News / Polish Lithuanian Diplomatic War? At last. [533]


Out of interest, did Poland ever sign an agreement with Lithuania confirming the borders as permanent, like Poland diid with Germany?

News / Polish Lithuanian Diplomatic War? At last. [533]


No, they don't. They'll use the standard English alphabet, and as far as I know, even Welsh/Scots Gaelic/Irish diatrical marks aren't recognised in official documents. I could be wrong, but I've never seen an example of it.

The thing I don't understand - wouldn't it be easiest for Poland to simply issue the Lithuanian Poles with Polish passports?

News / Polish President Lech Kaczynski and gov officials die in a plane crash in Russia [686]


No no, I can't remember exactly who, but certain people in the military were appointed by Kaczynski to their posts - which sadly, they now have to investigate his death.

USA, Canada / Polack/American Polonia/Plastic Pole "culture" [568]

I just looked at my passport, says "British Citizen".

Odd. The place of birth is also in Scotland.

Very strange.

USA, Canada / Polack/American Polonia/Plastic Pole "culture" [568]

Do you know many? I don't.

USA, Canada / Polack/American Polonia/Plastic Pole "culture" [568]


Heck, even the Swiss try that game!

You should see the lengths that the Swiss go to in order not to pay customs duty.

But anyway, dodging a few taxes doesn't mean much. I don't do it, but if it's Poles doing the dodging, well, their call.

On the other hand, nothing is worse than "Polacks" who come to Poland to work cash-in-hand in language schools. Not only do they patronise people, but they evade tax too - and live here illegally!

News / Polish President Lech Kaczynski and gov officials die in a plane crash in Russia [686]


Do you think people like Komorowski, who was jailed for his opposition efforts, would seek to cover up the truth about the death of a democratically elected President of Poland at the hands of Russians?

It's a pretty loaded accusation to make.

Something you seem to forget - political allies of Tusk/Komorowski died in that plane as well.

History / Roman Dmowski-Patriot, Nationalist, Anti-Semite? [251]

Jonni, can I use this expression from now on? It's fantastic!

News / Polish President Lech Kaczynski and gov officials die in a plane crash in Russia [686]


Not when some of the people involved in the investigation were hand picked by Lech Kaczynski.

Anyway, a patriot by definition should support their actions, regardless of their motive.

Life / Polish authors, books & literature. [95]


Yes, the only Education Minister who managed to attract huge protests against his appointment. His entire era can be summed up through focusing on banning mobile phones instead of actually fixing the very real problems in Polish education.

Tell me, what did Giertych actually do as Education Minister? He certainly didn't abolish the mental law that forbids the explusion of children under 16 from school.

News / Polish President Lech Kaczynski and gov officials die in a plane crash in Russia [686]

Are you having problems understanding me?


The Polish investigators, as the Polish authority, are getting to the facts. Polish patriots should support them if they want to call themselves patriots.

News / Polish President Lech Kaczynski and gov officials die in a plane crash in Russia [686]


Personally, I don't care what the Russians say about the crash. But what the Poles say will be of great interest - unless of course, you're paranoid enough to believe that the Polish military will take part in a cover up.


Do I have to repeat myself?


A true Polish patriot will support the Polish military, and by extension, support the Polish investigators.

News / Polish President Lech Kaczynski and gov officials die in a plane crash in Russia [686]


Paying taxes, yes. Residing in Poland, yes. Doing everything that people normally do in Poland, yes. I even have a Polish driving licence. But I'm not a Polish citizen. Never claimed to be :)


Well, none of us are directly blaming the pilot, because we have to wait for the accident report. But - even if he did fly the plane into the ground, it merely means he screwed up in a moment of high stress - can anyone really blame him? As I keep saying - the approach wasn't too bad at all, it was just in the final critical seconds that he apparently failed to react.

Tell me, do you know how common CFIT is?


I'm interested in aviation and saw the consequences of the accident first-hand. It's hard not to be interested in such a topic.

News / Polish President Lech Kaczynski and gov officials die in a plane crash in Russia [686]


Do you realise how much time elapsed between the plane being "safe" (to put it crudely) and the plane being doomed? We're speaking a matter of seconds. I can't be bothered to go and dig out the charts, but it's somewhere about 15 seconds, perhaps not even so much. You have to appreciate that perhaps he pushed the plane a bit further than he should have - which means that he had even less time to "fly away".

I think you don't seem to understand that in this situation, a minor mistake was fatal. It certainly explains why you keep posting nonsense about aviation.


Uh... he was flying a plane in highly stressful circumstances, where he knew that failing to land would bring embarrassment to his Commander in Chief. He had the Air Force boss in the cockpit, and the weather conditions weren't great either. To make matters worse, the airport had no ILS and he was having to land the plane based on incomplete information available to him. Stressful, yes. Mistakes happen when you're stressed, and the "window of opportunity" was tiny.

Now, compare this with investigators who have all the time in the world to analyse the evidence. It's just not comparable at all.


