News / THE ARMY OF POLAND - THE REALITY [493]


If an actual combat veteran describing his experience of employing various machines is "manipulative" and "propaganda"... then I don't know how to help you.

This is a thread about the "reality" of the Polish armed forces.

You should thank me, but instead you go into patriotic psychosis like my own compatriots that think it's some kind of betrayal to admit that the West does some things better.

You cannot hope to become stronger, or even more - overcome, if you insist on maintaining this blinkered approach. The only way to improve, is to stare the unpleasant facts in the face. At least for Russia, that is the prescription/cure. Maybe you can afford to hide the EU and NATO, and never have to admit a single flaw...

News / THE ARMY OF POLAND - THE REALITY [493]


I'm the biggest specialist on Ukraine here.

I have family in Ukraine.

I dated a Ukrainian girl for seven years.

I read/watch probably 1-2 hrs of Ukrainian media per day.

Finally, I speak Ukrainian.

What you have is some GW and Onet articles that are 200 words long - and from which you form your opinions.

News / THE ARMY OF POLAND - THE REALITY [493]


It may be cynical for Poles to muse out loud about this subject... but my question is who the hell is going to pay for this corruption bonanza?

Will it be Russia's frozen $300B?

Different organizations, such as the World Bank, have already estimated the reconstruction bill to be in the $700B to $1T range. Where's the rest of the money gonna come from?

Maybe kind Papa Biden will come, and shower everybody with freshly printed dollars? What's another trillion to him, when he's regularly minting US budgets with deficits in excess of a trillion dollars?

If you expect Russia to pay a single cent towards reconstruction of anything which is not under our control, then you should see a psychiatrist.

News / THE ARMY OF POLAND - THE REALITY [493]


Ukrainians never had a high opinion of Poland.

Don't show me any polls/surveys - it's simply a fact.

There was a moment where it seemed there was a chance for friendship, but then it reverted back to the historic norm.

Ukrainian hate ranking:

1) Russians/Poles
2) Jews
3) Gypsies
4) Magyars
5) Turks

Depending if they come from the Left Bank of the Dniepr, or the Right Bank, they will hate either Poles or Russians more.

Russia is hated because it is the "butcher", the "invader".

Poles are hated in part due to history, but also due to envy. Ukraine's national idea between 1991 and 2014 was catch up to, and overtake Poland. They want Poland to once again be smaller economically and in population than them.

News / THE ARMY OF POLAND - THE REALITY [493]


They say German armor only, can stop loitering drones. Thanks to so called "hedgehog" armor.

These Germans, maybe they are more clever than you?

Photos:

P.S. can't post photo for some reason, but you can see in Ukrainian-language article above.

You boys are engaged in same game that Russian "patriots" are engaged in.

News / THE ARMY OF POLAND - THE REALITY [493]


Stop it.

Remember these are men using your equipment.

Not fat bureaucrats stuffing their pockets.

They are telling you objective criticism of your machines. It would be prudent to listen, instead of falling into patriotic psychosis.

News / THE ARMY OF POLAND - THE REALITY [493]


Poles, if going by their ancestry, would make not great artillery men - but great storm troopers.

Perfect for battles like Bakhmut, Soledar, Lisichansk, Severodonetsk, Avdeevka and Chasov Yar.

A proper use of their retarded heroism and bravery.

Can you imagine the joy on both sides if a Polish battalion-sized assault occurred against a Ukrainian trench line?

Even a Russian, would probably sit down on a nearby stump, light up a cigarette, and simply observe the unfolding glory.

News / THE ARMY OF POLAND - THE REALITY [493]

@Crow

Bottom line of my post is that Poles cannot make a decent self propelled artillery, because their arms grow out of their ass and their level of engineering is reflective of this pathology.

Apologies for the automated translation from Ukrainian into English above. It was such a long quote, I was too lazy. Substitute "car" for "machine", and "climbed inside" for "fit into".

How proud Kania was of these SPAs! Hahaha!

And Pawian - he was telling me it was the pinnacle of artillery design!

Btw, this Ukrainian was wrong - there is a system better than the PzH 2000 - and that is the even newer Koalitsiya. Also with autoloader, also with great armor, also with great ammo location, but higher rate of fire, and faster deployment.

