History / Why are Poles/Poland disliked by Germans? [140]

*nods*

Western Europe has had decades more time get on an equal footing. I'm looking at the relationship between another set of once-arch enemies, France and Germany. Decades of sending schoolkids back and forth put an end to that. Tourism, university-exchanges etc...that all did their job.

Today it is nigh unthinkable for modern Frenchies and Germans to go back to the old hate...maybe in a few decades in the future it will be the same between Germany and Poland.

It's easier to hate an unknown country than a real life person...

History / Why are Poles/Poland disliked by Germans? [140]

Wrong? ...Even you know that a huge majority of the Poles is pro-EU. These polls even make the international headlines, your "polls" don't. Doesn't it make you wonder?

For your links I have to use Google translate and there isn't even a background to these "polls"...

And then there are real polls and surveys:


independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/poland-eu-membership-support-for-membership-courts-rule-of-law-mateusz-morawiecki-juncker-a8149876.html


politico.eu/article/germany-poland-no-longer-seen-as-threat-poll/


I would like to know, what do you think about Korwin-Mikke and his statements?

History / Why are Poles/Poland disliked by Germans? [140]


The same reason why these people would make derogatory comments about Poles....plain ignorance. *shrugs*

Most of them never put a foot either into Ossi-land nor Poland...which leads me back to Tacitus' and mine main argument that this dislike stems from a lack of actual "knowing" besides hearing bad stuff about a PiS gov in Warsaw.

Germans like to travel around, but still mainly western and southern Europe. Abit more tourism eastwards would change things big in a good way...win-win situation.


I used Google to translate this page and it gave out such stuff like this:

...Interestingly, the majority of young people, despite their right-wing outlook, do not support the ruling party, or PiS. This should not come as a surprise, because this party has little to do with the pure right. Therefore, the young would be happy to support the Kukiz'15 group, as many as 27 percent of them, and 19 percent of Janusz Korwin-Mikke's party - Freedom.

That goes against all known surveys and Polls I know off. Korwin-Mikke is an absolute fringe outsider, even between polish nationalists. And what is "pure right"?

That reminds me more about another survey you posted a few days back...that 90% Poles are anti-EU or something like that. Also made by a Korwin-Mikke friendly party...

Frankly, I doubt that!

But I have to agree that it is the likes of Korwin-Mikke who make not only Germans shake their heads about Poland (if that is all they learn about the country and its people).

Korwin-Mikke and his statements like:



I frankly doubt that 66% of the young Poles would support THAT!

History / Why are Poles/Poland disliked by Germans? [140]


Here ditto! :)

History / Why are Poles/Poland disliked by Germans? [140]


The problem as I see it is that the Germans here at PF actually like Poles...me, Tacitus...Intermarium even thinks about relocating to Poland...

So it comes down to Poles (often not even from Poland at all) confirming each other about how much they dislike the Germans right back!

That leads to nowhere, I fear....

History / What is Poles opinion on Intermarium (Międzymorze)? [188]


Hmm...I doubt that.

The foundation of the V4 was an interesting step, the idea had alot going for it. But the reality shows they don't live removed from the rest of Europe on a happy island...

History / What is Poles opinion on Intermarium (Międzymorze)? [188]


I don't think he makes any decisions to "hit" Russia...he wants to support US firms selling expensive LNG"s and as long as you buy from him instead from the rival you are a "goodie" in his black book...that's a small but important difference, remember "MAGA".

The same with the INF treaty....the Kreml won't be now anymore oblieged to keep to the treaty either, which opens the doors to a new weapons race.


edition.cnn.com/2019/02/02/europe/russia-inf-treaty-intl/index.html

How cuddly for all countries between them, right?

There is nothing pro-polish or pro-V4 or anti-russian about Trumps decisions. I wouldn't bet on him when the **** hits the fan...

History / What is Poles opinion on Intermarium (Międzymorze)? [188]

...and you totally avoided the core of my question, the sympathies by some of V4's members for Putin's Russia.

Russia doesn't want anymore US meddling in Europe, Trump seems to agree with that. So do the Russian-sympathizers in Europe....

I that regard the anti-refugee engine will run on empty very soon, as the quota-idea is now dead for good, and the numbers for newly incoming refugees are sinking lower and lower.

But the Russia-question still stands and will gain importance!

History / Why are Poles/Poland disliked by Germans? [140]

I think Spike here thinks himself and Poland superior to Germans, am I right? :)

History / What is Poles opinion on Intermarium (Międzymorze)? [188]


What about V4 generally? Do you think it is viable in the long run, with it's members split on Russia? How should any US backing solve that?

History / Why are Poles/Poland disliked by Germans? [140]


Wise words! I would agree...

When you don't know anybody personally, all you have to fall back on are stories...

History / Why are Poles/Poland disliked by Germans? [140]


Do you? Then why do you dismiss Tacitus' and mine opinion about that?

History / Why are Poles/Poland disliked by Germans? [140]

What do you think the Germans in these surveys did? The reason why you started that thread....

Do you think disliking Poles is stigmatized in Germany?

