The BEST Guide to POLAND
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Posts by Paulina  

Joined: 31 Jan 2008 / Female ♀
Warnings: 1 - Q
Last Post: 30 Oct 2024
Threads: Total: 16 / Live: 10 / Archived: 6
Posts: Total: 4338 / Live: 3329 / Archived: 1009
From: Poland
Speaks Polish?: yes

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Paulina   
7 Jan 2013
History / POLAND: EASTERN or CENTRAL European country? [1080]

If the Slavic and Finno-Ugric languages are considered eastern, then Finland, Estonia, Hungary, Poland, the Czech Republic, Slovakia, Ukraine, Belarus, Russia, Bulgaria, Slovenia and what have you are eastern linguistically.

And where did you read that Slavic languages are considered only Eastern?

"Throughout Central and Eastern Europe and Russia"
(I don't quite get it why there's no mention of Southern Europe, though lol)

From: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavic_languages

The most obvious differences between the West and East Slavic branches are in the orthography of the standard languages: West Slavic languages are written in the Latin script

Although the Slavic languages diverged from a common proto-language later than any other group of the Indo-European language family, enough differences exist between the various Slavic dialects and languages to make communication between speakers of different Slavic languages difficult.

Now, if Poland was geographically in Eastern Europe and West Slavic languages didn't differ from East Slavic languages I wouldn't even utter a word as far as classification of languages is considered.

So, could someone explain it to me why is Polish, Czech and Slovak considered Eastern and by whom?

an unreasonable bunch that likes to deviate from what you said for 7 pages just because they think of themselves as the epicenter of the world.

As Harry would say: you're lying, berni23 :) I didn't claim that I think Poland is the epicenter of the world nor did anyone else claim that.

If you really think that saying Poland is a Central European country stems from thinking of Poland as "the epicenter of the world" then you have some serious problem O_O
Paulina   
6 Jan 2013
History / POLAND: EASTERN or CENTRAL European country? [1080]

He put some map of ethnicieties from deviantart.

LOL
OMG, you're right - I didn't even notice that! ;D
DeviantART is an art site, there's definitely nothing scientific about it lol:
ay-deezy.deviantart.com/art/Globaly-ethnic-map-of-Europe-261818018

From the artist's comment:

I know that I forget many people but its a good beginning right ?

Oh dear ;D
Paulina   
6 Jan 2013
History / POLAND: EASTERN or CENTRAL European country? [1080]

So what is an Eastern European language ?

There's no such thing.
Languages of Europe are divided into:

1. Indo-European languages:

a) Albanian
b) Armenian
c) Baltic languages
d) Celtic
e) Germanic
f) Greek
g) Indo-Iranian languages
h) Romance languages
i) Slavic

2. Languages not from the Indo-European family:

From: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_Europe

PS Since when "deviantart" is a source of information?

What do you mean?
Paulina   
6 Jan 2013
History / POLAND: EASTERN or CENTRAL European country? [1080]

Indeed: /wiki/Romanian_language

Romanian [...] is a Romance language spoken by around 24 million people as a native language, primarily in Romania and Moldova, and by another 4 million people as a second language.[4][5] It has official status in Romania, Republic of Moldova, the Autonomous Province of Vojvodina in Serbia and in the autonomous Mount Athos in Greece.

Paulina   
6 Jan 2013
History / POLAND: EASTERN or CENTRAL European country? [1080]

You did? Must have escaped me.

Really?
I can repeat myself then, no problem :)
Simple question: are Finnish and Portuguese both Western languages?

