Life / Why are Poles always so miserable? Why do they never smile? [512]

Spaniards, Southern French, Greeks, and Italians give the surface impression of being more happy-go-lucky, more prone to break out into a smile or a spontaneous show of joy than perhaps one's initiial glance at Swedes, Dutchmen, the English, Germans and Poles.

Then again, it's all a matter of American expectations as well as the historical development of countries such as Poland, Germany etc.

Life / Why are Poles always so miserable? Why do they never smile? [512]

It isn't! All I'm saying is that I can remember quite well Polish supers in New York apt. buildings as a teenager, and most were middle-aged men with bad attitudes and sour pusses because they were frequently taking their orders from minority tenants (the late 70's remember and affirmative action for women, blacks, Hispanics etc.) who had far less education than they, but were literally forced to work at some job, and being by luck somewhat dextrous as well as tough looking, were able to bribe their way into a job they could hold onto for life without working too hard. Meager salary at the time compared with now, but plenty of sick days and a modicum of job security.

Once, our Polish super had a wee bit too much to drink on New Year's Eve and made a slur in front of our African-American neighbor. She complained blue murder, but the super barely got a slap on the wrist.

A double-edged sword now, isn't it?

Life / Why are Poles always so miserable? Why do they never smile? [512]

Ahem, someone looks for work as either an engineer, teacher, doctor or lawyer, yet is told nearly every step of the way, "THERE'S A GLUT IN YOUR FIELD, DUDE!! LOOK ELSEWHERE AND DEAL WITH IT!", duh- I think that's sort of a no-brainer that it may be time to pull up stakes and GO!!! Yeah, TheOther, that's what I call being forced to leave:-)

As to the rest of your statement in the second paragraph of your post, I'd have to agree 100%, having lived for a spell in Austria, Germany, and even more briefly, in The Netherlands. Poles too generally have little to any pretense about their immediate wishes, one reason perhaps why they can often come across to us as appearing somewhat "rough around the edges". Like the Israelis in fact, Polish people in their body language often seem to be saying,"If something's clearly wrong, why waste valuable time being polite about it? Simply eliminate the problem and set things right, that's all. Offend the other person's thin skin??

Too f*****k bad!!"

Not a difficult to understand position. It doesn't though take into account foreign diets which may or may not lead to diabetes etc., conditions which make many middle-aged American women, for instance, exceptionally thin-skinned. Perhaps in Poland, the latter is far less of an issue, add to that, in such a relatively homogeneous country, everyone probably has similar problems and so knows how to deal with them.

Life / Why are Poles always so miserable? Why do they never smile? [512]

Poles here are slightly different from Poles at home. If you were a trained professional in your country and were forced to work way beneath your level every day of your life in America, while inferior people around were making much more for doing much less, you'd be grumpy too!

Life / Why are Poles always so miserable? Why do they never smile? [512]

I as well, TheOther. Heck, I lived there long enough. If I couldn't have stood the heat, I would've gotten out of the Continental kitchen a LONG time ago!!

Give me honest to gosh German or Polish grumpy face any day of the week compared with the passively false smile of the US.

At least in those countries, ya nearly always know where ya stand:-)

Life / Why are Poles always so miserable? Why do they never smile? [512]

Seems quite similar to my initial contact with Germans, both East and West! A smile upon initial eye contact was as rare as the Star of India and considered a gift rather than merely an expected reaction as is true here in the States. When I received one, I felt myself lucky that day:-)

Travel / Why do you visit Poland? [223]

One's never to old to see new things, merely too poor or to lazy:-) I guess I fall into the second categoryLOL

History / Poland and Britain started WW2 [307]

Hitler, as the Nazis on the whole, possibly even German society as unmasked by the meteoric rise of the entire regime, were neither Christian nor even Judeo-Christian, but PAGAN to the bone, and apparently never Christianized! Hitler himself often mocked Christianity as having too much of a Jewish conscience:-) He considered the Germanic "race" barbarians, proud of being barbarians!

Genealogy / Why are some Polish people dark complected, and others very light [511]

Misspelled the name. Thanks!

Genealogy / Why are some Polish people dark complected, and others very light [511]

The only extant languages to which is even distantly related are Khansky (??) and Mansi, spoken in Eastern Siberia:-)

Genealogy / Why are some Polish people dark complected, and others very light [511]

Hungarians, compared with Romanians I've encountered, (in this way similar to Poles) often have blue eyes but dark hair, brown usually, and of medium to stocky build, depending on where in the country they're from. There's plenty of Roma influence in Romania which might account for the swarthiness of many Romanians as well:-)

@Maf, as to the respective languages, Romanian remains essentially a Romance tongue dating back to Caesar's time, yet with a heavy Slavic overlay as evidenced by her word stock:-) Hungarian is distantly Uralic or Fenno-Ugric with substantial influence from here Germanic and Slavic neighbors. The other language "isolate", Albanian, is Illyrian with Balkan vocabulary intermingled with non-extant ancient Indo-European root words in addition to even some Turkish admixture.

