Barney
14 May 2013
Life / Bribery and corruption 'fact of life' in Poland? [152]
The "revolving door" is a problem in all market economies
The "revolving door" is a problem in all market economies
Barney
14 May 2013
Life / Bribery and corruption 'fact of life' in Poland? [152]
There is a tiny problem with the UK ministerial code of conduct it seems to allow money laundering for Drug cartels, terrorists and states like Iran.
So, let's see the Commission tighten up the rules, perhaps taking inspiration from the UK's ministerial code of conduct,
There is a tiny problem with the UK ministerial code of conduct it seems to allow money laundering for Drug cartels, terrorists and states like Iran.
Barney
13 May 2013
Life / Bribery and corruption 'fact of life' in Poland? [152]
Very little, older EU countries have difficulty preventing corruption some governments play an active role in hiding corruption and preventing investigations into it, the best you can hope for is that it becomes hidden from public view.
On a side note, I wouldn't place too much faith in Ernst and Young's auditing abilities especially when it comes to reputable business practices. This company were not too exhaustive when auditing Banks.
Very little, older EU countries have difficulty preventing corruption some governments play an active role in hiding corruption and preventing investigations into it, the best you can hope for is that it becomes hidden from public view.
On a side note, I wouldn't place too much faith in Ernst and Young's auditing abilities especially when it comes to reputable business practices. This company were not too exhaustive when auditing Banks.
Barney
9 Apr 2013
Law / The right to own guns: would you support such legislation in Poland? [2237]
Zimmy your entire post is an emotional reaction. The example you provide is one of many stories that are magnified by those pushing their own particular political viewpoint ie an emotional response. In Britain there are a lot of stories about the EU banning bananas with a curve or classifying carrots as a fruit because the publications don't like the EU, the same is true of your conspiracy site.
Its not for me to give specifics here, the gun lobby always suggest fighting tyranny as a reason to flood the community with weapons (80-90 weapons per 100 residents in the US), you said you would fight tyranny and I simply asked how would you do that. Since I asked that question you have avoided answering.
Reducing the number of guns in the community reduces the chances of someone being shot. It's not difficult to understand.
These weapons are not being smuggled into the US it's a home grown problem that gun owners refuse to acknowledge. Their addiction to weapons directly contributes to arming these criminals. Another aspect often overlooked is the potential for the good gun owner to turn bad but that is not what you were asking.
The situation in the US is so screwed up that any measures designed to restrict sales both (private and commercial) and keep guns in cabinets etc will reduce the total numbers being pumped into the community. This will inevitably reduce the amount available on the black market.
Can you provide stats for your mass shootings claim then we can discuss it. If true is cherry picking favourable stats the way forward?
This is the kind of hysteria that the gun control advocates promulgate. It's all based on emotion
Zimmy your entire post is an emotional reaction. The example you provide is one of many stories that are magnified by those pushing their own particular political viewpoint ie an emotional response. In Britain there are a lot of stories about the EU banning bananas with a curve or classifying carrots as a fruit because the publications don't like the EU, the same is true of your conspiracy site.
Tell me what the specific threat is as any resistance to it will be different depending on the circumstances
Its not for me to give specifics here, the gun lobby always suggest fighting tyranny as a reason to flood the community with weapons (80-90 weapons per 100 residents in the US), you said you would fight tyranny and I simply asked how would you do that. Since I asked that question you have avoided answering.
Reducing the number of guns in the community reduces the chances of someone being shot. It's not difficult to understand.
Again, how will gun legislation remove illegal guns from thugs?
These weapons are not being smuggled into the US it's a home grown problem that gun owners refuse to acknowledge. Their addiction to weapons directly contributes to arming these criminals. Another aspect often overlooked is the potential for the good gun owner to turn bad but that is not what you were asking.
The situation in the US is so screwed up that any measures designed to restrict sales both (private and commercial) and keep guns in cabinets etc will reduce the total numbers being pumped into the community. This will inevitably reduce the amount available on the black market.
Can you provide stats for your mass shootings claim then we can discuss it. If true is cherry picking favourable stats the way forward?
Barney
4 Apr 2013
Law / The right to own guns: would you support such legislation in Poland? [2237]
Not true Zimmy As I said above the murder rate (all murders) in almost all countries in Europe is much lower than the murder rate in the US. Murders by gun are much lower. Those stats make your quote
even more ridiculous I pointed that out in my last post which you missed.
Pumping guns into the community, having targets drawn on maps and such only succeeds in upping the ante, people expect everyone to be armed. For every story about some gun nut shooting a burglar I can find a story of someone being shot for ringing a door bell. The only hypocrisy is the desperate attempt of the gun crowd to justify forcing their hobby and associated carnage on the rest of society. Europe doesn't want that, Europeans don't need a gun to feel safe.
