History / Warsaw Rising 1944 - National Disaster or Triumph of Spirit ? [515]


You just made the SS look a lot better.

History / Warsaw Rising 1944 - National Disaster or Triumph of Spirit ? [515]

Your post has too many hedges. From "so to speak" to "in effect". In my world where precision and dispassionate thinking is highly valued, they either were card-carrying members of the Nazi party or they were not. Like being married or pregnant. You are or you are not, with no shades of gray to make weaseling out later more convenient.

And that "forced to swear"....If you are forced to swear, you are not swearing. You are mumbling words that carry zero moral or legal weight.

History / Warsaw Rising 1944 - National Disaster or Triumph of Spirit ? [515]

Did they belong to the Nazi party?
Nazi by definition: a member of the National Socialist German Workers' Party.
If they didn't, Iron may actually be correct.

History / Warsaw Rising 1944 - National Disaster or Triumph of Spirit ? [515]


No.
It was the US or "America" who dropped two nukes, not the Democrats. Hence, we say: When the Americans dropped...not when the Democrats dropped...

Germany and the German army should be treated similarly, and their war crimes and criminals separately. Even the SS, since not everyone who was in the SS was a war criminal.

Really simple when one thinks.

....you could offer the explanation as I did above. Thanks. I sensed that there has to be a reason for it.

History / Warsaw Rising 1944 - National Disaster or Triumph of Spirit ? [515]

You are too brilliant for me....

History / Warsaw Rising 1944 - National Disaster or Triumph of Spirit ? [515]

Why do you think so many say Nazis rather thanGermans?

Also, Hitlerowcy is not accurate. Hitlerowcy were the followers. If the 42 attempts on his life were any indication, many Germans would kill the sob with their own bare hands but couldn't.

Drafted and facing swift execution for disobedience, lumping all Germans into Hitlerowcy smells like internal Polish politics and to sound angry while, at the same time, nice to the contemporary Germans. It wasn't you; it was those bad Nazis.

My best guess without proof is that both Nazis and Hitlerowce are the new politically correct Euro terms to minimize Germany's responsibility because Germany is now a friend. Nazis appears to absolve a large segment who didn't belong to the party. Cheering crowds who didn't have to are now off the hook as naive dupes. Sure,

I noticed the same is done in the UK and, more specifically, in the BBC war TV productions. It's always Nazis, not Germans.

History / Warsaw Rising 1944 - National Disaster or Triumph of Spirit ? [515]


I so wish Poles and others would stop using the termNazis in lieu of Germans. Huge difference.
I am really curios why it is happening.

History / Warsaw Rising 1944 - National Disaster or Triumph of Spirit ? [515]

OK. At the end of the day, as they say, I appreciate your proactive contribution here - even when we disagree. No, I didn't mean to be patronizing.

History / Warsaw Rising 1944 - National Disaster or Triumph of Spirit ? [515]

To an outsider like me, the ultimate irony are the emotions expressed here at this forum toward Germany vs Russia. The friendliness to the former who brought death to Poland and the hostility to the latter who, at great sacrifice, made it free just does not compute.

I am almost done with the subject of the Warsaw Uprising. The reason I decided to say my piece is that I was directly involved in it as a two-year-old kid. I don't know if at some point Germans tried to use me as a shield. Maybe they did and, as is my habit, I gave them a mouthful, so they gave up and left me with my present nasty personality. I don't know.

To their credit, and probably contrary to the bleeding touchy feely softies, the AK fighters didn't stop shooting just because there was a child in the window. Like paying ransom. You get more of it if you do. That was a good decision which convinced Germans that using kids as shields was useless.

Finally, to my credit, notice that I didn't say NAZI's.

History / Warsaw Rising 1944 - National Disaster or Triumph of Spirit ? [515]


It boils down to the son test. How would you react to your 18-year-old son's decision to risk his life to "contain communism" 10,000 miles away while your corrupt government is not even calling it a war but a police action and fights with both hands tied behind their DC backs. The answer is either yes, no, or I don't care.

Back to Poland. "Death, destruction, suffering, loss" were 100% predictable. Some in gray suits should have been charged criminally for the decision.
To your credit, at least you didn't list liberation of Poland in the plus column.

No knowledge is worth dying for. Or sending somebody's son to die for. Like in "Hey, Janek, see that German tank? Go and take it out so we can find out how reckless and irrational decisions produce death, destruction, suffering, and loss fifty years later".

News / Poland's LBGT Seen as Dangerous Foreign Idea. [39]


That "live and let live" works only if I know your end point. Liberals have no end points. Each step is immediately viewed is in the bag and the fights starts all over for the next hill.

