History / Heritage of partitions still present in Poland [107]

That for example:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_and_religious_composition_of_Austria-Hungary

Germany as a nationstate was very young and hence still insecure what it meant to be a German...for most of our history we had been a mishmash of many tribes, states, principalities and such....at one point over 500.

So the gov took the question who belongs to that new Germany very seriously...that all spoke the same language was a foundation of that. The concept of a Hochdeutsch that was spoken everywhere and used in all schools and official institutions was still not a implicitness. Instead regional dialect were often much stronger.

Only in that light one can understand the forceful implementation of German as main language already in the schools even where Polish was the main language. Germany did it with it's bavarian and frisian kids too...

History / Heritage of partitions still present in Poland [107]


Germany has never seen itself as a multi-kulti-people, that is slowly changing...but still meets alot of resistance...

But that many different people in its borders also destroyed Austria-Hungary in the end, so it was not only a strength either.

History / Heritage of partitions still present in Poland [107]


What's not to like! :)

Besides the Germanization I would hate as a Pole too..

News / Years of Poland in the EU - assessment of pros and cons [1199]

The big weakness off the nationalists you can count on....unable to work together! ;)

History / Modern myths and legends about communist past in Poland [250]

Very often when you ask socialists that question they will tell you that the whole history of 200 years of failed socialist/communist "experiments" weren't really the kind of socialism they envision.

And of course it was never the socialist ideal that failed...only the people who failed that ideal.

So, the ideal lives on...and they just wait to try anew.

Einstein had a great description for that: "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing yet expecting different results"

History / Polish attitudes towards ex-Soviet republics joining NATO [116]


Depends on the definition of superpower!

It's still weak and backwards...take away the revenues from their fossils and they will start to struggle to fund their mighty military.
That's the reason they lost the Cold War in the first place.

Putin is a smartie, I give you that....but that is also the reason why I blame him for Russia not leading the way it needs to. He had the support, the power and the time to modernize Russia...to put it on economically sound feet...to end that dependence on their gas and oil. He should know better!

But today Russia looks as corrupt and backwards as before...and he is back to the old games, using conflicts to strengthen his wavering power at home, including blowing the nationalist trumpet, declaring any other opinion as hostile and traiterous, jailing journos and dissenter.

He is a disappointment! No megaton nuclear bomb or the best assault rifle will change that...they lost despite of that 1989 and Russia is losing again.

History / Heritage of partitions still present in Poland [107]


Maybe they had been Germans all the time! :)

I stay by my opinion...folks in these lands have been so heavily mixed over the centuries we are the same. Scratch a German and you find a Pole and vice versa!

*bows out*

History / Heritage of partitions still present in Poland [107]


Sounds good to me...

History / Heritage of partitions still present in Poland [107]


Nah...you can't hold down an unwilling people forever. It was a do or don't situation...I believe the Prussians knew that.

With hindsight there was no way that such a strong developed sense of self, with such a long history, being an Empire once themselves, would just dissolve into another nation just like that. There would be always resistance and a yearning for their own souvereignity again.

I compare that abit with the Ukraine today...

A Pole by himself, purposely immigrating to Germany, is something else but a whole country, against its will. That couldn't end peacefully.

History / Heritage of partitions still present in Poland [107]


I don't want to go into a pissing contest, foreign occupation sucks every time.

But maybe we can agree that Prussia was not the most successful country of that time for nothing...they brought abit (unwanted I agree) of that to Poland...



en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prussian_Partition#Economy

Better education plus a gov that supports the economy, the industrialization, agricultural development and you get a better developed region. That's not rocket science.

What I found interesting is that a big part of the actual population was there implanted after the war from the more rural, backwards east polish region and now they vote differently than the people in their former home.

Or maybe there had been more former Prussian-Poles left than thought...

History / Heritage of partitions still present in Poland [107]

Nah...Spikey said that the prussian partition became wealthier and better developed because the Poles fighted the Germans.

And not because of that:

"...From the economic perspective, the territories of the Prussian Partition were the most developed, thanks to the overall policies of the government.[7] The German government supported efficient farming, industry, financial institutions and transport.[7]"....