Zimmy you expect me to give specific answers to solve the gun problems the US has but refused to answer how you would fight tyranny even denying that the question was asked
It's not my job to solve your problems I do however support attempts to reduce mass shootings. The overwhelming majority of such shootings are carried out using legal weapons by the gun nut crowd which makes your initial point redundant. It's the same as saying that no law is needed because some people will ignore it
More guns mean more gun deaths.
When Europeans kill others using methods like knives, poison or bats, etc. you don't seem to count them as murders
Not true Zimmy As I said above the murder rate (all murders) in almost all countries in Europe is much lower than the murder rate in the US. Murders by gun are much lower. Those stats make your quote
The important thing to keep in mind is not the rate of deaths by gun - a statistic that anti-gun advocates are quick to recite - but the overall murder rate,"
even more ridiculous I pointed that out in my last post which you missed.
Pumping guns into the community, having targets drawn on maps and such only succeeds in upping the ante, people expect everyone to be armed. For every story about some gun nut shooting a burglar I can find a story of someone being shot for ringing a door bell. The only hypocrisy is the desperate attempt of the gun crowd to justify forcing their hobby and associated carnage on the rest of society. Europe doesn't want that, Europeans don't need a gun to feel safe.
Zimmy you expect me to give specific answers to solve the gun problems the US has but refused to answer how you would fight tyranny even denying that the question was asked
It's not my job to solve your problems I do however support attempts to reduce mass shootings. The overwhelming majority of such shootings are carried out using legal weapons by the gun nut crowd which makes your initial point redundant. It's the same as saying that no law is needed because some people will ignore it
More guns mean more gun deaths.
Barney
3 Apr 2013
Law / The right to own guns: would you support such legislation in Poland? [2237]
Indeed I did and I stand by that, there are no bills or proposed bills before congress that talk about disarming Americans. Many people have opinions but there are no plans to ban guns to suggest so is more than a distortion of reality its dishonest no matter how much you would like them to do so. There is no slippery slope that's just hysteria.
The murder rate in Europe is much lower than the US, Gun deaths are much lower in Europe. The countries that you mentioned have very strict gun laws resulting in fewer gun deaths. European countries with liberal gun laws have more gun deaths just like the US.
Do I really have to?
Prosecutions are for transgressions ie breaking the law
As private individuals they don't, perhaps you would like their business dealings opened to public inspection
Its not, all it does is pump guns into the community upping the ante
The laws being discussed in the US are targeted at mass shootings and attempting to make them less likely. There are almost no other gun laws of any note.
That's just nonsense from someone in favour of private bureaucrat yet enjoys the benefits of government protection.
You said, "No one is talking about disarming Americans"
Indeed I did and I stand by that, there are no bills or proposed bills before congress that talk about disarming Americans. Many people have opinions but there are no plans to ban guns to suggest so is more than a distortion of reality its dishonest no matter how much you would like them to do so. There is no slippery slope that's just hysteria.
"The important thing to keep in mind is not the rate of deaths by gun - a statistic that anti-gun advocates are quick to recite - but the overall murder rate,"
The murder rate in Europe is much lower than the US, Gun deaths are much lower in Europe. The countries that you mentioned have very strict gun laws resulting in fewer gun deaths. European countries with liberal gun laws have more gun deaths just like the US.
Yet, you are unable to disassemble them
Do I really have to?
As to guns, we should b e prosecuted for our transgressions, not for what we own.
Prosecutions are for transgressions ie breaking the law
Politicians exempt themselves from gun bans. Do we deserve such an elite citizenship?
As private individuals they don't, perhaps you would like their business dealings opened to public inspection
Possessing a weapon to protect your family is prudent. Politicians and journalists and liberals call you a "gun nut".
Its not, all it does is pump guns into the community upping the ante
Gun control laws have no effect on criminals because they ignore them. Gun control advocates ignore this fundamental fact.
The laws being discussed in the US are targeted at mass shootings and attempting to make them less likely. There are almost no other gun laws of any note.
The concept of gun control is based on the assumptions that underlie all government programs - that more big government means more control over their citizens.
That's just nonsense from someone in favour of private bureaucrat yet enjoys the benefits of government protection.
Barney
3 Apr 2013
Law / The right to own guns: would you support such legislation in Poland? [2237]
Zimmy you found someone with an opinion you disagree with, someone who thinks its better to ban all guns. I'm sure there are a few other senators who agree with her just as there are several pro gun nut senators, that's how democracy works. The reality is that guns are not going to be outlawed in the US, no one is proposing to ban guns despite the hysterical formulaic claims.
That's a sad little whine full of nonsense, any semi sentient being can see the lies and distortion for what they are.
The reality is that the death rate due to guns in Europe is lower than the death rate in the US. That's the fact that you cannot ignore Everyone in Europe knows this and no one except a few nuts want to adopt the crazy system they have in the US.
I'll gladly debate your false claims (illustrated above) over health care in the appropriate thread.