Life / Why are Poles always so miserable? Why do they never smile? [512]

True.

Life / Why are Poles always so miserable? Why do they never smile? [512]

Poles are generally focused and serious when in the presence of strangers aka foreigners of unknown quantity or intention. In this way, they're not too unlike many Northern Europeans, such as many North Germans and the Swedes Among their own in a casual setting and the right amount of alcohol, they smile and laugh plenty, just like anybody else, believe meLOL

Genealogy / Why are some Polish people dark complected, and others very light [511]

Romanians tend to be darker complected than certainly Poles, Russians, Czechs or most other Eastern Slavs, typically with pencil-thin eyebrows, acquiline features and medium stature. I have known Romanians who are tallish, blond, and light-eyed, but am wondering whether or not this might not be the exception:-)

History / Can anyone from Poland tell me about Auschwitz and The Ghetto? [582]

Survival often breeds deviant behavior which is why it's the strongest of all human emotions.

History / Can anyone from Poland tell me about Auschwitz and The Ghetto? [582]

You mean the kapos who were forced at pain of death and torture to shove the corpses of their fellow Jews into ovens?? Not exactly a correct analogy, as the Jews were not taught in their yeshivot to HATE all goyim, what's more to destroy them!

Don't let's please measure those random, rogue militant anti-Palestinians by the standards of a Meir Kahan! Not ALL Germans supported Hitler either, not EVERY Polish Catholic is an anti-Semite, and so forth.

@kaprys,

A bit facile your argument that because Poland rejected Gross, he rejected Poland! If your parents were gassed by some nameless enemy, I somehow don't think you'd be running back to your homeland shouting, "I'M BACK!! TORTURE ME SOME MORE!!, unless you're some sort of sado-masochist:-)

History / Can anyone from Poland tell me about Auschwitz and The Ghetto? [582]

Correct, kaprys! Although only half-Jewish (technically NON-Jewish because only his father was of the faith), Gross nonetheless identifies with his Jewish heritage:-)

Interesting, isn't it.

History / Can anyone from Poland tell me about Auschwitz and The Ghetto? [582]

Facts are facts! Gross wasn't making stuff up or he wouldn't have gotten to Princeton. Some people actually get to where they are on their merits, not always through affirmative action:-)

History / Can anyone from Poland tell me about Auschwitz and The Ghetto? [582]

I mistyped auto-da-fe, sorry!

@gumishu,

Fact is, Pontius Pilate ordered Jesus to be crucified. Judas Iskariot, while Jewish as was Jesus, might have not voluntarily turned in his Master.
For Pilate though, there was no such ready excuse as Jesus had already long been a thorn in the side of the Romans, stirring up "trouble" by convincing the locals that Pilate was bad:-)

History / Can anyone from Poland tell me about Auschwitz and The Ghetto? [582]

For the umpteenth time, people, I'm NOT "blaming" Poland or the Poles for antisemitism!

You're either not understanding my English (more than likely) or you're one recalcitrant little bugger who doesn't want to understand the truth.

Arch Catholic societies are traditionally more prone to intense anti-semitism than Protestant countries!! Catholic liturgy takes the Scripture for granted that it was the Jews who killed Jesus, when everybody with a brain knows it was the Romans:-) Compare Spain (the Intefada), France, Poland, or Austria with Scandinavia, Holland or England. Apart from the Lincolnshire Massacres during the Middle Ages, after nearly three centuries, it was Cromwell who welcomed the Jews back to England.

No country's perfect. Then again, no country had Auschwitz or Treblinka except one which was occupied by the Germans. In Nazi Germany, Munich and the Catholic south was far more supportive of Hitler than Cologne (oddly enough a Catholic stronghold as well, yet a more "liberal" Catholic city, look at Adenauer), Hamburg or Berlin (which Hitler himself even publically defamed as "The Jewish Republic").

History's full of peculiar paradoxes. First though, one has to read the history. When are you going to start?

History / Can anyone from Poland tell me about Auschwitz and The Ghetto? [582]

Still can't handle the truth, can ya!

@kaprys,

As one also familiar with Polish, it is well known that a large number (though perhaps not the majority) of Polish surnames DO end in "ski", "owski" as well as "icz":-)

There are, however, certain family names which I for instance would not associate with a "Jewish-sounding" one, e.g. "Duda", "Lula", "Pajdo", "Blaszczuk",
"Dolnik" etc...

Your point is fair enough, but in fact, Jews with easily identifiable last names such as "Horowitz", "Goldberg", "Cohen" and so forth will obviously stand out in Poland. Physical appearance though, I freely admit, is dangerous to generalize, therefore less clear to identify in a crowd (except when clothed in certain garb such as a kipa, shreimel or long black frock coat during the summer months, for instance).

Many Polish Jews are often so intermarried, and have been for centuries, I even remember seeing a few who had what I might dub typically "Polish" features such as lighish eyes, squarish jaw, sharp features and a tendency toward tallness.