Wouldn't that be rather cool (for Poles)? :)

History / Why are Poles/Poland disliked by Germans? [140]

So...it's really more about the Poles than the Germans, right?

History / Why are Poles/Poland disliked by Germans? [140]

So...is that in truth about polish dislike of Germany?

Because I always ever meet Poles using the history as a reason to distrust/dislike Germans, never the other way around....

History / Why are Poles/Poland disliked by Germans? [140]


IMHO it's the other way around....when you feel disrespected and don't get the attention you want and you think you deserve that's much more of a reason to dislike someone and call him "arrogant".

I really don't think you will find many Germans who will say they deem the Poles inferior! :)

PS: You can claim reasons 2 and 3 also for Greece (messy, unorganized, badly run etc.). But still many Germans like Greeks nonetheless and spend their holiday every year there to get fried in the sun.

I think that's the main reason, I agree with Tacitus on that. Poland as a holiday destination has surely room to grow and with meeting and getting to know each others the sympathies will rise.

History / What is Poles opinion on Intermarium (Międzymorze)? [188]

I'm not sure....I wonder about that actually.
Putin tries to break up the EU, he get's his claws into the V4, then into the Brussel-opposition of it's core members....he pays them, uses paid trolls, his RT and Sputnik propaganda etc......

What use is a hostile Poland to him? PiS is Brussels-sceptic...check...but that leaves Poland rather isolated in Brussels but not much else and his added hostility to Russia makes it not usable for the Kremlins goals actually.

Putin doesn't gains anything from a Poland which shoots to both sides...

History / What is Poles opinion on Intermarium (Międzymorze)? [188]

So...do you think it's one sided from Moscow only? What would they get out of it?

History / What is Poles opinion on Intermarium (Międzymorze)? [188]


Agreed!

Orban is by far not as hostile to Putin/Russia as PiS-Warsaw wishes, quite the contrary. They are not that steadfast allies in Brussels either (Tusk election)...


irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/vladimir-putin-and-viktor-orban-hail-ties-and-discuss-energy-and-finance-1.3633439

I wonder if there ever will be a functional, close V4 without Hungary and the Czechs....


euractiv.com/section/central-europe/news/the-v4-will-never-agree-on-russia/


What makes it so difficult for Warsaw seems to be the little fact that most if not all possible anti-Brussel allies are also deeply in Putin's pocket. Wich makes any anti-Brussel + anti-Putin stance by PiS to a quite isolated and hardly viable one, longterm....

History / Why do Polish people hate to be called Eastern European? [120]

Sooooooooooooooooo PROUD!

History / Why do Polish people hate to be called Eastern European? [120]


Proud to be European!

News / Pawel Adamowicz, Gdansk mayor, dies after stabbing [354]


So...everybody else is a "traitor to the people"?

Now why does that sound so familiar...what's next? The patriotic adults come knocking in the night? The Gulag?

Life / Feeling ashamed of my Polish heritage. [237]


And at least those of us with blue eyes share definitely the same ancestor, the first with that mutation, no matter if we identify today as Germans or Poles...heh:)

News / Pawel Adamowicz, Gdansk mayor, dies after stabbing [354]


What is that online campaign about?

News / Pawel Adamowicz, Gdansk mayor, dies after stabbing [354]


I would like to see something like that re-emerge...it would be great for these lands.


...as I said, in your mind only!

The german past of Danzig is very much alive and kicking...as the last minutes here in this very thread just proved! It even influenced if you were sad or happy about a murder!

I fear nobody is really "over it"! Or the temper/fear/anger/accusations wouldn't fly that high that quickly...

Life / Feeling ashamed of my Polish heritage. [237]


His family is of german heritage:

Donald Trump's paternal ancestry is traceable to Bobenheim am Berg, a village in the Palatinate, Germany, in the 18th century. Johann Trump, born in Bobenheim in 1789, moved to the nearby village of Kallstadt where his grandson, Friedrich Trump, the grandfather of Donald Trump, was born in 1869.

But I'm fairly sure he identifies fully as USian...

Life / Feeling ashamed of my Polish heritage. [237]

I would add an emotional connection.

Imagine a football game (or any other team game you love)...let's say its between Germany and Poland....whom are you cheering for?

That is always a good question for any kind of immigrant....there are lots of Turks in Germany who have grown up and lived here in the now third generation (with german IDs by now) and still cheer for the turkish team when it comes to play Germany.

Citizenship is an official act, the culture you can learn about in school, but all that does nothing for the heart!

Off-Topic / American Jew Voice in Poland [93]


Do you have a link?

Life / Feeling ashamed of my Polish heritage. [237]


Yes, time matters...there is such a thing as mixing, intermarrying through the centuries...you know :)

I call them "Germoles"! :) Only separated by politics. Some of them have german surnames, some of them have polish surnames, some of them grew up as Poles, some of them grew up as Germans, but their ethnicity is forever mixed. There must be millions of them by now...a whole new country!

Life / Feeling ashamed of my Polish heritage. [237]


....and I think this answer has been already given.

If Poles would really prefer to stay poor but polish they wouldn't walk all over Europe in search for work and better shores. They would stay home, poorer but as Poles in polish Poland.