You ask where the "struggle" ends, the left never answers.

News / Poland's LBGT Seen as Dangerous Foreign Idea. [39]


What disparity?
Law does not recognize a relationship between a guy and his sister, even if she had hysterectomy to eliminate birth defects. No disparity, or is there?

Why would law recognize, register, and validate what mentally ill or mentally disturbed people do?

You can dance forever about this and I will out dance you because the facts and logic are on my side. You see, there is a difference between tolerance and accommodation as we practice with the Down, the blind and the deaf people and full normalization.

You can try to cram the gay thing down our throats but we will never say it was yummy.

News / Poland's LBGT Seen as Dangerous Foreign Idea. [39]

Their relationship is already legal. Nobody is going to prison for being homosexual.
They are not prevented from making medical decisions. That's what the power of attorney is for.
They can write the will and name anyone as the beneficiary like you or me.
They get the Social Security and Medicare benefits like everyone else.

Anything else?

News / Poland's LBGT Seen as Dangerous Foreign Idea. [39]


A meaningless one-liner. Sometimes we don't when a pregnancy is inconvenient.


And what rights would those be that they don't already have - like you and me?

News / Poland's LBGT Seen as Dangerous Foreign Idea. [39]


You should be ashamed of yourself. Show some compassion for that mentally ill guy, instead.

Genealogy / Adopted from Poland; trying to find my biological parents [99]

Such re-unions with the natural parents seldom end well. Life is not a Lifetime movie.

History / Warsaw Rising 1944 - National Disaster or Triumph of Spirit ? [515]


The last one who could have prevented it - the insurgent who lifted the cover. Not intentionally, of course, but recklessly. A Polish version of the Trojan horse.

Do you know how many Americans - just as naive and careless as that insurgent - died in Vietnam because they stupidly picked up a cute plastic doll than went boom?

What did the insurgents think was in that tank? Food and medical supplies? Even then, why trust that they were not poisoned?
The difference between you and me could not be any greater. When I see the Vietnam wall in the DC, my only question is: what did we, the US, get for this horrendous loss of good men? Nothing but humiliation of defeat, 250,000 wounded, and quarter trillion bucks wasted. I am not even counting the dead Vietnamese who did nothing wrong to us.

So, I am going to ask you the same question: What did Poles get for the thousands who died during and after the Uprising? Please, do not mention pride and any other "feelings" because nobody sane would risk his life for another guy to "feel" better. At best, it's an unintended by-product.

History / Warsaw Rising 1944 - National Disaster or Triumph of Spirit ? [515]

How about just one answer that explains what happened instead of four rhetorical questions that don't.

History / Warsaw Rising 1944 - National Disaster or Triumph of Spirit ? [515]


So, what killed those 500, the insurgents or the Germans?

History / Poland, Ukraine population loss in 20-th century [15]

It's no going to make a dent. For reference, a baby from conception till 18 is a quarter million buck undertaking here. That amount buys a lot of BMW's and vacations in Aspen so why ruin that with kids.

Plus, the wife is probably the bread winner and guys, even after the transition, are still not capable of making babies. Big problem and not going away any time soon.

Only a major war can produce another baby boom.

UK, Ireland / Why are Polish people, especially women, so disrespectful toward the English? [437]


That's self-evident, so why say it. There is no such thing as the truth anymore and I am entitled to mine. Why? Because a man with both balls, dick, and a prostate gland can now compete with the middle school girls.

Welcome to the world of the lying leftists to whom the "objective truth" is now hate speech.

History / Warsaw Rising 1944 - National Disaster or Triumph of Spirit ? [515]


You have it upside down. The Soviets - not the Russians - didn't need the Warsaw Uprising to win WW2. It's the Uprisers who needed the Soviets. They acted foolishly by springing the Uprising on the Soviets and paid for it dearly. Unfortunately, so did the thousands.

Hey, a-holes, I am not going to respond to personal insults. So, if this is your MO, go f*ck yourself. Now, you can complain to the mods.


Anyone who fights "against ridiculous odds" is a moron, or, at best, a mindless robot, not a hero. A hero puts only his own life at risk. A reckless idiot involves others who have nothing to gain from that idiot's heroism. Poland was about to be free, the Uprising or not. All they had to do is lay low and wait, so your choices are...

Never mind.


I would look at my wife and my kids when they are asleep and ask myself this question: what, on earth, is worth their lives? It would take me 5ms to answer it then and now: absolutely nothing. And, if I could, I would move them to where they would be safe and leave the killing and the dying to those who don't mind being manipulated by the suits. In Warsaw, London, or in Washington.