History / Can anyone from Poland tell me about Auschwitz and The Ghetto? [582]

You are correct regarding the Browning book, Maf! I read it after the Goldhagen, and while my analogy might have been misleading, my point was that collusion was rampant throughout the War, not only on the Polish side:-)

Furthermore, it is known by any number of Polish Jews in my circle of acquaintances, from Holocaust Survivor groups, for instance, that in Poland, anti-Semitism has of course long since been officially "de-fanged", and yet, it lurks beneath the surface.

A pianist colleague of mine from Warsaw, changed his name from "Markowicz" to "Marekowski" in order to sound more "Polish". He also told me that many Jews, openly Jewish, living in Warsaw, and NOT small villages, typically had their car tires slashed for no apparent reason.

Isolated as these incidents may be, as with domestic violence until recently, a large number more are, I'm sure, not reported for fear of reprisals!

As a nation, Poland has certainly done her share to make amends for the past, nearly as much as Germany, much more than Switzerland or Austria. However, ironically, national surveys done continue to reveal an underlying hostility towards the presence of Jews in their country.

Sad, but so.

Sources again??? Look 'em up on line.

History / Can anyone from Poland tell me about Auschwitz and The Ghetto? [582]

A long post about nothing because obviously you didn't understand what I was driving at. Will post a Polish explanation in a day or so:-)

History / Can anyone from Poland tell me about Auschwitz and The Ghetto? [582]

Folks, culpability in time bears the fullness of responsibility, if not directly, then indirectly. Sources for my posts? Lack of knowledge about WWII?
I ask the naysayers among us to read the history for themselves. Anybody can label someone a "counter revisionist" for attacking revisionist claims, such as those of Messrs. Irving, Nolte or Hillgruber, among others.

Ever read Goldhagen's controversial best seller "Hitler's Willing Executioners", or perhaps even more trenchant because written by a non-Jewish historian, "Ordinary Men" by Christopher Browning?? The contents may surprise most of you, shock some of you, and I hope, enlighten the rest of you:-)

I expect to receive the usual denial of the truth. Indeed, the truth can on occasion taste like a mouthful of worms, and yet, in this era of "fake news", it's salubrious for sure to bask in the healing waters of veracity:-)

Happy Reading!

History / Can anyone from Poland tell me about Auschwitz and The Ghetto? [582]

Never once did I state on this, or for that matter, on any forum, that "the Poles built the camps", point blank!! This alone would be an out-and-out lie, worthy even of a libel suit. No argument there, not now, not ever. Merely wish to set the record straight:-)

However, as the old saying goes, "It takes two to tango." The measures imposed on the Danes by Plenipotentiary Werner Best for aiding Jews, giving succor to resistance fighters and the like, were as harsh as any imposed on the Poles.

The difference is merely that, Poland's huge resistance movement aside for a minute, the invading Nazis once again were banking on the local cooperation of the peasants, farmers and small-townsfolk throughout the countryside, not only of Poland, more so even, of Latvia and Lithuania (traditionally also seats of Jewish learning for centuries), for help in ridding Europe of her Jews.

These are facts. If you don't believe me, read Lucy Davidowicz, Raul Hilberg, and scholars far more learned than any of us here.

@Bieganski,

Your English could also be called "Googlish", but never once did I have to consult a phrasebook trapsing around Sczcecin! I waited till I returned to the hotel:-)

@kaprys,

I make no bones about the fact that Jews in Communist Europe numbered among the worst. With the blatant exception of course of Ceauscescu, Hungary's Rakosi Matyas was a vicious, unrepenetant swine who all but turned his back on his own people, changed his name, and adopted the ideology which would help him feather his nest. Not a Jew I'd be proud of!!

History / Can anyone from Poland tell me about Auschwitz and The Ghetto? [582]

The fire-bombing of Dresden was no piker either, I'll have you know:-)

History / Can anyone from Poland tell me about Auschwitz and The Ghetto? [582]

Indeed, and fecking lucky to have 'em too, I should say:-)

History / Can anyone from Poland tell me about Auschwitz and The Ghetto? [582]

Often one will state or quote, only later to have discovered this or that to be slightly less than accurate:-) Nothing I've posted here has been any more than (on occasion) a tad off, yet certainly within the limits of historical exactitude. In the scheme of things, my posts are well-informed, admittedly imperfect from time to time.

In college, our European history prof also confessed to having placed the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising as 1941, immediately making mention of said error by the start of our next class. In 1981, we didn't have the "benefit" of instant Google.

I endeavor always to do the same.

History / Can anyone from Poland tell me about Auschwitz and The Ghetto? [582]

My statements are neither of the above! One rarely has all the prerequisite info at one's fingertips. Furthermore, I used to teach history. Does that surprise you? It shouldn't.

Recently, a Polish gentleman with an accent one could cut with a sierp(LOL), claimed he was an English teacher...not in Poland, but in (of all places) Boston, Mass.

In America, anything's possible:-)

History / Can anyone from Poland tell me about Auschwitz and The Ghetto? [582]

Oh, ok! Thanks for that.