Zimmy you found someone with an opinion you disagree with, someone who thinks its better to ban all guns. I'm sure there are a few other senators who agree with her just as there are several pro gun nut senators, that's how democracy works. The reality is that guns are not going to be outlawed in the US, no one is proposing to ban guns despite the hysterical formulaic claims.
* As to guns, we should b e prosecuted for our transgressions, not for what we own.
That's a sad little whine full of nonsense, any semi sentient being can see the lies and distortion for what they are.
The reality is that the death rate due to guns in Europe is lower than the death rate in the US. That's the fact that you cannot ignore Everyone in Europe knows this and no one except a few nuts want to adopt the crazy system they have in the US.
I'll gladly debate your false claims (illustrated above) over health care in the appropriate thread.
Barney
3 Apr 2013
Law / The right to own guns: would you support such legislation in Poland? [2237]
That is a lie, the legislation states
If rich people want to buy health insurance they can as I pointed out above private health care has not been abolished.
No one is talking about disarming Americans, some sensible measures to try and reduce the carnage are being proposed. The usual suspects are opposed to reducing the gun death rate to at least Polish levels.
It's a Cadillac package unavailable to the people who had Obamacare thrust on them.
That is a lie, the legislation states
H.R. 3590: D) MEMBERS OF CONGRESS IN THE EXCHANGE.— (i) REQUIREMENT.—Notwithstanding any other provision of law, after the effective date of this subtitle, the only health plans that the Federal Government may make available to Members of Congress and congressional staff with respect to their service as a Member of Congress or congressional staff shall be health plans that are— (I) created under this Act (or an amendment made by this Act); or (II) offered through an Exchange established under this Act (or an amendment made by this Act).
If rich people want to buy health insurance they can as I pointed out above private health care has not been abolished.
No one is talking about disarming Americans, some sensible measures to try and reduce the carnage are being proposed. The usual suspects are opposed to reducing the gun death rate to at least Polish levels.
Barney
3 Apr 2013
Law / The right to own guns: would you support such legislation in Poland? [2237]
That is a lie
The reality is that those people already have a public funded health care package. Obama has not outlawed private health insurance, rich people and corporations can continue to buy health care.
Those against a universal health care system are the hypocrites, health care for all provided they are rich....
Of course the same is true for Obamacare. Washington government bureaucrats and politicians force it on everyone but they exclude themselves from it and prefer to keep their premium deluxe health care.
That is a lie
The reality is that those people already have a public funded health care package. Obama has not outlawed private health insurance, rich people and corporations can continue to buy health care.
Those against a universal health care system are the hypocrites, health care for all provided they are rich....
Barney
28 Mar 2013
Law / The right to own guns: would you support such legislation in Poland? [2237]
It is true that the history of gun control laws is racist the first such laws were passed 1n 1831 after a slave revolt and this continues till today. It was easy to get racist laws passed in the US as there is a fear of the Black and the foreign born.
Now for a modern eg
Everyone else sees this as American on American gun murders.
I just wish the US could get rid of the black/white thing or the creeping anti Latino thing, more developed countries see this subject as a public safety issue rather than a race issue
The facts are that more guns equals more gun deaths. Pump a place full of guns and you get more mass shootings, accidental shootings and every other type of shooting.
Placing restrictions for all is the best way to go about reducing the appalling shooting record the US has.
You are probably unaware that the first gun control laws were enacted in the ante-bellum south in the U.S. in order to keep Blacks in their servile status.
It is true that the history of gun control laws is racist the first such laws were passed 1n 1831 after a slave revolt and this continues till today. It was easy to get racist laws passed in the US as there is a fear of the Black and the foreign born.
Now for a modern eg
I've previously given you the facts about minority-on-minority gun murders
Everyone else sees this as American on American gun murders.
I just wish the US could get rid of the black/white thing or the creeping anti Latino thing, more developed countries see this subject as a public safety issue rather than a race issue
The facts are that more guns equals more gun deaths. Pump a place full of guns and you get more mass shootings, accidental shootings and every other type of shooting.
Placing restrictions for all is the best way to go about reducing the appalling shooting record the US has.
Barney
27 Mar 2013
Law / The right to own guns: would you support such legislation in Poland? [2237]
They are responses to Zimmy quoting three people. Each was a slave owner, they rebelled and were employed by governments. Everything I said is factual and common knowledge for the average person. I can provide fully referenced articles for each fact you disagree with.
There in nothing inflammatory in anything I said. Do you not see the hypocrisy? When talking about personal freedom, the right to self defence and human rights in general that the last people you should be quoting are slave owners. Remember it wasn't me who introduced them into the debate.
Yet again your reading comprehension has failed you, I have not made a blanket statement about the US just 3 individuals one of whom (Paine) supported the French terror. You may describe Poland anyway you like so long as its factual, are you sure you would like to make a sweeping statement about Polish people?