Patriotism, just like religion, is just a tool the suits have to f*ck with your obedient brains.

History / Warsaw Rising 1944 - National Disaster or Triumph of Spirit ? [515]

Is it possible that if the AK coordinated the Uprising with the Soviets to make their crossing the river safer and sooner into the sections where AK was in control, then the liberation of Warsaw would be a lot less bloody?

History / Warsaw Rising 1944 - National Disaster or Triumph of Spirit ? [515]

Therefore what as it relates to the Uprising? What you wrote is self-evident, except for intensity of feelings which is open to debate.
Plus, the way you wrote does not make it clear who hated whom in that matrix of hateful madness. I, for one, hate the American liberals like Pelosi and AOC a lot more that I hate Germans or Russians. Actually, the last two groups I don't hate at all.

History / Warsaw Rising 1944 - National Disaster or Triumph of Spirit ? [515]


If you want to quote, quote. Paraphrasing is not quoting.
I wrote:


If you want to offer a different opinion, do it, instead of that sarcastic "really" question.

Your amazement at my claim should be followed by yours. Like this:

There was a reasonable probability that the Soviets army would run into such German resistance in Poland that they - the Soviets - would never be able to go all the way to Berlin.

Is this what you are claiming?

There is no other claim you can make IF you want to challenge mine. Which, of course, would be laughable. I mean that the Soviets would be defeated in the battle for Poland, and that Germany, being on its last legs, would be victorious and capable of continued occupation of Poland.

Your post is a classic example of what happens when the poster reacts irrationally and emotionally without thinking things through and resorts to that standard deflection of "Really?" Yes, really. The war was already in the bag. The reason it continued was an unreasonable idiot at the top and the unreasonably obedient idiots at the bottom.

History / Warsaw Rising 1944 - National Disaster or Triumph of Spirit ? [515]

It's not academic. My question is pertinent since the liberation of Poland from the Germans was already 100% assured without the Uprising. My question was as valid as asking why someone would say in the morning: Sun! Please rise! And then claiming that saying it helped Sun rise. It didn't and neither did the Uprising affect the ultimate outcome of WW2 - a defeated Germany.

Milo's post would make sense if the Uprising's objective was to obstruct the Soviet army. In fact, it would be a very good plan if it were the plan, not just a post-fact realization. But, then, nobody should blame the Soviets for not liking it.

On the other hand, the post-war Europe was already allocated to the four powers, so, this argument falls apart. What's left is that AK was supposed to be a poison pill for the USSR to prevent them from installing their version of Polish government. Which, as I wrote before, made the Uprising a purely political move and impossible to justify without wrapping it in the Civics 101 heroics at the street level and never mind the suits in London.

History / Warsaw Rising 1944 - National Disaster or Triumph of Spirit ? [515]

I will take your last post for what it says, not sarcasm, and conclude that you and other Poles act the same way as the American parents do when they get a flag and the coffin.

To stay sane, they have to justify the bullsh*t their son died for in Iraq or Afghanistan and tell everybody how "he died for our freedom". You, Poles, know that the Uprising was just that - a bullsh*t and a colossal waste of human life, Germans included. Yes, they were people, too, and counting days to be back home with their families. And that, as in the past, the suits in London were playing the same sick game of being hostile to Germany and the USSR at the same time, as in 1939.

In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if the military analysts concluded at some point that the Uprising actually slowed down the Soviets and, thus, prolonged the war.

History / Warsaw Rising 1944 - National Disaster or Triumph of Spirit ? [515]


An objective, but not the primary or, better yet, the ultimate. The war was winding down and there was ZERO doubt that Germany would lose and that the Soviet army would be victorious and in control of Poland.

Your reply would suggest that without the Warsaw Uprising the outcome would have been different, which is nonsense.


That's the means. You might just as well say that the objective was to kill Germans. The real and the ultimate objectives - not the steps leading to it - were discussed in London. They discussed the possible outcomes, too. Are there any documents that explain why the Uprising was ordered and was worth the risks with the war outcome already known. How many Polish lives lost could be justified to make the war end sooner?

So, my question still stands. Knowing that the war will be won by the Soviets and the US anyway and soon, what was the purpose of the Uprising?

If you decide to reply, spare me personal comments and the sophomoric crap like "to kick Hitler's buttuski to Kingdom come".

History / Warsaw Rising 1944 - National Disaster or Triumph of Spirit ? [515]

So, what was the PRIMARY objective of the Warsaw Uprising?

History / History of two Neighbors: Poland - Germany Interrelations [283]


That is why Africa must be contained, not drained.