here in Poland. If you have bought land and built here then I am happy to listen to your expertise.

Real Estate / Cost to build in Eastern Poland - Ideally per m2 [71]


As I suspect you know, the poster meant 5,000 an "ara" not m2.

The links you give apply to land in the middle of nowhere and a lot of them are wooden houses. If you delved deeper into these ads you might understand why they are this price. Long narrow strips of land, no/shared access to roads etc. I have spent years looking at land in my area and I can assure you, decent plots are very expensive. Add on the cost of what Poles "imagine" these plots to be worth and you are looking at telephone numbers.

Real Estate / Cost to build in Eastern Poland - Ideally per m2 [71]


And probably a few other "little" things that were not mentioned in the ad, landscaping, boundry walls, gates, paths, driveway, connection to sewer. The "little" things that I would expect an IT consultant to forget. Oh!!! and lets not even contemplate that the builder/developer has to make a profit to enable his business to carry on. Perhaps peterweg would enlighten us as to what a fair profit would be for a building which takes many years of planning and construction. Perhaps we should compare it with selling a kilo of apples or a shirt over a shop counter. I've heard that the markup on food/clothing is very good. Thats why the clothes shops can afford to have sales with 70% off and the developers cannot.

Real Estate / Cost to build in Eastern Poland - Ideally per m2 [71]


So you never wrote this?

"Even the figures you quote for hassles don't make a dent on the overall cost (which you haven,'t given). But your 6k/m2 figure is higher than other builders are selling for, including land, and higher than the sales price for all sorts of completed property."

Real Estate / Cost to build in Eastern Poland - Ideally per m2 [71]

And you still have to buy the land and add the cost of the finishes, so what is your point?

Real Estate / Cost to build in Eastern Poland - Ideally per m2 [71]


Its funny you should mention that. The flats were number 1A, 1B and then up to 12. It was only when the building was legalised that the council told me that "only houses" can have this suffix. Another little suprise I had to find out at the end of the project.

I wanted to use the top floor (loft). As the building is "L" shaped, this only allowed a choice of 1 apartment @ 120m2 and 1 @ 170m2 (much too big), decided on 2 X 120m2 and 1 X 50m2. It was the best use of the available space and limited, height, access. The actual apartments are much bigger than the sizes stated, as, because of the sloping roofs, anything under 2.2 mtrs is not included in the m2 for sale.

Real Estate / Cost to build in Eastern Poland - Ideally per m2 [71]

Each apartment built is classed as an individual project, so, imagine the time and paperwork for 13 apartments. According to peterweg, the value of a property can be worked out by the amount of labour and materials used.

I wish it were that simple.

Real Estate / Cost to build in Eastern Poland - Ideally per m2 [71]


Did you include the cost of all this "extra" running around in the 210,000 PLN that the project cost you?. If you had to put a figure on this, how much do you think it cost?

Having done this project yourself, would you explain to peterweg how "easy" it is to deal with the problems you had.

Real Estate / Cost to build in Eastern Poland - Ideally per m2 [71]

Surely, if you were serious about building quickly, the contractors could have used a generator on site. You knew you had permission to be connected up to the local supply as you had already paid for the installation. Most contractors I know would have used "petrol" powered chainsaws to avoid having to drag cables all around the site. Maybe a generator for a "Bench saw". If you had constructed the building, this would have put pressure on the media companies to connect you up.

There are always ways of getting around problems if you really want to.

UK, Ireland / Why Poles will never belong in England [283]

And the "Daily Mail" has not blamed the Poles yet. Still its early in the day!!!!

UK, Ireland / Why Poles will never belong in England [283]


So have Asians. Have you noticed in the UK press how many have been charged with "malpractice"? and struck off!! Apart from Harold Shipman who is an extreme example, I know who I would rather have treating me!!!

UK, Ireland / Why Poles will never belong in England [283]

I left the UK and moved to Poland in 2004 because of idiots like you.

UK, Ireland / Why Poles will never belong in England [283]


I think. "benefits" is the word you are looking for. At least the Poles make an attempt at paying into the system. All you do is try and use the excuse of "slavery" to milk the same system for all its worth. Jesus!!! 7,000 years ago, my ancestor killed one of your relatives with a stone axe, do you still want compensation?. I am "sorry" so "sorry" for what my ancestors did. If I could go back in time and make this right I would. As I can't, Fcuk off and annoy somebody else.

UK, Ireland / Why Poles will never belong in England [283]

Before you pick on the Polish, I think you need to question your Labour government that was giving out over 500,000 British Passports each year. The UK had major problems long before 2004. Why were you not out on the streets marching then?. Always the same with the English, moan and then do nothing about it.I remember the 70's when the communists used to sell the "Morning Star" in the shopping centres, they gave up after a few years when they realised that the English were to lazy to have a revolution.

I also remember the National Front marching, nobody listened to them either. Now you want to make an issue of it. Joke.

Work / The level of English of Polish teachers of English. What do you think of it? [101]


I have been with my partner for 6 years, she is an English teacher with a masters degree and I would not even let her teach our 5 year old daughter. Most evenings she sits there, marking her students papers and " forever" asking me the meanings, pronounciation, correct usage of the language she is teaching. When I tell her the answers that she requests, she argues with me. She has never lived in the UK. At the moment, she is in Spain for 10 days with 35 students who had a choice of learning English iin Spain or England, they chose Spain?

I love my partner too bits, but, she drives me "Fckin mad" because I have to repeat everything 20 times and she still does not understand or listen.

I have no problem with helping out with answers, my only problem is having to repeat myself all the time.
Polish/English teachers seem to think that because they have passed their exams, they have finished learning.
Even for "us", native speakers, the language is changing all the time, especially as we grow older.
On Thursday, I am going to my daughter's kindergarten to watch her having an "English" lesson. This should be fun, we pay an extra 20 PLN per month for her to have these lessons and I do not think that the teacher knows that her father is English. I am prepared for the usual embarassing situation while I attend.

Obviously. My partner takes about 12 students for private lessons to supliment her income. I take 4 of the best, at no cost, to help them out. They have all obtained top marks, which, pleases the parents and my partner. Its not about money, its about giving something back in the area where I live.

I earn my money in different ways, so a few hours a week is a small price to pay for the friendship I have been shown.

My partners students seem to worship her, but, as an English teacher, I think she is crap.

Life / What is Nowy Sacz like? [26]

I was there yesterday at the specialist hospital. I would not call it a "pretty" town. It seems to be spread over a large area and has a terric amount of light industrial premises and car showrooms. It seems to be a popular place to move too as lots of people advertise for property there.