News / THE ARMY OF POLAND - THE REALITY [493]

Ukrainian artillery men are sh*tting on the AHS Krab self propelled artillery, manufactured by Huta Stalowa Wola (HSW).

They state that the German PzH 2000 is light years ahead of the Polish creation. Across the board - in terms of ease of use, armor, barrel lifetime, and ultimate crew survivability.

Direct and rather lengthy quote from Andrey Kobzar, commander of a PzH 2000 unit in the 43rd Artillery Brigade:

Ну я вам так скажу: я не залазив в AS-90, я під-час БД не залазив у М109, проте це простіші машини. От у що я залазив з машин подібного класу - це у AHS Krab. Я його бачив, і одразу хочу вам сказати: це недороблена, непродумана і дуже сира машина. Її поляки "допилювали" 20 років і так її й не доробили. В ній хаотично розтиканий БК, тонка броня. Це провал.

Ліпше за PZH-2000, яка чудово захищена, з значним модернізаційним потенціалом, та АВТОМАТИЧНОЮ ПОДАЧОЮ СНАРЯДІВ немає нічого. Якщо у тебе прямі руки, й ти достатньо обслуговуєш всі необхідні механізми, то до снарядів ти доторкаєшся лише тоді, коли вантажиш БК в САУ. Після того можна стріляти як завгодно, проте до снаряду доторкатися не доведеться. А в Крабі такого немає, там ти все ручками тягати, що вже говорити про простіші машинки.

А якщо є бажання загалом порівняти Краб та PzH-2000, то зайдіть на Oryx та порівняйте втрати. Верифіковано втрату 28 Крабів, а їх було 80. Втратили третину, третину! І якщо поглянути на фото уражених машин, то дуже частим явищем є детонація САУ, разом з екіпажем.

А от Панцергаубиць 27 штук, скільки з них знищено? Немає таких. Про пошкоджені я знаю, але їх кількість можна перелічити на пальцях однієї руки. А такого, щоб БК детонував чи хтось з членів екіпажу загинув - та ніколи. Тут вже питання грамотності компоновки САУ.

English translation:

Well, I'll tell you this: I didn't fit into the AS-90, I didn't fit into the M109 during the DB, but these are simpler cars. This is what I climbed into from cars of this class - this is from the AHS Krab. I saw it, and I want to tell you right away: this is an unfinished, ill-conceived and very crude machine. The Poles spent 20 years finishing it and never finished it. It has random ammo and thin armor. This is a failure.

There is nothing better than the perfectly protected PZH-2000 with significant modernization potential and AUTOMATIC SHELL FEED. If you have straight hands, and you sufficiently maintain all the necessary mechanisms, then you only touch the shells when loading the ammunition into the self-propelled gun. After this, you can shoot as you like, but you won't have to touch the projectile. But in Crab there is no such thing, there you carry everything with your hands, let alone simpler machines.

And if you want to compare the Crab and PzH-2000, then go to Oryx and compare losses. The loss of 28 Crabs was verified, and there were 80 of them. We lost a third, a third! And if you look at the photos of the affected vehicles, a very common occurrence is the detonation of self-propelled guns, along with the crew.

But there are 27 Panzerhowitzers, how many of them were destroyed? There are no such. I know about the damaged ones, but their number can be counted on the fingers of one hand. And such that the ammunition detonates or one of the crew members dies - and never. There is already a question of literacy in the layout of self-propelled guns.

Sources:

PL: polon.pl/news/ukrainski-dowodca-o-polskim-krabie-niedorobiony-nieprzemyslany-prymitywny/

UA: drukarnia.com.ua/articles/intervyu-z-andriyem-kobzarem-dosvidchenim-artileristom-i-komandirom-rozrakhunku-panzerhaubitze-2000-OULoB

Travel / Poles as tourists in foreign countries [93]


I have a literal Polish plumber in my building, a guy named Anton.

Well, he always tells me he is a Slovak, that grew up in Poland, but for me he's a Pole.

Let me tell you - I'm so afraid of Anton, that unless I know there is a risk of flooding other people I don't call him.

Dealing with Anton is quite a bit more stressful than dealing with some of my counterparts.

With Russians, we say, they are slow burning and then finally they explode.

