Life / What do Polish people think of the Asia and Middle East? [86]


*chuckling*

I'm curious to know what possesses someone to make such a comment on an internet forum.

@novichok

Who the possession of Taiwan was negotiated to by the victor allies has all the relevance .

Life / What do Polish people think of the Asia and Middle East? [86]

Again, there is no comparison. The differences between Taiwan/China and the American Civil War are important, IMO, for the justice argument you are trying to make.

The Am South was a part of the Union and operating under the same US Constitution as the Northern states. In other words, the south was a part of the USA.

Taiwan had not been a part of China since the late 1800's when it came under Japanese rule after China ceded it after losing a war with Japan. It was Japan who lost Taiwan after WWII, not China, and it was agreed to be handed to the REPUBLIC of China, not the commies. The ROC gov escaped to Taiwan after the chicom rebellion.

What's interesting and contrary to contemporary belief about Taiwan is that it wasn't under Chinese rule until late 17th century and before that was actually under the control of the Dutch, ie the Dutch East India Company. So, the Chinese don't have a hereditary claim to the place.

Life / What do Polish people think of the Asia and Middle East? [86]

I don't think they are remotely comparable.

Here's an interesting article I came across during lunch, it radiates the intricacies of the situation:

thediplomat.com/2017/07/the-chinese-cult-of-cairo-and-the-status-of-taiwan/

History / Why Was D-Day So Significant for Poland ? [266]


Was this reported pessimism consistent from 1933 until 1945, or was it just during the war years?


Interesting, indeed.

Life / What do Polish people think of the Asia and Middle East? [86]


It was part of China until the Chinese signed it over to the Japanese in the 19th century. Then, during WWII, the allies gave it to the Republic of China. Then, the Republican gov gets into a war with the communists and the republicans relocate to Taiwan and setup shop. There's at least a very compelling, if not rock solid, argument that Taiwan isn't a rogue breakaway.

History / Why Was D-Day So Significant for Poland ? [266]


The amount of support the war received within Germany is something I've wondered about. When you say most Germans, is there a reliable estimate about the percentage of ordinary Germans who were against war at the time?


Or, maybe, the repercussions of voicing opposition had more to do with it than the winning :{

News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2986]


Yet, Zieodimwit, he never made a religious argument one time. Maybe its not being able to stand PF's inability to make cogent rational arguments that chases the more intelligent posters away. After awhile you realize swine don't know what to do with pearls, so you take your bag of pearls and leave...because that's the wise thing to do.

Language / Cultural disparities shown through Polish and English languages [195]

:):):). Because, it is the glass' fate, afterall.

Language / Cultural disparities shown through Polish and English languages [195]


I'd go even further and say the traditional Polish mindset is the glass is 10% empty and it's only a matter of time before someone comes along and knocks the glass over and breaks the damn thing. :)

News / Poland rejects international criticism over LGBT rights [28]

@cms neuf

You know your cliches-I'll give you that.

Even though your assumption is wrong, if I was getting all my info from a priest, who may he getting action, if that info is good and correct, does the priest's hypocrisy make what is correct any less correct? He may not be practicing what he preaches, but that doesn't necessarily effect the veracity of what he preaches.

But, anyhow, it'd be more interesting if you had something more substantive.

News / Poland rejects international criticism over LGBT rights [28]


That's also a part of it. Sex also has a very strong bonding characteristic, that's why guilt is often felt after the fun ends when there's no commitment involved. Here's the thing about marital heterosexual sex, every now and again that endorphin rush of sex has associated endorphin rushes when the child you made is born and develops throughout his or her life. It's the gift that keeps on giving.


A unitive purpose is the other.


And you think heterosexuals don't sin? They do, so following your logic, heterosexuals aren't made in God's image either, because they're sinners.

News / Poland rejects international criticism over LGBT rights [28]

With the LBGT agenda, it's not about what people do in bed as much as it is accepting what is being done in bed as natural. It's about socially normalizing an abnormality.

Regardless of how you slice it, sex has a couple co-equal purposes, one being procreation. We can use all the semantics we want, but you cannot erase from nature the reality that the sex organs have one biological use: making babies. And nature has so designed it that a man and woman are complementary to each other sexually, whereas homosexual sex is not and cannot be complementary.

The very basic building block of any civilized and ordered society has been the family-this is designed within nature. The family being where humans are created and nurtured. So, when you start redefining the foundation of society, society itself will not only become redefined but disordered.

