News / Presidential elections 2020 - your opinions about campaign, candidates [2222]


For PiS, traditional values include such things like beating your wife and threatening her with harm: kobieta.onet.pl/wiadomosci/karolina-piasecka-maz-najpierw-domagal-sie-pieniedzy-albo-seksu-potem-mnie-bil

Or other traditional values, such as drink driving: tvn24.pl/wroclaw/lubin-radny-pis-zatrzymany-w-zwiazku-z-podejrzeniem-kierowania-pod-wplywem-alkoholu-ra985076-2293179

Or even other traditional values, like showing children pornographic photos: natemat.pl/301551,radny-pis-z-wyszkowa-slal-dzieciom-zdjecia-porno-mowi-ze-byl-prowokowany

So no, we shouldn't be surprised by a PiS supporter sinking so low, after all, that's exactly where they belong.


If it offers even a small amount of protection to the sick and the elderly, I'm happy to wear one.

News / Presidential elections 2020 - your opinions about campaign, candidates [2222]

Ah, so you're actually not able to understand the science. That makes sense, given your penchant for repeating what politicians tell you to think.

If you'd bothered to actually read the research on the matter, you'd know that a cloth mask is of some use. It might not be as good as a correctly worn N95 mask, but anything that helps to cut down on the infection rate is worthwhile. The idea that cloth masks are 'useless' is laughable, because the evidence shows otherwise.


Reality. The one in which your father's job depends entirely on how much you post on the internet about how great PiS is.

News / Poles say a big YES to our European Union [996]


The EU is none of those things, but I suppose it's caused by a lack of understanding that it's been dominated by Christian Democrats since the founding. It's easy to throw around terms like "neo-marxist" when you have little understanding of how and why the EU came about.

As is clear, Poland is free to leave. It seems that the vast majority prefer membership though, regardless of other rhetoric.


Poland already tried once. Poland backed off as soon as the Slovaks and Czechs made it clear that Poland didn't speak for them, nor did they agree with Poland's views on the EU. As for TSI, it's nothing but a talking shop of minor importance. Come back when the TSI countries actually agree to put up the cash for something more than a once-yearly summit.

News / Presidential elections 2020 - your opinions about campaign, candidates [2222]

The pain of knowing that a PiS activist is concentrating on a minor forum?

Tell us, what's the quota? How many posts does Daddy have to show at the Party meetings?

News / Poles say a big YES to our European Union [996]


Ah yes, yet again accusing others of being what you are yourself. Tell us, which state-owned company does Father work for? You can tell us what your quota is - after all, it's hardly a secret that the whole family is supposed to contribute so that Father can show off at Party meetings.


Nowhere near as much as it would be under a new EU with a focus on wealthy northern members. Poland has nothing to gain from such a scenario and everything to lose, not least because surrounding countries would want nothing to do with a scenario in which Poland dictates things. You've also forgotten that for countries such as Estonia and Croatia, they have no desire to break up the EU or go it alone.

The choice for Poland in such a scenario would be to either accept the rules of the New EU (which would be massively in favour of the wealthier nations) or to go it alone. The UK has at least London and a huge amount of dirty cash, what does Poland have?


Until you tell the farmers in Eastern Poland that they will no longer get subsidies, but instead, they'll be expected to compete on the open market. Any government proposing to go down this route would face an electoral bloc of around 3m people, perhaps more.

It's also worth looking beyond the headlines regarding the Karlsruhe judgement. What's actually happened is that the ECB now has to justify its actions, and has three months to do so. Germans are masters of realpolitik, and a solution will be found.

News / Presidential elections 2020 - your opinions about campaign, candidates [2222]


Dear Spike, if you're going to make such claims as:


Then you need to back it up with some evidence. It's really quite simple, isn't it?


This is worth a read - medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.17.20069567v1.full.pdf - while it hasn't been peer-reviewed yet to my knowledge, they suggest that masks can reduce the amount of particles inhaled by around 75%.

From a Polish perspective, last weekend proved that it's pointless asking people to wear masks if you're not going to enforce the rules.

As for the poster above, it's pretty obvious that he's reposting the messages from Nowogrodzka and ignoring the current trends. He might want to worry more about WKK and Hołowina, as both of them look like a serious threat in the 2nd round.