Linguistically, Finnish, spoken by most Finns, is part of the Uralic language family and is most closely related to other Finnic languages such as Karelian and Estonian, while Swedish, spoken by Swedish-speaking Finns, is unrelated to the Finnish language and a member of the Indo-European language family. Finnish has loanwords from Swedish, other Germanic and broader Indo-European languages in different chronological layers while Swedish has few loan words from the Finnic languages. Some scholars have argued that, genetically, Finns "have been shown to differ strikingly from other European populations".[16]

Quote from: /wiki/Finns

Finnish belongs to the Uralic language family and is most closely related to Karelian and Estonian.
Portuguese is Iberian Romance language.
The Finnish and the Portuguese people even look different. In terms of looks probably Poles and Germans are more alike :)

So how would you call Finnish language? (the Uralic language family)
Estonian? (the Uralic language family)
Hungarian? (the Uralic language family)

Western? Eastern? Central?

Nothing to do with my original statement.

Then why are you posting it?
Paulina   
6 Jan 2013
History / POLAND: EASTERN or CENTRAL European country? [1080]

Since than you brought religion, alphabets and even architecture to prove otherwise.
Now you are throwing Greeks, Finns and the poor Portuguese into your equation.
I have proven my point repeatedly, know that the majority of the scientific community would agree with that statement and am tired of you drifting off.

First of all, I was also discussing with jon357, not only with you, and so I "brought religion, alphabets and even architecture".
Secondly, there's no such thing like "Eastern Europe" in terms of ethnicity and language, just like there's no such thing like "Western Europe" in terms of ethnicity and language as I've just proven in my previous post.

Besides, if we would take your map into account we could still divide Europe into Central, Eastern and Southern:

Polish, Czech and Slovak languages are clearly Central.

And, look, Sweden and Finland are right above Poland! Aren't they Eastern by any chance, in terms of geography? lol
Paulina   
6 Jan 2013
History / POLAND: EASTERN or CENTRAL European country? [1080]

I fail to understand what this has to do with categorizing Poland geographically based on ethnicity and language.

Terms "Western Europe", "Central Europe" and "Eastern Europe" are broader terms and aren't only based on geography, ethnicity and language.

If they were, country like Greece wouldn't be considered Western. Greek language belongs to Hellenic languages and Greece is in the South of Europe and it belongs to the Balkans together with Bulgaria, Albania, Serbia, Croatia, etc.

What the Finnish people with their Finnish language from Uralic language family have to do with Italians or the Portuguese? They're closer to Karelian people living in Russia than to them. But Finland, Italy and Portugal are considered Western, yes?

Even the Slavic nations, based on their ethnicity, language and culture can be divided into West Slavs, East Slavs and South Slavs. I didn't come up with this division, you know :) Professionalists did.

So, again, what about such countries like:
Hungary
Romania
Estonia
Latvia
Lithuania
Albania

Are these countries: Central, Western or Eastern?
They have to be called somehow, they're not "Martian Europe" after all, right? :)
Paulina   
6 Jan 2013
History / POLAND: EASTERN or CENTRAL European country? [1080]

As I thought - you don't want to name them.

Just take the language and ethnicity map and you have the countries belonging to the Eastern European group.

So, according to you Belarus, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Bulgaria, Croatia, the Czech Republic, the Republic of Macedonia, Montenegro, Poland, Russia, Serbia, Slovakia, Slovenia and Ukraine are Eastern Europe, yes?

Then what about such countries like:
Hungary
Romania
Estonia
Latvia
Lithuania
Albania

Are these countries: Central, Western or Eastern?
Paulina   
6 Jan 2013
History / POLAND: EASTERN or CENTRAL European country? [1080]

I have answered it several times, you are just to lazy to count them yourself.

Liar, liar, as Harry would write :) Not even once have you answered my question. You've just posted some maps that were contradicting each other.

You're not able to name Eastern European countries. Or you don't wan't to name them - I wonder why? :)
Paulina   
6 Jan 2013
History / POLAND: EASTERN or CENTRAL European country? [1080]

As always taking the thread off topic with your elementary school knowledge.

Berni23, berni23, you still haven't answered my elementary question: which countries do you consider Eastern European? :)

geographically of course but politically there isn't really such a thing.

