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Posts by Bobko  

Joined: 13 Mar 2017 / Male ♂
Warnings: 1 - O
Last Post: 1 day ago
Threads: Total: 27 / Live: 23 / Archived: 4
Posts: Total: 2063 / Live: 1987 / Archived: 76
From: New York
Speaks Polish?: Y
Interests: reading, camping

Displayed posts: 2010 / page 28 of 67
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Bobko   
29 Dec 2023
Off-Topic / Russian Views On Poland and Vice Versa [382]

22.000 with a shot in the head.

It's terrible, and I do not argue that it is not terrible.

However...

Remember, that for many of the Soviet officers participating in this crime, these were people that they had fought, and lost comrades to, not 19 years before. So now its 2023, then we are talking about 2004. Polish noble officers were not exactly popular with Stalin, who happened to be a front commander during the Polish-Soviet War of 1920.

These were not just Polish elites to be exterminated, these were personal enemies that had previously humiliated them.
Bobko   
29 Dec 2023
Off-Topic / Russian Views On Poland and Vice Versa [382]

@Torq

Well, I am sort of agreeing with you - that the evil impulse is absent in Russia. After all, we didn't gas all those Poles we sent to Siberia. Instead, we made them starve and freeze through characteristic mismanagement - and afterwards had the balls to ask them if they feel strong enough to go liberate their homeland.

What allowed us to do so, is that we did much worse things to our own people, and then also asked them to sacrifice. So, to us at least, it seemed normal.

It's just part of living in Russia. Up is down here. That's why I think it is not possible to compare Russian life to African colonies or Third Reich Generalgouvernement.
Bobko   
29 Dec 2023
Off-Topic / Russian Views On Poland and Vice Versa [382]

Maybe you were too soft?

Nah, we're just Russians. We bumble about, don't think, and terrible things happen.

Whether we are doing some nice version of empire, or some super brutalizing sort, it won't work because nothing works in Russia as intended.

My feeling is that we didn't so much colonize, as other people ended up being inside of our little circus.

It's hard to compare what we did to the organized and industrialized exploitation that other more civilized people's managed. We just kind of grew, like an amoeba on a lab plate.
Bobko   
29 Dec 2023
Off-Topic / Russian Views On Poland and Vice Versa [382]

Jaruzelski was brainwashed in a similar manner.

So for you he is just some Polish Ephialtes, who showed the army of Xerxes how to flank the Spartans at Thermopylae?
Bobko   
29 Dec 2023
Off-Topic / Russian Views On Poland and Vice Versa [382]

I must say, I am amazed at Russia's capacity to absolutely brutalize someone and simultaneously turn them into an agent of her interests.

What other country can do this?

It is a superpower - no less. Something more than Stockholm Syndrome.
Bobko   
29 Dec 2023
Off-Topic / Russian Views On Poland and Vice Versa [382]

Very well, so be it. I will continue my post on Jaruzelski.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

In his own words, he buried his father - Wladislaw, by wrapping his body into Pravda newspapers instead of linen cloth.

Wojciech himself when still in Siberia, had to walk 180 km on foot, to the location of his logging camp. This was the first time he injured his eyes, through snow blindness. It was at this logging camp, likely, where Jaruzelski also learned to speak his famously unaccented Russian.

Everything changed for Jaruzelski, in the summer of 1943. The Soviet government was starting to assemble the 1st Tadeusz Kościuszko Infantry Division, the first division of the First Army (Berling Army). Military age Poles in the camps were being recruited, and Jaruzelski was one of them - enlisting into this division. And so, his debt to the Soviet Motherland was paid. Shortly afterwards, noticing his talents, the Soviet military sent him to attend lectures at the K. Voroshilov Ryazan Infantry School (now the Ryazan Guards Higher Airborne Command School).

After his time in Ryazan, Jaruzelski served in the 2nd Warsaw Infantry Division of Henryk Dąbrowski, in the rank of porucznik - being sent immediately to the Front. From the Fall of 1943, he served as a submachine gun squad commander. From the Spring of 1944, commander of a cavalry reconnaissance squad. From January of 1945, as intelligence aide-de-camp to the chief of staff of the 5th Regiment.

Took part in military operations on the Wisla, the Magnuszew Bridgehead, the Liberation of Warsaw, the storming of Eastern Pomerania, battles on the Baltic coastline, the Oder, and the Elbe.