News / Presidential elections 2020 - your opinions about campaign, candidates [2222]

Still wondering which measure you're using.

News / Presidential elections 2020 - your opinions about campaign, candidates [2222]


According to which measure? Given that the purpose is to avoid infecting others, not to protect yourself...

Still, it's good fun to watch the anti-mask crazies attack PiS.

News / Poles say a big YES to our European Union [996]


That's simply not true. Brexit was the end of a process that started in 1975, including situations such as the Maastricht Rebels where the treaty in question barely got through parliament.

And you do realise that if the EU ends, Poland will be plunged into an even worse crisis than now? Do you really think a new German-dominated New-EU bloc made up of the richest members are going to be anything but ruthless in their negotiations?

News / Presidential elections 2020 - your opinions about campaign, candidates [2222]

I know one quite honest PiS supporter who says that Duda wasn't meant to win. He was intended as a weak candidate that could be blamed internally for losing, and no-one quite expected him to fight as hard as he did. Of course, they wouldn't have predicted that Komorowski would run probably the worst campaign since 1990.

He's obviously a very weak person, but when you think about the illegal things he did, he clearly knows that any attempt to move outside JK's circle will result in the state going after him heavily. There's already strong evidence of his wrongdoing (flying at the taxpayer's expense to teach at a private university) in the past, and he will be painfully aware that PiS are malicious.

Agata Duda's body language is fascinating, though. There's no real evidence that she's happy with the situation, especially when even her own brother has made it clear that he despises PiS.

I've just read something very interesting. It turns out that the masks that came on the Antonov are simply useless (as was known almost as soon as they arrived), but that they also cost nearly 8PLN each for single use disposable masks. Let's remember that the same masks can be purchased in places like Zabka for 1.62PLN each.

The company that sold them turns out to have been founded by an ex-WSI officer, too. Let's also remember that according to PiS, WSI was the enemy.

Perhaps our new PiS activist can provide us with the rationale for such a purchase?

News / Poles say a big YES to our European Union [996]


They basically get their orders daily from Nowogrodzka, and they're told to go out and disseminate that message on the wider internet. It's quite pathetic, especially when you see posters such as the one above who can't explain why the election wasn't held.

PiS are clearly terrified that Duda is going to lose, and with the opinion polls now showing that Duda will struggle to win in the 2nd round, I wouldn't be surprised if they call a state of emergency in the coming weeks simply to delay the inevitable.

Travel / Sułoszowa is one of the longest villages in Poland [7]

I really can't stand this. It just creates endless urban sprawl, and means that these villages have no real 'centre'.

News / Presidential elections 2020 - your opinions about campaign, candidates [2222]


Why, does it conflict with the messages from Nowogrodzka? The best thing is that PF is based in the US, so you can't and won't censor this forum.


I think he's at this point now where he knows that it's all or nothing, and if he fails, there's a very real chance that he'll end up spending the rest of his life fighting legal action. He's going to be acutely aware that an economic crisis was enough to finish off Gomułka and Gierek, and a fall in income (in real terms) by 10% or worse - 4% fall in GDP, inflation of basic goods is skyrocketing - will hurt their support considerably.

The latest Presidential poll shows that Duda won't win in the 1st round, and that Hołowina or WKK are his likely challengers. With Konfederacja now clearly coming out against PiS, where will Duda get a majority from?

News / Poles say a big YES to our European Union [996]


It's very easy to spot paid PiS activists, because they always accuse others of doing what they do themselves.

News / Presidential elections 2020 - your opinions about campaign, candidates [2222]

It's interesting to see how PiS trolls are now targeting PF with their disinformation.

News / Presidential elections 2020 - your opinions about campaign, candidates [2222]


On the other hand, if he doesn't act now, he's probably finished politically. He has the numbers to put PiS into minority, but it would be one hell of a gamble.

I'm just not convinced that the opposition want to bring down this government. There will be a tremendous amount of pain in winter, and I'm not sure that any of them want to take responsibility for it.

