News / Poland's aid to Ukraine if Russia invades - part 20 [1576]


There you go.


No, my thinking is that you don't know what RuSSia's plans are right now and what they are going to be in a few years or 10 years or 15 years. I don't know that either. What I do know though is that I'd rather we didn't wait with preparations for another speech made by Putin or his successor, because by that time it may be too late already.


It definitely wasn't a moral decision by the then left-wing post-communist Polish government - it was very pragmatic. They hoped that if Poland helped the US then the US would help Poland in the future if Poland got attacked.


There was a time when Putin didn't seem to mind Ukraine's desire to join NATO (at least judging by his words).

News / Poland's aid to Ukraine if Russia invades - part 20 [1576]


And before that speech it wasn't?


So? Britain, the US and France would be doing what they were doing no matter if NATO existed or not.


No, "the club" didn't agree to invade Iraq. That's why the US had to gather the "coalition of the willing" consisting of different countries, including from outside of NATO.

News / Poland's aid to Ukraine if Russia invades - part 20 [1576]


You're talking about individual countries now, not NATO.


What does it have to do with NATO?


You could say that it was "internally offensive"... lol

News / Poland's aid to Ukraine if Russia invades - part 20 [1576]

@Barney, I wasn't asking about the time after the events in Kyiv. I meant before that. Did you believe in 2012 or 2010, etc. that RuSSia would invade Ukraine?


It didn't go out of business, it just shrinked a bit and now it's called RuSSia.


The US wasn't a nuclear superpower back then. Noone would dare to attack you now. Just like noone would dare to attack RuSSia. And that's why those two countries can attack smaller countries as they please (but not each other).


They are if compared to the US.


The fact that there is some threat doesn't mean it's in any way comparable. RuSSia could nuke Europe into oblivion.

News / Poland's aid to Ukraine if Russia invades - part 20 [1576]

@Barney, but the reason for the creation of NATO was the defence against the Soviet Union. So NATO is defensive in its principle.


Nah, Barney, you're not going to weasel out of this :)))

Answer my question, please - did you believe that RuSSia had plans or will to invade Ukraine before it actually happened in 2014? I didn't ask you if you now think that they had plans to do that. I'm asking you what you believed before 2014.


No, it isn't and the US doesn't border China. But Poland borders RuSSia.


No, but I hear RuSSia threatening with their nukes. And, sorry, but comparing the threat from far away, small and weak North Korea towards such a country like the US with the threat for Poland which borders the biggest nuclear power on Earth (RuSSia) is pretty ridiculous.

News / Poland's aid to Ukraine if Russia invades - part 20 [1576]

@Novichok, Poles (and others) were fighting alongside your soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan.


You can't be serious... Who's going to attack the US? Mexico? lol 🤦


Yup.

News / Poland's aid to Ukraine if Russia invades - part 20 [1576]


I also didn't think that RuSSia would invade Ukraine in my lifetime, but here we are...


People in the West seem to think that RuSSians think/reason like us/them... They have no idea...


Exactly. And I'm telling you that being in NATO is worth only as much as the ability or the will of NATO to defend their member states.


You don't know what you believed before 2014?

News / Poland's aid to Ukraine if Russia invades - part 20 [1576]


I think you're very, very wrong then... lol Shockingly naive really o_O
Also, even if you were right that they don't have plans or the will to do that now, that may change in the future.

Barney, I have a simple question for you - did you believe before 2014 that RuSSia had any plans or will to invade Ukraine?

News / Poland's aid to Ukraine if Russia invades - part 20 [1576]


Exactly.


You were talking about a seizure of any NATO country/territory and now about a nuclear strike?

During the Soviet Union times they didn't have to seize any NATO countries because they already had the communist satellite states serving as a buffer between the USSR and the West. Now all those "buffer countries" are in NATO. Including small Baltic states with Estonia having a 24% Russian/RuSSian minority now. Remember how having a lot of Russian speakers ended for Ukraine?

So, we're living in a different reality now. And today's RuSSia isn't communist, it's nationalistic. There are "lands" that RuSSians view as "theirs" that are not theirs anymore (just like in case of Nazi Germany). And those "lands" are of course not France or Germany or UK or Italy, but Ukraine, Belarus, the Baltic states, etc.

In my opinion the likelihood of RuSSia invading the Baltics, for example, depends on, among others, the strength of NATO. Not only on military strength, but also on unity and the will to defend some small country in Eastern Europe. If there's going to be a political need in RuSSia and they'll see enough weakness in NATO I don't see a reason why they wouldn't invade Estonia. Do you think they have a problem with invading countries and killing people? lol They clearly don't. Of course NATO would have to be really weak for that to happen or there would have to be no will to defend countries on the Eastern flank of NATO. But as you can see with what's happening with the US right now - God knows what new horrors await us in the future... And if RuSSia takes Ukraine it will get emboldened and stronger and in case of weak NATO (or falling apart completely) Poland is screwed strategically.


Yes, but we're talking about RuSSia attacking NATO countries now.

News / Poland's aid to Ukraine if Russia invades - part 20 [1576]


Well, they will attack (the Baltic countries at first most probably) given the right circumstances, imho, so let us not create the right circumstances for that...


What does that have to do with attacking NATO though? Poland is in NATO. Torq has his issues, but he's not Novichok, come on...

News / Poland's aid to Ukraine if Russia invades - part 20 [1576]


At any circumstances? How do you know?

Lech Kaczyński wasn't being treated seriously when he said RuSSia will invade Ukraine and look at the reality in which we're living in now. Noone is laughing today, huh...

Kaczyński said: "Today Georgia, tomorrow Ukraine". We're living in this "tomorrow" now, it's our "today" now. So how can you be so sure what will happen tomorrow? Or the day after tomorrow?


Erm, if those academics have such an unrestricted access to Soviet archives could they please have a look at those still classified Katyń files that RuSSia won't share with Poland o_O

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News / Poland's aid to Ukraine if Russia invades - part 20 [1576]


One word: lunacy...


I'm not a "little girl", small man.


Wow, that's just makes it even worse... Shame on you.

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News / Poland's aid to Ukraine if Russia invades - part 20 [1576]


Stop it, Bobko. They are no angels. They are invaders and some of them are also rapists and thieves and torturers.

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News / Poland's aid to Ukraine if Russia invades - part 20 [1576]


This is exactly what I commented on or rather asked about - because I had a hard time believing it's actually true (hence "lol").


...the stupidity of anyone who had this "great" idea. 🤦

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