For valor in combat, was awarded multiple Polish combat medals and orders, including the highest Polish military honor - the War Order of Virtuti Militari.

As is evident from his biography, Jaruzelski did not sit in the rear as a staff clerk. He was either at the front as an infantryman, a reconnaissance team, or as an intelligence officer - during the most hardcore years of the war.

In 1946, Jaruzelski was sent to fight UPA insurgents in Western Ukraine, and to extinguish remnants of the AK. This is material for another post at some later time.
Bobko   
29 Dec 2023
Off-Topic / Russian Views On Poland and Vice Versa [382]

Lkt him fekking burn in Hell till eternity and beyond!

How can you speak this way, about a Pole that defended Poland with rifle in hand?

Don't you think he had more reason to hate Russians - than even you? Given that they had killed his father, and even sent him to a labor camp where he lost his health.

I think Kania is right, to judge Jaruzelski - you have to put yourself in his shoes. Not everything is so simple.
Bobko   
29 Dec 2023
Off-Topic / Russian Views On Poland and Vice Versa [382]

lot of homo sovieticuses did and still do respect him. Shame

Where is General Jaruzelski's villa in Spain, or yacht in the Adriatic? What did he steal from you, or from Poland? Did he sell Poland to the highest bidder?

Unlike a lot of the guys on the scene today, these dinosaurs really do seem like idiots. With total and complete power in their hands, they didn't even set aside a little nest egg in Belgravia.

Doesn't the history I provided make you respect him at least a little bit more?
Bobko   
29 Dec 2023
Off-Topic / Russian Views On Poland and Vice Versa [382]

@pawian

Sorry, I was translating the quotes myself, and must have made a duplicate of the last quote when trying to italicize it.

We compared him to Pinochet in Chile. Similar dictators

In the enlightened West, Pinochet has a pretty good reputation of an effective manager. Not many tears were spilled in Washington over the death of the Communist Salvador Allende.

I doubt Jaruzelski was a fascist in the mold of Pinochet.

Maybe Jaruzelski was similar to Pinochet, in not having much capacity for sentimentality - due to being brutalized himself.
Bobko   
29 Dec 2023
Off-Topic / Russian Views On Poland and Vice Versa [382]

I have been reading up, recently, on the life of Wojciech Jaruzelski, the former head of the Polish People's Republic.

In many ways, it is a tragic history - unfortunately - and one deeply connected with my country. I'm surprised that more Russians do not know the story of this man.

Jaruzelski was born in 1923, in a family of the Polish aristocracy with roots going back to the 15th century. His grandpa was a member of the Polish uprising in 1863-64, and for this was sent by the Tsar to ten years of exile in Siberia. After Poland gained independence, his father served as a volunteer in the Polish army during the Polish-Soviet War. Indeed, his father had many reasons to fight for Poland, as a very large landowner.

A young Jaruzelski attended a Catholic gymanasium, and all indicators probably pointed at a successful career as a lawyer or businessman. However, then Germany invaded, and shortly after - the Soviet Union. The Jaruzelski family fled to Lithuania, which soon also came under Soviet occupation. Him and his family were sent into exile in Siberia, his father assigned to a labor camp.

From an interview with Jaruzelski:

«Глядя уже из ссыльного вагона на советских солдат-охранников в ненавистных мне тогда шинелях чужой армии, с винтовками на плечах, мне и в голову не могло прийти, что вскоре вместе с солдатами в точно таких же, как и у них, гимнастерках и шинелях, одетый, правда, в новенькую польскую форму, я попаду на войну. С такой же винтовкой бить гитлеровцев, освобождать Польшу, Варшаву...».

Translation:

"Looking out of that exile train car, at the Soviet soldiers guarding us, wearing the despised uniforms of a foreign army, with rifles on their shoulders, I could never have imagined, that soon - with soldiers just like these - in Russian style uniform, but remade in Polish fashion, I would be thrown into the war. With a rifle just like that, to fight Hitlerites, to liberate Poland, Warsaw...".

In Siberia, Jaruzelski father died in 1942 - shortly after being released from the GULAG. To support his family, a young Jaruzelski had to work as a mover and a lumberjack in the taiga of the Altay.

Later, Jaruzelski ended up being exiled himself. To a labor camp in Karaganda, in Soviet Kazakhstan. In Kazakhstan, Jaruzelski permanently ruined his back, as well as his eyes. This is why he always wore the sunglasses, which earned him the nickname of "Welder" from the Poles.