News / Presidential elections 2020 - your opinions about campaign, candidates [2222]


I'd say it's exactly what Poland needs right now. A government which has abandoned all dialogue with anyone except their own echo chambers is not a good one, and getting rid of it can only help. PiS haven't got a clue how to get out of this mess, not least because their support effectively depends on electoral sausage.

Strange things are going on tonight as well, with Pawłowicz talking about minority governments.

News / Presidential elections 2020 - your opinions about campaign, candidates [2222]

Ah yes, a nice new troll.

Do tell us about the huge rise in salaries in the Prime Minister's office and the President's chancellery. For bonus points, can you tell us why many of the bonuses awarded were never returned, despite promises to the contrary?

Certainly a not very clued up troll though, given that the title "Marshal of Poland" was last held by one Marian Spychalski.

News / Poles say a big YES to our European Union [996]


Imagine the panic in Poland! People could barely handle PO deregulating things, can you imagine if they were suddenly told that their farms had to be profitable or they would be left to rot? It would be for the best in the long run, but you'd have millions of villagers from Eastern Poland out with their pitchforks, demanding that they get subsidies for their useless farm.

News / Presidential elections 2020 - your opinions about campaign, candidates [2222]


At this point, even they have to be in disbelief at just how much nonsense they can tell their electorate.

Those protests in Warsaw are getting interesting. Paweł Tanajno has gone from nobody to a somebody in the space of two days, but what's genuinely interesting is that we're seeing the first real right wing protest against PiS since 2015.

News / Presidential elections 2020 - your opinions about campaign, candidates [2222]

And that there is textbook commie thinking, even down to the random Jewish reference without context.

News / Presidential elections 2020 - your opinions about campaign, candidates [2222]

Ah yes, the Polonia, who take absolutely no responsibility for their actions.

I bet you're loving the idea of a single party state. Tell us, was your grandfather a commie who had to leave in 1968?

News / Presidential elections 2020 - your opinions about campaign, candidates [2222]

Of course, Konfederacja will only exist for as long as PiS allow them to.

As an aside, Konfederacja abstained on the postal vote today. That effectively means they voted for postal voting.

News / Presidential elections 2020 - your opinions about campaign, candidates [2222]


I wouldn't say very well (the reference to Hungary was particularly lame, given that Hungary has given diplomatic immunity to a Russian bank), but he did well to highlight the absurdity of buying expensive military hardware from the US, as well as highlighting Duda's broken promises.

WKK probably won it with the pen, and Hołownia was solid too.

Duda and MKB were both incredibly poor.

Travel / What color is the water in the Baltic? [13]


I tried it once after years of swimming in the Adriatic. I was in Darłowo visiting friends, and it was a week of 30c weather. Perfect time to try swimming, right?

Got in, and it was cold and disgusting. The water temperature in the height of summer was around 19c, it clearly wasn't clean, and the beach was packed with idiots with their parawany. Never again.

News / Presidential elections 2020 - your opinions about campaign, candidates [2222]

No, you've mixed it up slightly. Basically, the Sejm already passed the law, but the Senate threw the law out. As a result, it has to return to the Sejm so that the Senate's amendment (i.e. binning it) can be considered. The Sejm can choose to accept or reject the amendments made by the Sejm, or it can be placed in the legislative freezer if the Marshal doesn't choose to bring it to the Sejm.

So, what's happening right now is that the formal documentation has to be delivered to the Sejm by 23:00. The Sejm cannot consider the Senate's amendments until the paperwork has been filed, so the clock is still ticking. If it doesn't get delivered by 23:00, it will be automatically deemed that the Senate had no position (due to the requirement for the Senate to make a decision within 30 days, otherwise the law is automatically considered to have passed the Senate without amendment). However, the plan is that the Senate will deliver the documentation as soon as the three MP's taking part in tonight's debate have arrived in the Sejm - the two buildings are next to each other. That should take place in the next 10 minutes or so.

Once the documents are delivered, PiS can bring it to a vote at any time. However, they need to be able to win the vote - from a technical point of view, they also need to have a quorum (so at least half the MP's need to be logged into the voting system). If they attempt a snap vote, it'll be enough for the opposition to simply not log into the system alongside at least 6 from the ruling coalition. So, PiS are unlikely to put it to a vote unless they know they've got 231. As far as I'm aware, there's no tie-breaker - 230/230 results in the bill not being accepted.