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prussian_Partition#Economy

That implies that the Poles in the russian and austro-hungarian partitions enjoyed their life and freedoms instead...THAT is fascinating! :)

History / Heritage of partitions still present in Poland [107]


So....the russian partition and the austro-hungarian partition was no cause for a reaction?

Please help me to understand...that is fascinating! :)

History / Heritage of partitions still present in Poland [107]

So...does that mean Poles need oppression to be successful? If they are enjoying freedom then they stop working? :)

Very interesting! :)

History / Heritage of partitions still present in Poland [107]

So, you mean the russian and austro-hungarian partitions lacked the Germans? That's why they stayed poorer and less developed because the Russians and Austro-Hungarians weren't as hated as much?

History / Heritage of partitions still present in Poland [107]

So...the ex-german parts of Poland are not only wealthier but the people living there are more not east-polish? :)

I find that astounding, I learned that after the expellations of the Germans the lands in now-west Poland had been re-settled with Poles who where expelled from now-ukrainian lands..meaning ex-east-Poles...

One could think that there wouldn't be such a clear cut difference..

History / Polish attitudes towards ex-Soviet republics joining NATO [116]

Okay...a simple question:

Do you think a Poland led by nationalists like Spike would be good for Poland in the long run?

History / Polish attitudes towards ex-Soviet republics joining NATO [116]

...."so much suffering", not all of it!

History / Polish attitudes towards ex-Soviet republics joining NATO [116]


I think, since nationalism has been responsible for so much suffering in the last century yes, there needs to be a differentiation.

Otherwise you leave it to the lefties who want to do away with any pride in country and people full stop.

History / Polish attitudes towards ex-Soviet republics joining NATO [116]

He calls himself nationalist...

History / Polish attitudes towards ex-Soviet republics joining NATO [116]


I differ....you are a proud Pole without hating me and my country Germany...for me you are a patriot, like me. We both want whats best for our countries, and we would like to achieve that together....and have a beer afterwards.

But someone like Spike for example can't help hating me and my country and would love for Poland to fight Germany again, for him both countries are not equal, Poland is so much better and Germany just sucks, the Germans (all 80 million of them) suck, he is a bonafide nationalist. He would end all cooperation rather today than tomorrow.

There lies the difference, an important difference, it's just not the same!

History / Polish attitudes towards ex-Soviet republics joining NATO [116]

Nationalism has gotten a bad rep, because of history...but deservedly so.

That's why there is the alternative of patriotism. I can be proud of my country and want the best for it without hating another one and want that to suffer....

History / Polish attitudes towards ex-Soviet republics joining NATO [116]


Why?

Can't you be proud of your country without denigrating and fighting others?

Patriots can work together with other patriots to the best advantage of all, nationalists can't and won't....it's always "Us vs Them".

News / Years of Poland in the EU - assessment of pros and cons [1199]


How so?

Because as I see it...the EU will only then break apart when all it's member states are taken over by nationalists.

Now I would want to see trade negotiations between a bunch of hostile nationalist governments....then it's back to the old pecking order, the bigger ones trampling down on the smaller ones, who have to take what is being offered. (Not really negotiations between equals).

That's my opinion, you must have a different outlook or you wouldn't follow that path and wish for it to come true. So please, explain it to me...

Where do you see Poland?

News / Petition for War Crimes Reparations for Poland [126]


Do you remember how Greece looked like before the EU membership? They used donkeys on dusty streets...till 1974 they were ruled by a military junta ffs.

Without the EU and the EURO they would still look like this! They don't need anybody to be corrupt and a failed state.

News / Petition for War Crimes Reparations for Poland [126]


*nods and follows Dolno into the next pub*

News / Petition for War Crimes Reparations for Poland [126]

He is a nationalist, like you! :)

News / Petition for War Crimes Reparations for Poland [126]

Wessis make jokes like that about us Ossis too, you know.....

News / Petition for War Crimes Reparations for Poland [126]


Isn't that what the Single Market is for? :)

News / Petition for War Crimes Reparations for Poland [126]


What do you mean with "it doesn't exist"?

News / Petition for War Crimes Reparations for Poland [126]

The so called "Prussian trust" and the west german Vertriebenenverbund was actually a big feared thing back then in Poland. Hence the urge to get that treaty about the Oder-Neisse-Border officially done...I remember weakly...