Despite all these insults, humiliations, and abuse that the Jaruzelski family experienced in the USSR, despite all the historical trauma that exists between our two countries, his personal attitude towards Russians always remained respectful.

Quote:

«Когда мы жили в Сибири, одна из знакомых россиянок спросила как-то: "А где ваш отец?" Говорю: "В лагере". "Ну, - отвечает, - это товарищ Сталин не знает..." Таков менталитет российского народа, для которого существует хороший царь и плохие бояре. Нужно знать этот народ, чтобы понять его. И я понимаю. Нельзя, чтобы действия каких-нибудь подлецов, которых можно найти в каждой стране, бросали тень на весь народ, который сам стал первой жертвой сталинизма. Одно могу сказать о россиянах - героический, но очень многострадальный народ...»

"When we lived in Siberia, one of our Russian acquaintances once asked us: "And where is your father?". I told her: "He's in a camp." "Well," - she answered - "Comrade Stalin does not know this." Such is the mentality of the Russian people, for whom there exists a kind Tsar and rotten nobility. You need to know this people, to understand it. And I do understand it. We must not allow, the actions of various miscreants, which can be found in every country, to throw shade on an entire people, which became the first victim of Stalinism. I can say one thing about the Russian - they are a heroic and long-suffering people." "When we lived in Siberia, one of our Russian acquaintances once asked us: "And where is your father?". I told her: "He's in a camp." "Well," - she answered - "Comrade Stalin does not know this." Such is the mentality of the Russian people, for whom there exists a kind Tsar and rotten nobility. You need to know this people, to understand it. And I do understand it. We must not allow, the actions of various miscreants, which can be found in every country, to throw shade on an entire people, which became the first victim of Stalinism. I can say one thing about the Russian - they are a heroic and long-suffering people."

I think this is enough for one post about Jaruzelski.


  • 165pxWojciech_Jaruz.jpg
Bobko   
27 Dec 2023
News / Poland - A True Bastion and Defender of Free Speech [250]

I insulted others, too

Kania - you have to give him this. He is the quintessential equal opportunity offender.

Novichok is the Nietzsche of PF.

Name the top three. Make sure they are exclusive to Poland.

And who wrote the rule book that says that such things must be decided on such criteria? Why can this benchmark not be subjective?

Regardless - I will attempt:

1) Whether in art, literature, or music - amongst the Slavs the only comparison is amongst the Poles. As a Russian, I am conditioned to see in Poles traitorous schemers. However, as an objective human being, I can see that they wrote some good things, composed some good music, and made some good painters. More so, it resonates with me deeply - in my Russian soul. Some piece of Slavicness that my DNA discarded historically, through unuse, presented back to me in the raw.

2) Polish courage - up there with the Spartans. No Russian will say Poles are cowards. Morons, idiots, Western poodles - but not cowards.

3) Polish sense of freedom. There is a reason Kosciusko is such a hero in America. There's a reason Poles played such a role in the Russian Revolution. There's a reason you live in Illinois. Though we try to stamp it out, it's cause of great respect still.
Bobko   
27 Dec 2023
Off-Topic / Best posters [875]

@Torq

You are very kind. I am but the padawan.

In Christmas spirit, let me say that every single poster on this board (except Sralec), is a cherished tenant of my brain.

I wish all of you a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.

Let's make a little more kind the life of this world in this coming year.
Bobko   
27 Dec 2023
News / Poland - A True Bastion and Defender of Free Speech [250]

Life is short. I have a right to spend the best way I can.

It is your right...

However, I can't help but agree with Kania. It's hard to watch.

You come from a unique country. I don't mean Poland, but America. So maybe your attitude can be forgiven, because what you are doing is the essence of the American project. That is, you are a good immigrant. An excellent immigrant - maybe....

But love for Patria is sacred. And there is so much in Poland to fall in love with.
Bobko   
27 Dec 2023
History / Pol-Shorpy Photo Thread [950]

This is because those were peasant-worker eagles unlike today's bourgeois-monarchist eagles sporting golden crowns

"Peasant worker eagles" - hehehehe!
Bobko   
23 Dec 2023
Life / What do Poles really think about cats? [434]

I asked ChatGPT to answer why Poles love cats so much, and to put it into a historical context. Here is the result:

**The Unlikely Love Affair: Why Poles Adore Cats Despite a Complicated History**

In a nation that has weathered Russian partitions, the Polish-Soviet War, World War II, and the chilling embrace of the Cold War, one might wonder: What's the deal with Polish people and cats? Surprisingly, this feline affection persists, defying the odds of historical tumult.