Poles - first they explode, then they burn.


Acceptable.

Travel / Poles as tourists in foreign countries [93]

@Torq
Erasing Poles through some nuclear holocaust would be the greatest ever Russian foreign policy mistake - in all of our nation's history.

Poles and Russians are brothers - this much is clear to me.

Catholic, violent, and emotionally unbalanced - but still brothers.

History / Pol-Shorpy Photo Thread [950]


Muahahahaha

History / Pol-Shorpy Photo Thread [950]


Ahhhh, home!

Travel / Poles as tourists in foreign countries [93]


Have not heard this one, but I like it!

There was a family ahead of me. Father, mother, three small kids.

He was very fit, and made me feel a little self conscious.

But she was amazing... Thin, tall, and with the most amazing smile. Kids from another family would dive under the divider, and play with her kids - and she would light up with a smile that made the heart sing.

Then, when some Polish babushka had trouble understanding the black guy working for LOT in Newark, she stepped in and translated with the most delightful accent.

I was looking at them, and thinking... is this really who we are to drop some nuclear bombs on???

Good people.

Travel / Poles as tourists in foreign countries [93]

@Torq

So no protest at you having big noses?

The person I was with, though from Ukraine, has always claimed to me to be Polish by blood.
In that line, she told me - look they all have big noses like me!

Big, impressive noses.

Travel / Poles as tourists in foreign countries [93]


You are right.


Yes!

I don't understand, why two guys standing 40 centimeters away from each other, in an absolutely silent train car, feel the need to tell their story about what happened at the construction site that morning at 110 decibels.

But I also like it, when my favorite guy at the local Subway shop greets me like I'm king Ashurbanipal III entering Nineveh.

Travel / Poles as tourists in foreign countries [93]


I immediately remarked upon this to my friend.

When people from Russia visit me in America, they're always astonished at how extremely loud Americans are. A typical sentiment is, "I can't hear myself think in this restaurant".

Now, when I go home people tell me to keep my voice down, because "the whole restaurant can hear about your problems". I'm realizing I'm becoming loud as well.

In that line to the check in desk, we were definitely the loudest people there.

Even when people get plastered in Eastern Europe, it doesn't even approach the level of loudness from some Puerto Rican or Black mom in the subway casually herding her kids into the train car.

A Russian concert, is probably still quieter than your average American tailgate party consisting of just 10 people.

But I think it's not only Russians and Poles that consider Americans ridiculously loud - but all of Europe and Asia.

You guys have to go to Africa to find your peers.

Travel / Poles as tourists in foreign countries [93]

A few days ago, I took someone here in New York to the airport in Newark, so they could catch a LOT flight to Rzeszow.

This flight flies only once a week, on Sundays.

The rest of the time you have to take indirect flights going to Warsaw first.

My expectation was that I would see a lot of the typical crowd of spies, defense contractors, big muscly men my age, reporters, etc.

Barely saw any of these. Mostly just Polish families. Actually few Ukrainians... Here are my impressions in bullet list:

1) Poles have a lot of kids, at least those traveling
2) Poles like dogs. Three different families shipping a dog in a crate.
3) Poles are quiet like Russians. Huge line of 200+ ppl, but still very quiet.
4) Poles have big noses.
5) Polish women are very pretty, up to about 35-40 years. Then they turn into Russian-style matrons.
6) Poles like luxury brands.
7) Poles don't like black people or Jews - picked this up just eavesdropping.
8) Polish grandmas and grandpas are identical to ours, in appearance, in behavior - everything.

Off-Topic / Feed Back on the Moderating - Part 2 [190]

Boomers and Gen Xers destroying each other on PF is a sight to behold.

Following on the heels of the Greatest Generation, you are a pathetic bunch of grown children.

"Me, me, me!!!"

History / Why Was D-Day So Significant for Poland ? [266]


More jokes.

1) Britain was never invaded. The Battle of Britain, was fought entirely in the air, and lasted approx. three months from July to Oct. of 1940. Props to the British Air Force for being able to establish eventual air superiority.

2) The Battle of the Atlantic involved several hundred submarines, and maybe several thousand merchant ships and government owned cargo carriers. The total losses are tallied in the tens of thousands. In other words, approximately a week of Stalingrad fighting.