As I said - a patriot supports the country's authority. Either you support the investigators, or you're not a patriot. End of.


Plenty of pilots with impeccable credentials have made mistakes in the past. Nothing new there. They're only human.


I'm still wondering where you get the idea that I'm pretending to be Polish from. Have I ever said that I was Polish? Don't think so, sunshine.

But thank you for making it clear that you aren't a Polish patriot at all. After all, at least I support the authority of Poland's military.

News / Polish President Lech Kaczynski and gov officials die in a plane crash in Russia [686]

English?

News / Polish President Lech Kaczynski and gov officials die in a plane crash in Russia [686]

Well, you're directly accusing the top military prosecutors in Poland of being inept. It's your call - but these people are highly experienced, they've got experience within NATO and generally - I'd trust them to be absolutely thorough.


Because these are the top military prosecutors from a fairly large NATO member, and the same NATO member is very close to America military-wise. It's your call, but I'm surprised that a Polish patriot would dare to call the military "inept".


I trust them. If you don't, you're not a patriot. End of story.

True Polish patriots don't question their military. And they especially don't question some of the top guys within the military structure in the Republic of Poland. These people are highly trained, they no doubt have received training from America/Germany/UK and they know what they're looking for.

Don't you think that maybe, they're working alongside other NATO members?


We've already debunked the nonsense posted in that link.

I find it incredible that you, a so-called Polish patriot is willing to call the Polish military "inept" and "reckless".

After all, from Webster -


merriam-webster.com/dictionary/patriot

So, make your mind up - are you a Polish patriot, or are you a dumb Polack?

News / Polish President Lech Kaczynski and gov officials die in a plane crash in Russia [686]


Jesus, I should have guessed that you'd come up with this.

For the last time - can you show me any credible source which has evidence of the film maker being assassinated? You can't.


Uh, there was no obligation for a military controller to speak English. The TAWS system was also working up until impact, so what are you babbling about?

As per usual - know nothings scream the loudest.

News / Polish President Lech Kaczynski and gov officials die in a plane crash in Russia [686]


Tell me - how do you know that the cockpit voice recorder is analogue and not digital? I've read almost every single statement made by the Polish and Russian authorities - and I haven't found anything on the matter.

Sorry, but the only idiot here is you, as per usual :) Stick to your scaremongering Gazeta Polska stories and I'll stick to the facts which the Polish military talk about.

At the end of the day - you're a traitor, and we should never trust Polish traitors.


Still wondering about this too - who actually wants this back, apart from one political faction not connected at all with the investigation?

News / Polish President Lech Kaczynski and gov officials die in a plane crash in Russia [686]


The piece of equipment that we're talking about was a specifically Polish piece of equipment. It has been said by the Polish investigators that the piece of equipment was sent to Poland to be opened, decoded and analysed. Sorry, but again - you're accusing the Polish investigators of lying. It's a dangerous game for a so called Polish-Patriot.

And you think that Polish investigators wouldn't notice any tampering when the results didn't collaborate with the Polish black box? So - now you're accusing the Polish investigators of not only lying, but also being inept.


At least 3. We also don't know what exactly was installed in that plane - it's entirely possible that they had a system similar to AF447 that was transmitting data "back to base".


No, they don't want to say anything because they know that what's being reported by Nasz Dziennik and the like are just sensationalist lies to sell newspapers. I know you're not in Poland and don't understand a damn thing about this country - but the stuff that you're quoting is well known to make up nonsense for political purposes.


But what does Poland want them for? The investigators haven't asked for them - in fact, no-one connected with the investigation has asked for them. There's no need - they've already been examined by a Polish investigator. Where they are at the minute is neither here nor there - they're largely irrelevant. I don't expect you to understand how these things work, but please, use some common sense. If the Polish investigation is happy, I'm happy.


Then you're accusing the Polish investigation of being useless, as well as lying. Your choice, patriot.

What will you do when the Polish investigation finds that Russia did nothing wrong? Are you going to go against the Polish military, patriot?

News / Polish President Lech Kaczynski and gov officials die in a plane crash in Russia [686]


What other Polish pilots?

The problem with your theory here is that Poland opened and examined her own military black box. Russia had no idea what this box was or what it did. Either the Polish box agreed with the transcripts, or you're accusing the top military prosecutors of lying. It's your choice. But if you're a Polish patriot, then you should respect the Polish military.

The fact that you call Tusk "President" tells me all I need to know about your knowledge of Poland - sweet **** all.

Incidentally, the black boxes were opened and copied in the presence of top Polish investigators. Poland has the copies. For obvious reasons, Poland isn't going to release the actual recordings out of respect for the dead pilots.

Poland's black box would give the game away instantly if this was the case. We'll soon find out - the 60 day deadline isn't far away.

Oh dear. Quoting Nasz Dziennik is always a bad idea - it's a sensationalist rag that openly lies to sell newspapers. But anyway - who are these pilots? Are they unnamed? Surprise.