One nuclear option that PiS have is to refuse to accept the documentation, but this would almost certainly be a coup d'etat. PiS are unlikely to have the strength to succeed with such a move, and it would without doubt trigger an immediate vote of no confidence in the Marshal and the government.


I think it's becoming clear that he thought that he could pull this off, but he clearly didn't anticipate just how difficult it was to organise. For that reason, I'm convinced they'll announce tomorrow/on Friday that the new election date is May 23rd, and then they'll try and win a vote on postal voting.

The big question is what happens if they lose the vote on postal voting. The choices are that Duda resigns or a state of emergency is declared. Neither is a good option from the point of view of PiS - economic reality will hurt them badly by then.

Update: Kaczyński gave up. Elections in August.

News / Presidential elections 2020 - your opinions about campaign, candidates [2222]

If I understand the law on the state of emergency correctly, the law is full of "the government can....", not "the government must...". So, for instance, they can declare a state of emergency at 12:00, issue regulations postponing the election, then cancel the state of emergency as soon as the regulations have been published. They aren't under any obligation to actually do anything else.


I suspect that if that happens, they'll start to enforce the mask laws more seriously. Right now, a lot of people simply aren't following the rules properly.

News / Presidential elections 2020 - your opinions about campaign, candidates [2222]


According to the exact legal situation, not necessarily - the default position is that the election goes ahead on the 10th May in a traditional form.

However, in practice, it's impossible to organise such an election without the cooperation of local governments. They can use some legal tricks to delay the election until the 23rd, but it's very clear that it would result in a huge amount of chaos.

The most likely scenario is a state of emergency being declared, or if Kaczyński wants to risk it, new elections in August for both the National Assembly and the President.

The news today is that PiS were trying to hold a session of the Sejm during the same time as the debate broadcast on TVP, but the Senate outsmarted them - they won't deliver the formal objections to the law until ąbout 22:00. They have until 23:00 to formally register their rejection of the draft law.

Other interesting news is that opposition MP's are headed into the Sejm now, and that there seems to be unity among all the opposition parties, including Konfederacja.

I am almost certain that PiS will try some dirty tricks this evening to pass the law.

News / Presidential elections 2020 - your opinions about campaign, candidates [2222]


They are, and there's no real logic to it. They've told people that it's not safe to loan out library books for 2 weeks after they're returned, but they're happy for people to handle ballot papers 24-48 hours after being packed. It's illogical.

I suspect that they simply don't know what to do. Kaczyński knows that Duda's support will start to slip in the coming months as the economic damage comes clear, especially if large amounts of younger people no longer have summer jobs. Yet, they could have proposed to change the regulations so that the election could be held up until 21 days before the end of the President's term, giving them some time to reopen society.

Update: The Senate rejected postal voting by 50 votes to 36. Now the law returns to the Sejm. As a reminder, elections are supposed to be held on Sunday, and there's no provisions in place for them to take place.

On an unrelated piece of news, the Acting First President of the Supreme Court, a puppet appointed by Duda, has declared that the disciplinary chamber of the Supreme Court is now functioning again, despite the clear order from the European Court of Justice for it to be suspended. I fully expect that a new puppet First President (probably the same as this one) will be appointed as a result, and democracy is one step closer to ending in Poland.

(awaiting comments from Ironside, who will tell us how great it is that the government controls the judiciary, just like it was before 1989).

News / Presidential elections 2020 - your opinions about campaign, candidates [2222]


In fairness, I thought this was more proof of just how great she is. She's doing such a tremendous job of bashing on the government's door as soon as there's any threat whatsoever to American interests, while she seems to have been heavily involved in convincing PiS to shell out for American weaponry over domestically produced weapons. Regardless of your political view, she's doing a truly tremendous job of representing American interests abroad.

Anyway, something interesting: the polls are showing a definitive shift towards Hołowina. It seems that he's picking up serious momentum among supporters of the opposition, but he's also picking up some support from Konfederacja too. If the election is delayed by 2 weeks and ends up being held conventionally, then there are serious questions about whether Duda can actually beat Hołowina head to head, especially given that the economic problems are only getting worse.