3) The North African Campaign was an absolute sideshow next to what was happening on the Eastern Front. Once again, total casualties are tallied only in the tens of thousands. Many more were captured, but that is because Hitler and Mussolini had no means of shipping those men back to the Continent. Soldiers who were transferred from North Africa to the Eastern Front, would complain that it was like entering hell (btw the soldiers transferred from France and the Low Countries complained about the same thing).

Bottom line - the scale, brutality, and amount of armament involved - puts the Eastern Front on an entirely different level than any other theater of the war. The Eastern Front of WW2 is the most brutal fighting experienced in the history of our species. Meanwhile, the battles in the West, in Africa, in Asia, could have easily happened in WW1 or in the 19th century in terms of the losses involved.

Britain and France both lost much more men in WW1 than in WW2, though that war is rarely ever discussed when fighting for bragging rights over the dead.

Britain - WW1 losses: 887K military deaths
Britain - WW2 losses: 383K military deaths

France - WW1 losses: 1.4M military deaths
France - WW2 losses: 217k military deaths.

History / Russian Greatness - and its Polish Contributors [77]

@Torq
You dog!

Of course - Serbia - spiritual homeland.

History / Russian Greatness - and its Polish Contributors [77]


I apologize Sensei. You are correct.

You have accurately pointed out the logical fallacy of my constructed argument.

History / Russian Greatness - and its Polish Contributors [77]


Mhmm, not easy.

History / Russian Greatness - and its Polish Contributors [77]


Much of my surrounding also finds my infatuation with Poland suspicious. I'm not Polish by blood (except a very small part), so of course I try to defend myself.

Bottom line - Poland should one day become part of a 4-Nation unity. Poland, Belarus, Ukraine, Russia. One spiritual and philosophical continuum.

We have more in common with each other - and what will make us strong - than what separates us.

History / Russian Greatness - and its Polish Contributors [77]


How do you know that I am NOT learning right now, at this very moment?


Apologies Monsieur - this was addressed at my nemesis.

History / Russian Greatness - and its Polish Contributors [77]

Your negative appraisals are valued at close to zero by me.


Kania, dearest...

Polish military traditions are important, and it is always - in general - important to be respectful towards local customs and traditions.

But I feel you are focusing on the crumbs along the kitchen table, while we have this grand turkey of a feast situated in the middle.

The man, did more than any Western commander to defeat Nazi Germany.

He is a hero of quite literally legendary status in Russia.

He commanded MILLIONS of people.

As a professional military man, that was forced to go to Warsaw to serve in the civilian role of "Minister of Defense" - I'm sure most of the time he was bored out of his mind and was not very efficient.

History / Russian Greatness - and its Polish Contributors [77]


And lose the war and present our undefended anus to Das Deutsches Reich?

Vlasov tried that.

He is now forever the Judas of the Russian people. His name is mixed with sh*t, anytime it is mentioned.

Life was no picnic back then. There was no justice to be found. Men like him, that acted responsibly regardless of this chaos - we owe them a special debt.

Rokossovski is one of the greatest Poles in history for Russians.

History / Russian Greatness - and its Polish Contributors [77]

@Paulina

Did anyone attack Poland since then?

Did Poland kick Hungarian and Czech ass together with us?

Does Poland have a powerful military in the present?

What did Rokossovski do to you that was bad? How did he betray you?

History / Russian Greatness - and its Polish Contributors [77]


He was subjected to extreme hounding and humiliation.

His wife and children were sent into internal exile.

Himself, he was pressured to sign all nature of false confessions which were popular at the time. The price for not signing these confessions, was inhuman beatings and other forms of torture.

He never ratted anyone out. He never confessed. Then, when the time came, and the country came calling - he answered the call.

This is a patriot of Russia.

Russia brutalized him and spat in his face, trampled over everything he held dear, and yet he went out there and laid his soul down for the defense.

This makes Rokossovski more Russian than most Russians.

History / Russian Greatness - and its Polish Contributors [77]


Yeah "hahahaha".

Find in 1949 in Poland a Pole that had experience of commanding a front consisting of multiple millions of people.

Find a Pole that was treated as an equal by Montgomery and McArthur.

Find a Pole that had the same level of connections in Moscow.