Could it be a coping mechanism, a silent rebellion against the upheavals of the past? Poles, known for their resilience in the face of adversity, apparently found solace in the purring companionship of these enigmatic creatures. After all, what better way to thumb your nose at geopolitical chaos than by adopting a nonchalant attitude-much like a cat's indifference to human concerns.

Perhaps, in times of hardship, Poles sought refuge in the feline mystique, secretly believing that a cat's proverbial nine lives could be the ultimate insurance policy against historical calamities. Who wouldn't want an ally that can outlast partitions, wars, and geopolitical intrigues?

In an ironic twist, the very creatures that supposedly have nine lives found favor in a country that, despite historical setbacks, continues to stand resilient. It's almost as if Poles are saying, "If we can survive all that, so can a cat."

So, the next time you witness a Pole lavishing attention on their feline companion, remember that it's not just a cat-it's a living embodiment of historical endurance and a symbol of the unwavering spirit that has carried Poland through the trials of time. After all, nothing says, "We've been through a lot, but we're still here," quite like sharing your home with a whiskered confidant. Meow-sive respect, Poland.

Bobko   
21 Dec 2023
Off-Topic / Russian Views On Poland and Vice Versa [382]

Not to my ear

Ya you told me about the similarities with чваныки.

It doesn't sound very intelligent... but that's because it has an agrarian origination. Maybe Ukrainian is the true depository of "folk speak".
Bobko   
21 Dec 2023
Off-Topic / Russian Views On Poland and Vice Versa [382]

accent and the melody

My god...

From my ex and every Ukrainian I ever met I had to listen to how Ukrainian is "the second most melodic language after Italian."

Please do not compare melodicity of the two languages, because you are hurting Ukrainian national ego.

I admit, I sometimes like to listen to it. It's a warm language. Grown men, covered with gunpowder marks and mud, speaking Ukrainian - suddenly sound like teddy bears.

For the same reason it's childish and retarded.
Bobko   
21 Dec 2023
Off-Topic / Russian Views On Poland and Vice Versa [382]

@Torq

It definitely sounds Ukrainian to us.

I realize this is because Ukrainian borrows so heavily from Polish.

All the шановный, дякуе, мае рацию, размовляти etc type stuff.
Bobko   
21 Dec 2023
Off-Topic / Russian Views On Poland and Vice Versa [382]

Somewhere, once, I heard that Dutch sounds like a drunk Englishman trying to speak German.

To Russians, Ukrainian sounds like someone is from the farm, and has had much to drink.
Bobko   
21 Dec 2023
Off-Topic / Russian Views On Poland and Vice Versa [382]

It could help if both try to communicate in high german

Yes, it helps when people speak the Great Russian.

If they use their silly southern or western dialects, like Ukrainian or Belarusian - things become more difficult.
Bobko   
21 Dec 2023
History / Famous Russian Poles [243]

he must have died there

Well, I certainly hope not.

I hope he finally opened the restaurant business he always spoke about, and is simply too busy to write here.
Bobko   
21 Dec 2023
Off-Topic / Russian Views On Poland and Vice Versa [382]

Officially! :)

I have a friend from Saxony, that speaks fluent Russian, and he tells me it is probably easier for a Russian to understand a Belarusian, than it is for a person from Dresden to understand someone from the southern mountains.
Bobko   
21 Dec 2023
History / Famous Russian Poles [243]

Russian Czarina Catherine II was of Sorbian origin, von Anhalt-Zerbst (Serbian)-Dornburg... and, her lover was Polish Stanisław Poniatowski who was real love machine and she gave him Polish throne

I miss Crow.

Even more, Dzerzhinskiy was Russian too

Kostya was much more worldly in 2008.
Bobko   
21 Dec 2023
Off-Topic / Russian Views On Poland and Vice Versa [382]

I can see all the difficulties and impossibilities of it. But still... it is such a lovely idea in itself.

You feel as a German felt in the beginning of the 19th century.

However, Germany managed this process - somehow. Bavarian, Swabian, Rhinelander, and Prussian were joined. Mutant Swiss and Austrians managed to skip out - but the majority managed to unite.

Of course, for the world, the results of German unification were a little bit scary. Maybe, the results of Slavic unification will be scary as well - but they'll get over it.