BTW, same can be said about certain heterosexual behaviors, like adultery, incest, etc. All disordered.

None of this is to say that homosexuals should be denied respect and dignity as persons, they are human beings made in God's image and therefore are equally deserving of dignity as anyone else.

News / Poland rejects international criticism over LGBT rights [28]

Trump doesn't appear to want to fight against the LGBT agenda-I think he's a libertarian when it comes to sexual relations. The US needs to stop promoting it, though. It's one of my few complaints about the Trump admin.

News / Poland rejects international criticism over LGBT rights [28]

Mosbacher is pushing the LGBT agenda in Poland?

Travel / Poland one of the best places to see golden Autumn colours [11]

You can get those Autumn colors throughout much of the US. But Polish Summers are truly sublime.

News / What should Poland do with the problem of Belarus? [1800]


Interesting. I'll check it out.

News / What should Poland do with the problem of Belarus? [1800]


Because i haven't, but without the unity under Solidarity it was highly unlikely the government would have made the concessions it made.

In 80 or 81 the gov was trying to put a wedge between the different industry workers and negotiate relatively meaningless wage increases, e.g. separately negotiating with the strikers in the shipyard and truck factory, etc., correct? It wasn't until all (or, at least, most) of the strikers at different industries demanded the 21 demands as a unified voice did you see the gov willingly, although not in total good faith, start to consider more meaningful demands, correct?

If there wasn't the solidarity under Solidarity, the opposition to the gov would've been markedly weaker and impotent.

Again, I don't refute there was violence on the part of protesters, but it wasn't widespread and sustained and not significant enough to bring the commies to the table. If there's proof that the Solidarity leadership called for or condoned it, I'm unaware of it.

News / What should Poland do with the problem of Belarus? [1800]


But annoyance doesn't mean violence. It overwhelmingly meant strikes and protests, yes? I'm not trying to refute there wasn't any violence, but it was typically, if not always, started by the authorities (what were the security police called back then?), which matters because it shows that demonstrations were peaceful --demonstrators only reacted violently when provoked. And, that's been my point all along, the Solidarity movement was a peaceful movement and its demands were met because of non-violent pressures, not violent ones.


Apparently they did, as they kept propagandizing that evil foreign forces were trying to expand their activities against the state and stuff like that.


That certainly helps, but there still needs to be some legitimacy (granted this legitimacy is typically gained by brainwashing through the education systems and cultural institutions).

That book you recommended is it in English, also. My feeble mind struggles mightily with learning the Polish language.

News / What should Poland do with the problem of Belarus? [1800]

The importance of it all would be to highlight that violence was or was not an effective and important tactic or response to drive the communists to negotiate. If violence against communist authorities was not widespread and sustained (as I understand, it wasn't widespread and sustained, but rare and unsustained), it would not have much if any effect. If it was more common and sustained, it would give the government a reason to negotiate, if for no other reason than keep the Soviets from intervening--something they were prepared to do in 80/81.

You're right, I don't have the experience of living under the regime. My wife and in-laws did, though. So, I know of their experiences. Although, those experiences don't tell me anything about whether or not violent action against the communist regime played a part in the government negotiating with Solidarity.

Didn't you say the Belarussians were being too soft with peaceful demonstrations? Or was that Crow? I get you two confused sometimes; my apologies if you didn't say it.

We agree that communists didn't have patriotic feelings for Poland or cared for the plight of common Polish people, but only cared about power. But, their power depended on what the future of Poland would be--economics plays a central role in that future and a failing economy has a way of putting a regimes power in a precarious position (the uprisings in the 70's and 80 began over food price increases, right?). And, of course they cared what the opinions of the people were, why do you think they had a propaganda division within the government and a tight grip on media?


Well, yeah, but you seem like a guy who has a punch two guys in the face per day quota. :):) What do you think the chances of a Polish victory would've been? And, wouldn't it have been the Polish commies fighting the Soviet commies? However you slice it, you're left with commies.


How? Besides, Pawian says they weren't that damned peaceful anyhow.

News / What should Poland do with the problem of Belarus? [1800]


You just obliterated the study of history. Hahahahaha!!!!!


But how much of the violence was begun by protesters? How often did the protesters react violently to government crackdowns? And, how long was the violent reaction of the protesters sustained?