It is NOT FACTUAL and blanket statements. It is inflammatory and meant to derail thread.
It is over borderline insulting to any patriotic US citizen regardless of leaning to be repeated so many time WITH NO REFERENCE DATA.
It is over borderline insulting to any patriotic US citizen regardless of leaning to be repeated so many time WITH NO REFERENCE DATA.
They are responses to Zimmy quoting three people. Each was a slave owner, they rebelled and were employed by governments. Everything I said is factual and common knowledge for the average person. I can provide fully referenced articles for each fact you disagree with.
There in nothing inflammatory in anything I said. Do you not see the hypocrisy? When talking about personal freedom, the right to self defence and human rights in general that the last people you should be quoting are slave owners. Remember it wasn't me who introduced them into the debate.
Yet again your reading comprehension has failed you, I have not made a blanket statement about the US just 3 individuals one of whom (Paine) supported the French terror. You may describe Poland anyway you like so long as its factual, are you sure you would like to make a sweeping statement about Polish people?
Barney
27 Mar 2013
Law / The right to own guns: would you support such legislation in Poland? [2237]
Zim a youtube video?
Youtube, Ads for books and some slave owner quotes (hypocritically) about freedom.
Please tell me that your standard of debate is higher than that.
Evidently you didn't bother to watch the video above which rationally explains that to you.
Zim a youtube video?
Youtube, Ads for books and some slave owner quotes (hypocritically) about freedom.
Please tell me that your standard of debate is higher than that.
Barney
27 Mar 2013
Law / The right to own guns: would you support such legislation in Poland? [2237]
I have not made any claim that requires supporting evidence.
I asked a few questions and pointed to the disparity in gun deaths between the US and Europe. You refuse to answer simple questions preferring instead to beat the same old drum with your one second hand argument.
You have a general inability to debate a point or understand the purpose and use of supporting evidence.
Ironic for you to say that since you don't provide any evidence in your critiques.
I have not made any claim that requires supporting evidence.
I asked a few questions and pointed to the disparity in gun deaths between the US and Europe. You refuse to answer simple questions preferring instead to beat the same old drum with your one second hand argument.
You have a general inability to debate a point or understand the purpose and use of supporting evidence.
Barney
27 Mar 2013
Law / The right to own guns: would you support such legislation in Poland? [2237]
This is how supporting links work.......
You make a statement then you provide supporting evidence for that statement, posting a random ad does neither of those things.
If you would like to copy his argument do so then we can discuss.
It's as I said above Zim you just copy /paste random nonsense.
I was hoping you'd do some research on John Lott's book
This is how supporting links work.......
You make a statement then you provide supporting evidence for that statement, posting a random ad does neither of those things.
If you would like to copy his argument do so then we can discuss.
It's as I said above Zim you just copy /paste random nonsense.
Barney
26 Mar 2013
Law / The right to own guns: would you support such legislation in Poland? [2237]
To question the bare faced cheek it takes to quote slave owning government apparatchiks who wrote about freedom and the dangers of government is not dishonest, highlighting hypocrisy is not deceitful.
Think about it for a moment....slave owners writing about freedom, writing about all men created equal.
Are you going to quote from Herod's radical child care regime?
It's logical to form an argument that holds water not chant the mantra of hollow threats in some paranoid world of crap conspiracy theories.
Well isn't that a surprise.......
From your link
It would be great if you copy/pasted some of this persons arguments zim then there would be something to debate. You have just posted an ad for a book, a totally random link, less useful than a link to an online pizza shop.
You haven't really got the hang of supporting evidence yet zim
Now, now, they were more than just "slave owners" weren't they? Besides, not all of them owned slaves. To ignore what they accomplished is deceitful and dishonest.
To question the bare faced cheek it takes to quote slave owning government apparatchiks who wrote about freedom and the dangers of government is not dishonest, highlighting hypocrisy is not deceitful.
Think about it for a moment....slave owners writing about freedom, writing about all men created equal.
Are you going to quote from Herod's radical child care regime?
It's logical to form an argument that holds water not chant the mantra of hollow threats in some paranoid world of crap conspiracy theories.
What this had to do with what I wrote?
Well isn't that a surprise.......
I leave you with this..................John Lott
From your link
In his bestselling classic, More Guns, Less Crime, John R. Lott, Jr., proved that guns make us safer. Now, in his stunning new book, The Bias against Guns, Lott shows how liberals bury pro-gun facts out of sheer bias against the truth.
With irrefutable evidence, Lott shoots gun critics down and gives you the information you need to win arguments with those who want to ban guns.
With irrefutable evidence, Lott shoots gun critics down and gives you the information you need to win arguments with those who want to ban guns.
It would be great if you copy/pasted some of this persons arguments zim then there would be something to debate. You have just posted an ad for a book, a totally random link, less useful than a link to an online pizza shop.