As for the capacity of the tape - 30 minutes is the civilian standard. Don't you think that the Polish military, on a plane that carries the President/Prime Minister - might, just might, have a black box that can record more than 30 minutes? It's not exactly hard to implement!

As for the 16 second gap - we'll see what the Polish investigators have to say :) Unless of course - you believe that they would lie about an accident which killed their commander in chief.

Sadly, you've posted so much nonsense (portable ILS, anyone?) about this topic that your viewpoint is meaningless. I don't have an agenda - but you clearly do, as you seem obsessed with the idea of Russians killing Poles. On the other hand, I just want to know what happened - using fact and reason.

Don't you realise that the Polish Air Force is notoriously reckless?

Actually, Kaczynski's previous behaviour suggests that if they had closed Smolensk-North, there would have been a major diplomatic incident as a result. They certainly should have, and I expect that the Polish investigators will make a point of bringing this up.

News / Polish President Lech Kaczynski and gov officials die in a plane crash in Russia [686]


No, the Tusk side left it to the professionals in Poland. Like patriots, they trusted the military prosecutors to do the job. Unless you're suggesting that Polish professionals aren't good enough?


Haven't you heard all the desperation from Poland for America to commit to the defence of Poland?


So what was the pilot doing going below 120m? How can the ATC controller be responsible for the pilot's actions?


In this case? Really, nothing. They can assist, but the Captain is in control. And ATC are not responsible for enforcing the regulations under which the flight is conducted - in this case, ATC were not responsible for enforcing the 120m ceiling.

Indeed, as I understand it - even in civilian aviation, ATC is merely advisory.


Where? The transcript (which, don't forget, was released by the top Polish prosecutors) shows clearly that they were told that they couldn't land.


Incomplete? According to who?

The problem is MediaWatch, you're just not producing anything that stands up to scrutiny.

I find it amusing that you don't blame the Russians for not closing the airport, even though you could quite easily do so.

News / Polish President Lech Kaczynski and gov officials die in a plane crash in Russia [686]


So, you're saying that the Polish investigators aren't good enough? Very patriotic of you.

Incidentally, Poles don't particularly trust NATO either.


What crucial evidence? I'm not aware of Poland not having access to any crucial evidence. Certainly, the military prosecutors haven't said anything.


Hmm, wasn't the celing at 120m?

I only hope the investigation points out that the pilot only had a few seconds to react once they went below 120m.

News / Polish President Lech Kaczynski and gov officials die in a plane crash in Russia [686]


Who said anything about Kaczynski? As far as anyone knows, he's blameless, apart from the moral responsibility of making such a trip in the first place. His aide may be partially to blame for putting pressure on the pilots, however. Of course - perhaps you think that he's guilty?


That's what I thought, but I read something somewhere that confused me.

News / Polish President Lech Kaczynski and gov officials die in a plane crash in Russia [686]


Convex, can you clear something up that I'm not sure about?

When the plane reached 100m, what was the pilot supposed to do?

News / Polish President Lech Kaczynski and gov officials die in a plane crash in Russia [686]


That doesn't explain why the pilot descended below 100m when he wasn't cleared to do so. Nor does it explain why he attempted a landing when the conditions weren't suitable in the first place.


I couldn't care less about the Russian government. You seem to care much more than me :)


So, what have the Polish investigators been doing? You know, it's a *joint* investigation.

One rather large, important piece of evidence was examined in Poland thoroughly.

News / Polish President Lech Kaczynski and gov officials die in a plane crash in Russia [686]


I'm not interested in looking for conspiracy theories and secrets - I'm interested in facts.

Ask yourself - why would Russia bother to murder an insignificant President of a poor EU country? He had no ability to influence anything in EU-Russia relations, and if you aren't aware, he had no executive power.

But go on, I'm still waiting for you to tell me about the "facts" and "truth" about the Smolensk accident.

News / Polish President Lech Kaczynski and gov officials die in a plane crash in Russia [686]

It's worth pointing out that there weren't actually many members of the government on board at all. The President isn't part of the Government, for instance.

News / Polish President Lech Kaczynski and gov officials die in a plane crash in Russia [686]


Pilot error. I doubt there'll be any surprises in the final report, though it might give more of an idea as to some of the questions that have arose since the crash.

The problem is that there exists a vocal minority which refuses to accept that a Polish pilot could put the plane into the ground.

Law / Last Will and Testament - should items go to a Polish or EU person? [24]

There are still plenty of random checks.

News / Polish President Lech Kaczynski and gov officials die in a plane crash in Russia [686]


Stategic position in Europe? That hasn't mattered since the ICBM was invented. Even during the Cold War, Poland was a backwater - in fact, it was fortunate to avoid being incorporated into the USSR. Poland really is insignificant in the grand scheme of things - which is nice.


I think you're a bit delusional and certainly paranoid. Anyway, if the UK and Germany are such enemies, why did Lech Kaczynski ratify the Lisbon Treaty?


They couldn't care less about Poland. Why should they? It's a poor EU country, nothing else.