Urban's "admission" is something to consider and may lead to revising my understanding, but, as a general rule, it's best to heavily scrutinize a professional propagandist. Even if it played a part in the Communists decision the violence was a product of economic and political pressures.

Even though there were some elements within Solidarity (including Church clergy) who wanted to employ violent tactics to confront the government, they didn't gain much influence. Solidarity was a non-violent movement.

My position still remains that the Communists were driven to The Round Table because they knew the fragile Polish economy could not sustain more strikes and lack of production and that the unified voice of the Polish people was an undeniable sign that the political legitimacy of the regime was severely compromised. I wouldn't be surprised that the fear of a violent reprisal was present within the regime, but it wasn't violent protests that drove them to negotiations.


Hold the phone! But, isn't that what you're calling for in Belarus?

News / What should Poland do with the problem of Belarus? [1800]


Yes, it is. But, again, it's not what brought the regime to the negotiation table. If there is evidence that the communist regime wanted to make some concessions with Solidarity because of the violent protests, I'm unaware of it and would be happy to see it.


economic pressures, and political pressures from the multiplying voices of Polish citizens demanding change). You left the remainder of sentence out.

I appreciate and respect the civil suggestion of an compromise, but it wouldn't be accurate. :)

News / What should Poland do with the problem of Belarus? [1800]


I never said it was the only thing that contributed to the fall of communism; I also never said there were never violent confrontations--only that it was the violent confrontations that drove the communists to the negotiating table. Again, was the violence perpetuated by the protesters or the police?

News / What should Poland do with the problem of Belarus? [1800]


EU is not the Church, it pretty much acknowledged it doesn't care to officially recognize its Christian heritage. It's a thoroughgoing secular construct. So, it can't offer a higher truth, only things like policies, laws, and enforcement.

News / What should Poland do with the problem of Belarus? [1800]


Hahahaha...maybe where you live; which I imagine is a place of colorful adventure--mostly psychedelic. :)


Because it's truth and universal, it's for all of us, even the locals.

News / What should Poland do with the problem of Belarus? [1800]


I think you're on to something. :)


No, they are not. Churches are not concerned with controlling governments, but primarily with spreading the Gospel. Churches do want to inform governments of the dignity of the human person and morality, but its by proposition--not legal mandates. Churches, in general, are part of local cultures--they respect and add to the development of local cultures--they don't promote a global unitarian politic, but a universal truth that informs local cultures. They are constructs where the natural world weaves into the supernatural.

Life / Owning a house in true countryside of Poland - stories [692]


Do the branches have any black dots?

News / What should Poland do with the problem of Belarus? [1800]

@ Crow

Poland, freely choose to enter the EU, did it not?


Wasn't there a recent Pew survey that showed something like 75% of Poles had a favorable opinion of the EU? I don't know whether that's accurate or not, but I'm willing to bet neither do you. I strongly dislike supranational government constructs and all that, but Poland wasn't bribed or put under any type of duress to enter the EU. It did it under its own free volition.

Besides, what would a Visegrad union give Poland that would match or be better than what the EU gives it? I mean, other than a slavic boner.


Hahahaha!!!! Isn't that rich?! Maybe the Kremlin has been following PF and has seen your call to a violent uprising.

News / What should Poland do with the problem of Belarus? [1800]


*nods

The West was more confident in its heritage, institutions, and values back then, but there were some signs of erosion.


How do you define free? Seems like you define free as something that must fit into your personal beliefs...seems kind of tyrannical.

News / What should Poland do with the problem of Belarus? [1800]

@ Pawian

Let me clarify: back in 1980, who would've dreamed Poland would be free by 1989? Not too many.

Those pictures of violence in the street in Poland, was the violence perpetuated by the demonstrators or the police?

Most importantly, the communist regime in Poland did not fall because of violent protests, but through more peaceful means (strikes, economic pressures, and political pressures from the multiplying voices of Polish citizens demanding change). Belarus may finally be gathering the multitude of voices to apply the political pressure it needs to get rid of it tyrant--but, it ain't gonna be easy, and I doubt it'll be successful if it becomes violent.

News / What should Poland do with the problem of Belarus? [1800]

But, they may very well abolish themselves with violent demos. Regime change can come through peaceful demos--just look at your country. Who would've thought Poland would be free in 1980?

I'd also think Poland would not want 2 hot civil wars going at its border.