You haven't really got the hang of supporting evidence yet zim
Barney
26 Mar 2013
Law / The right to own guns: would you support such legislation in Poland? [2237]
You have indeed, the problem is that you have no argument to defend your position. Posting a bunch of quotes from the slave owners about tyranny does not make an argument. You have to form a reasoned logical position, the nonsense about fighting a tyrannical government is a case in point. It's an empty slogan and hollow threat for a situation that will not arise. There is no logical stance possible for holding that point of view except to impress equally deluded folk.
Its not that I dislike references, I dislike random quotes peppering a post without any coherent narrative. If you make a point its good to have some sort of evidence to support that point for example peer reviewed journals. A link to a blog site is not supporting evidence but the opinion of some one else.
I've made my pro gun positions very clear
You have indeed, the problem is that you have no argument to defend your position. Posting a bunch of quotes from the slave owners about tyranny does not make an argument. You have to form a reasoned logical position, the nonsense about fighting a tyrannical government is a case in point. It's an empty slogan and hollow threat for a situation that will not arise. There is no logical stance possible for holding that point of view except to impress equally deluded folk.
Barney won't read the following link because he abhors references
Its not that I dislike references, I dislike random quotes peppering a post without any coherent narrative. If you make a point its good to have some sort of evidence to support that point for example peer reviewed journals. A link to a blog site is not supporting evidence but the opinion of some one else.
Barney
26 Mar 2013
Law / The right to own guns: would you support such legislation in Poland? [2237]
Zim your favourite topic is you which is not surprising given your inability to debate any point.
On this thread you have made sweeping Yoda like announcements, refused to answer questions pretending they were not asked, posted a few pointless quotes by some slave owners and start personal attacks.
That is pretty much standard practice for your good self, perhaps you will soon stumble across an exotic site that tells you how to think, something like the misogynist sites, the climate change denial sites and the birther sites the list of nonsense that you have spewed here is seemingly endless......
Well there must be something seriously screwed up about the US if your permanent self medicating forces you to arm yourselves. Or is it that Europe has a similar drug problem but fewer guns and is safer as a result?
Zim your favourite topic is you which is not surprising given your inability to debate any point.
On this thread you have made sweeping Yoda like announcements, refused to answer questions pretending they were not asked, posted a few pointless quotes by some slave owners and start personal attacks.
That is pretty much standard practice for your good self, perhaps you will soon stumble across an exotic site that tells you how to think, something like the misogynist sites, the climate change denial sites and the birther sites the list of nonsense that you have spewed here is seemingly endless......
We have Russian Mafia here.............................../////......................... .......We have had Italian mafia strong here since before the prohibition. opium trade has been replaced long ago by meth.
Well there must be something seriously screwed up about the US if your permanent self medicating forces you to arm yourselves. Or is it that Europe has a similar drug problem but fewer guns and is safer as a result?
Barney
25 Mar 2013
Law / The right to own guns: would you support such legislation in Poland? [2237]
Boasting Zimmy, boasting that you have bettered me or others in debate. You must be the only self proclaimed alpha male that needs to boast. Zim you have never bettered any one on this site in debate as you don't have an original idea but you can cut and paste.
You inhabit a world of crank sites often posting links to them here. One of the sites you linked to claimed that Canada was governed by an Acorn worshiping cult (I thought it was the pineapple crowd but they are bat **** crazy not like the acorn people) when I challenged you on this you claimed that there was good info on those sites.
Yes Europeans are safe compared to those in the US.
When the psychos are no longer reported as quiet unassuming people who would never hurt a fly followed by the phrase who would have guessed they were capable of that.....perhaps I'll change my mind.
Zim the long and short is that your crazy world view has been rejected by Europe it has been rejected by the majority of the people in the US and every other place it has been tested.
Europe is not going to adopt a crazy cowboy myth of gunslingers and lone heroes.
Can you quote where I said that I was "great"?
Boasting Zimmy, boasting that you have bettered me or others in debate. You must be the only self proclaimed alpha male that needs to boast. Zim you have never bettered any one on this site in debate as you don't have an original idea but you can cut and paste.
You inhabit a world of crank sites often posting links to them here. One of the sites you linked to claimed that Canada was governed by an Acorn worshiping cult (I thought it was the pineapple crowd but they are bat **** crazy not like the acorn people) when I challenged you on this you claimed that there was good info on those sites.
Yes Europeans are safe compared to those in the US.
As a responsible gun owner
When the psychos are no longer reported as quiet unassuming people who would never hurt a fly followed by the phrase who would have guessed they were capable of that.....perhaps I'll change my mind.
Zim the long and short is that your crazy world view has been rejected by Europe it has been rejected by the majority of the people in the US and every other place it has been tested.
Europe is not going to adopt a crazy cowboy myth of gunslingers and lone heroes.
Barney
25 Mar 2013
Law / The right to own guns: would you support such legislation in Poland? [2237]
There is no call for widespread gun ownership and associated slaughter in Europe.
The laws we have are just fine that's why Europeans are safe. If the laws are to be relaxed to allow people access to guns who don't really need them major restrictions will still be in place to ensure public safety.
There is no cowboy myth in Europe guiding social and political policy but primarily used to sell stuff....
Source. Its a good read
guardian/books/2013/mar/20/myth-of-the-cowboy?INTCMP=SRCH
People on this forum who are "in Europe" both as citizens and as expats have repeatedly posted about their wish that the laws were relaxed so your assertion that "no one" misses it is patently false.
There is no call for widespread gun ownership and associated slaughter in Europe.
The laws we have are just fine that's why Europeans are safe. If the laws are to be relaxed to allow people access to guns who don't really need them major restrictions will still be in place to ensure public safety.
There is no cowboy myth in Europe guiding social and political policy but primarily used to sell stuff....
Who said: "I've always acted alone like the cowboy ... the cowboy entering the village or city alone on his horse ... He acts, that's all"?
Henry Kissinger to Oriana Fallaci in 1972, that's who.
Let me quote you the reduction ad absurdum of this myth, which dates back to 1979: "The West. It's not just stage-coaches and sagebrush. It's an image of men who are real and proud. Of the freedom and independence we all would like to feel. Now Ralph Lauren has expressed all this in Chaps, his new men's cologne. Chaps is a cologne a man can put on as naturally as a worn leather jacket or a pair of jeans. Chaps. It's the West. The West you would like to feel inside yourself."
Henry Kissinger to Oriana Fallaci in 1972, that's who.
Let me quote you the reduction ad absurdum of this myth, which dates back to 1979: "The West. It's not just stage-coaches and sagebrush. It's an image of men who are real and proud. Of the freedom and independence we all would like to feel. Now Ralph Lauren has expressed all this in Chaps, his new men's cologne. Chaps is a cologne a man can put on as naturally as a worn leather jacket or a pair of jeans. Chaps. It's the West. The West you would like to feel inside yourself."
Source. Its a good read
guardian/books/2013/mar/20/myth-of-the-cowboy?INTCMP=SRCH
Barney
24 Mar 2013
Law / The right to own guns: would you support such legislation in Poland? [2237]
There you go again Zim that is several times in the one thread, if you cannot debate the point don't bother. I suppose when you have nothing to copy/paste all you are left with is personal attacks so I will yet again have to forgive you ........
If your comprehension was up to the mark you would realise that my response above was a direct counter to your boast that you are great etc. I'll make it clear to you, Zimmy you never have an argument that has not been passed to you by an other person. You cut and paste from conspiracy sites, my personal favourite was the site that claimed Canada was governed by a giant pineapple. You are going to have to up your game considerably before you will be taken seriously.
The constitution of the US has nothing to do with Poland its irrelevant here. This thread is about whether Poland should relax its gun laws. The short answer is that no it should not, if you need a gun in Poland as in much of Europe you get one.
You seem to be the type of person
There you go again Zim that is several times in the one thread, if you cannot debate the point don't bother. I suppose when you have nothing to copy/paste all you are left with is personal attacks so I will yet again have to forgive you ........
If your comprehension was up to the mark you would realise that my response above was a direct counter to your boast that you are great etc. I'll make it clear to you, Zimmy you never have an argument that has not been passed to you by an other person. You cut and paste from conspiracy sites, my personal favourite was the site that claimed Canada was governed by a giant pineapple. You are going to have to up your game considerably before you will be taken seriously.
The constitution of the US has nothing to do with Poland its irrelevant here. This thread is about whether Poland should relax its gun laws. The short answer is that no it should not, if you need a gun in Poland as in much of Europe you get one.
Barney
24 Mar 2013
Law / The right to own guns: would you support such legislation in Poland? [2237]
This is circular, we are back to who makes the decision that the government is tyrannical and is that self appointed cabal tyrannical? If only there were some way to test public opinion.
There are "shooting people" decisions to be made even if everyone is armed when you decide to reject the ballot box and go down the road of rebellion.
Not really, defending your home in a fundamentally unequal and artificially created political entity is a matter of survival. More guns means more guns on both sides which means more death. Having weapons would not solve the base problem.
The fantasy is that the talk of fighting tyranny has zero perspective of how and what it would look like. If everyone had weapons the result is the same though with more death.
This goes for fighting any government Communist, Fascist and so on. The Stalin and Hitler stuff is just nonsense.
Not if weaponry is owned by the majority of citizen and they just resist enforcement of tyrannical law.
This is circular, we are back to who makes the decision that the government is tyrannical and is that self appointed cabal tyrannical? If only there were some way to test public opinion.
There are "shooting people" decisions to be made even if everyone is armed when you decide to reject the ballot box and go down the road of rebellion.
If you have no weapon then your options are limited. I'm afraid it is very much the same qestion.
Not really, defending your home in a fundamentally unequal and artificially created political entity is a matter of survival. More guns means more guns on both sides which means more death. Having weapons would not solve the base problem.
what is fantasy? That if most of citizens own guns they can easier defend themselves than without guns.
The fantasy is that the talk of fighting tyranny has zero perspective of how and what it would look like. If everyone had weapons the result is the same though with more death.
This goes for fighting any government Communist, Fascist and so on. The Stalin and Hitler stuff is just nonsense.
Barney
24 Mar 2013
Law / The right to own guns: would you support such legislation in Poland? [2237]
Your own view of history is not factual.
Name one successful rebellion that did not rely upon outside help.
You have an interesting version of history and make the same glaring mistakes as most of the antis.
Your own view of history is not factual.
Name one successful rebellion that did not rely upon outside help.
Barney
24 Mar 2013
Law / The right to own guns: would you support such legislation in Poland? [2237]
Zim, you only post links to dubious conspiracy sites to support your brainwashed corporate shill "arguments", don't be making this all about you and your deluded fantasy. Just try to address the issue instead of cutting and pasting quotes that have nothing to do with the topic.
It's crystal clear that you cannot explain how you expect a lightly armed bunch of people to defeat an army, its not going to happen it is just pub talk, neither of the things in that scenario are going to happen.
In previous forums, you've been verbally spanked by me several times before and it seems that you're asking me for "one more please". lol
Zim, you only post links to dubious conspiracy sites to support your brainwashed corporate shill "arguments", don't be making this all about you and your deluded fantasy. Just try to address the issue instead of cutting and pasting quotes that have nothing to do with the topic.
It's crystal clear that you cannot explain how you expect a lightly armed bunch of people to defeat an army, its not going to happen it is just pub talk, neither of the things in that scenario are going to happen.
Barney
23 Mar 2013
Law / The right to own guns: would you support such legislation in Poland? [2237]
I'm not against gun ownership for citizens, if there is a need for ownership then gun licenses should be issued people working in the country need guns. In the city hobbyists can shoot as many targets and clay pigeons as they want. In Europe there is not really any problem people who need guns get them, hunters get them as do target shooters. There are regulations on how guns should be stored and carried. There are additional regulations on the type of guns people should have access to Europeans are happy with this.
I live in a place where there was a tyrannical government that's why I keep hammering on that point.
The lack of answers of how to fight a tyrannical government is very telling these gun nut people have no idea what they are talking about.
When fighting a tyrannical gov decisions will have to be made to shoot some poor fellow in the back of the head or decide that he is still a target when off duty taking the kids to the cinema and so on.
Those decisions are sick and I want nothing to do with them. On the other hand defending your home and area is a very different question. I remember helping family find accommodation after their home was burnt and I commend the few people who were able to shoot back. At the time and for many years I wanted more guns however I know that more guns only means more death this is fact.
The fantasy talk of the gun crowd really annoys me its just pub talk they have exactly zero idea what they are talking about, their ignorance is staggering and extremely dangerous. They may live in a cowboy movie but the rest of us live in the real world.
you seems to fail to grasp the idea of gun ownership for citizens.
I'm not against gun ownership for citizens, if there is a need for ownership then gun licenses should be issued people working in the country need guns. In the city hobbyists can shoot as many targets and clay pigeons as they want. In Europe there is not really any problem people who need guns get them, hunters get them as do target shooters. There are regulations on how guns should be stored and carried. There are additional regulations on the type of guns people should have access to Europeans are happy with this.
I live in a place where there was a tyrannical government that's why I keep hammering on that point.
The lack of answers of how to fight a tyrannical government is very telling these gun nut people have no idea what they are talking about.
When fighting a tyrannical gov decisions will have to be made to shoot some poor fellow in the back of the head or decide that he is still a target when off duty taking the kids to the cinema and so on.
Those decisions are sick and I want nothing to do with them. On the other hand defending your home and area is a very different question. I remember helping family find accommodation after their home was burnt and I commend the few people who were able to shoot back. At the time and for many years I wanted more guns however I know that more guns only means more death this is fact.
The fantasy talk of the gun crowd really annoys me its just pub talk they have exactly zero idea what they are talking about, their ignorance is staggering and extremely dangerous. They may live in a cowboy movie but the rest of us live in the real world.
Barney
23 Mar 2013
Law / The right to own guns: would you support such legislation in Poland? [2237]
Zim as pointed out to you several times on this thread you stated that you want to fight tyranny I asked how and when yet you pretend there is no question that is dishonest.
Bringing a lot of quotes from a bunch of morally dubious slave owners does not an answer make. Nor does accusing any one who would like to see guns safely locked away of being either a communist or fascist make a good or logical argument. The point is that gun nuts suggest that fighting tyranny is a major reason that they should not be forced to keep their guns locked away, they are very vocal about this. They are vocal about Stalin and Hitler (rather quiet about Ho Chi Min mind) etc yet the same people are mighty quiet when asked how they would actually fight tyranny.
There are so many holes in the gun nut crowd's arguments that they cannot answer any pertinent questions, that's why they mouth hollow slogans.
I'll ask you again. What is your question? Do you actually have one?
Zim as pointed out to you several times on this thread you stated that you want to fight tyranny I asked how and when yet you pretend there is no question that is dishonest.
Bringing a lot of quotes from a bunch of morally dubious slave owners does not an answer make. Nor does accusing any one who would like to see guns safely locked away of being either a communist or fascist make a good or logical argument. The point is that gun nuts suggest that fighting tyranny is a major reason that they should not be forced to keep their guns locked away, they are very vocal about this. They are vocal about Stalin and Hitler (rather quiet about Ho Chi Min mind) etc yet the same people are mighty quiet when asked how they would actually fight tyranny.
There are so many holes in the gun nut crowd's arguments that they cannot answer any pertinent questions, that's why they mouth hollow slogans.
Barney
23 Mar 2013
Law / The right to own guns: would you support such legislation in Poland? [2237]
Now Zim you know that is dishonest. I know you cannot answer the question in the same way as a bar room braggard cannot live up to his own image.
The slave owners revolt?
I would take the writings of people more seriously if they were not hypocritical to the core.
The argument over taxation is equally hypocritical, these people when not living off government largesse were free loading, paying less taxes than others. It really was a case of do as I say not as I do.
couldn't find your question; what is it?
Now Zim you know that is dishonest. I know you cannot answer the question in the same way as a bar room braggard cannot live up to his own image.
They didn't think that in 1776
The slave owners revolt?
I would take the writings of people more seriously if they were not hypocritical to the core.
The argument over taxation is equally hypocritical, these people when not living off government largesse were free loading, paying less taxes than others. It really was a case of do as I say not as I do.
Barney
23 Mar 2013
Law / The right to own guns: would you support such legislation in Poland? [2237]
Should there be only one militia in the US, what happens if there is more than one?
Who then decides which interpretation of the constitution is correct?
Will there be a PPV fight to the death over constitutional law?
That means the Founding Fathers believed that the militia should be the most formidable military in the United States, far more powerful than the government.
Should there be only one militia in the US, what happens if there is more than one?
Who then decides which interpretation of the constitution is correct?
Will there be a PPV fight to the death over constitutional law?
Barney
23 Mar 2013
Law / The right to own guns: would you support such legislation in Poland? [2237]
Zim I asked a straight question, yet again you and the gun crowd in general cannot answer.
"Fighting tyranny" is often trotted out as a reason for these hobbyists and their corporate sponsors to continue pumping weapons into society. I don't think it's unreasonable to ask for answers yet this simple point is never addressed as can be seen in this very thread.
As there is zero chance of any government allowing its self to be overthrown it is a hollow boast.
Zim I asked a straight question, yet again you and the gun crowd in general cannot answer.
"Fighting tyranny" is often trotted out as a reason for these hobbyists and their corporate sponsors to continue pumping weapons into society. I don't think it's unreasonable to ask for answers yet this simple point is never addressed as can be seen in this very thread.
As there is zero chance of any government allowing its self to be overthrown it is a hollow boast.
Barney
22 Mar 2013
Law / The right to own guns: would you support such legislation in Poland? [2237]
The gun crowd keep saying that but never attempt to answer any questions. It's odd that such a vocal and apparently well reasoned lobby cannot answer any questions when asked, for example
Its your boast that you would fight surely you know when and how you would do this fighting or is it as I say a Hollow slogan with no grounding in reality?
edit: Barney notes: "the gun crowd cannot answer any questions..."
You wouldn't understand the answer if it sat on your lap and called you 'honey' :)
You wouldn't understand the answer if it sat on your lap and called you 'honey' :)
The gun crowd keep saying that but never attempt to answer any questions. It's odd that such a vocal and apparently well reasoned lobby cannot answer any questions when asked, for example
No; I'd rather fight a tyrannical government with modern weapons.
Would you care to explain how you would go about doing that?
Give me a hypothetical situation and I'll gladly explain.....
Its your boast that you would fight surely you know when and how you would do this fighting or is it as I say a Hollow slogan with no grounding in reality?
Barney
22 Mar 2013
Law / The right to own guns: would you support such legislation in Poland? [2237]
Smoke and mirrors?
It's clear that the gun crowd cannot answer any questions and why should they when hollow, half understood slogans are so much easier to mouth.
you're seeing through the smoke and mirrors
Smoke and mirrors?
It's clear that the gun crowd cannot answer any questions and why should they when hollow, half understood slogans are so much easier to mouth.