What do you mean by that?
Paulina   
6 Jan 2013
History / POLAND: EASTERN or CENTRAL European country? [1080]

but paulina if as you say Poland is in the 'west'

I've never claimed Poland is in the West. What I'm writing all the time is that Poland is Central Europe.
Paulina   
6 Jan 2013
History / POLAND: EASTERN or CENTRAL European country? [1080]

Still cant let it go, ehh?

No, actually I'm educating people about Eastern Europe, as it seems you guys just don't have a clue, and I know a thing or two :)

What's wrong, Westerners don't like to learn about other cultures?

Now you only need to convince everybody on how language and ethnicity wise Poland belongs to the West and you are ready to start the New Year as the epicenter of the world.

Don't worry, sweetie, I'm not going to take away your precious West! :D

A hint: Lead with the alphabet, continue with German, the French and even English loan words and culminate how Poland was in space.

Did you know that the first man in space was sent not by Germans, not by French and not even by the British?? :D
He was sent by Russians! His name was Yuri Alekseyevich Gagarin - I'm sure they teach you in the West such basic things :))))
Paulina   
6 Jan 2013
History / POLAND: EASTERN or CENTRAL European country? [1080]

One of the differences between East European and Central European culture/tradition is the fact that Eastern Europeans start celebrating Christmas today! It's because Orthodox Churches follow the Julian calendar: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julian_calendar

We follow the Gregorian calendar: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gregorian_calendar

Spain,[19] Portugal, the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, and most of Italy implemented the new calendar on Friday, 15 October 1582, immediately following Julian Thursday, 4 October 1582.

The Julian calendar is much older than the Gregorian, it was used in the first centuries of Christianity.

Orthodox Christians during Christmas Eve supper share prosphora instead of Christmas wafer: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prosphora

According to Wikipedia Christmas wafer originated in Poland and is used only in Central Europe: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas_wafer

So, for Orthodox Christians the New Year is still to come! Russians celebrate the New Year twice! :D

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_New_Year

And something that is completely weird for Poles - Russians have Christmas tree and they exchange presents on the New Year!:

Btw, there's about 550-600 000 Orthodox Christians in Poland.

In case there are any Orthodox Christians on this forum from whichever country, I wish you:
С Рождеством Христовым!
Wesołych Świąt!
Merry Christmas!
:)))
Paulina   
3 Jan 2013
History / POLAND: EASTERN or CENTRAL European country? [1080]

Pleased to hear it, not that it makes the slightest different either way.

Different? You mean "difference"? It doesn't make the slightest difference concerning what?

Indeed it is, for many reasons - culture, cuisine, economics, etc.

You keep repeating that over and over again, but you're not able to prove it or at least explain what you mean.
What is Eastern about Polish culture?
Art and architecture are elements of culture.
I was asking you what is Eastern about Polish architecture. You weren't able to answer that question.
To make it easier for you I've asked you which of the Western architecture styles you can find in Russia.
Your answer was: "Most of them".
So, what are those "most of Western architecture styles" in Russia? Do you even have the slightest idea what you're writing about?

How a country can be Eastern in regard to economics ? You mean it's poor ? So once we get ahead of Portugal (which should happen within 5 years), Portugal will be Eastern then ?

LOL Exactly :)
Paulina   
2 Jan 2013
History / POLAND: EASTERN or CENTRAL European country? [1080]

Most of them, Paulina.

Really? Romanesque? Gothic? Renaissance? Could you show or name examples?

That doesn't make a masterpiece typical,though, does it?

I'm not sure what you mean?
Paulina   
2 Jan 2013
History / POLAND: EASTERN or CENTRAL European country? [1080]

I think that the silence means that he declined the challenge.

We'll see.

I hate when people prentend to be smarter than others but when ask for details they dissapear.

Yeah, I hate that too ;)
Paulina   
2 Jan 2013
History / POLAND: EASTERN or CENTRAL European country? [1080]

it was established that we are indeed in Eastern Europe.

By whom? By you? :)

Perhaps that's because I (and various other posters who've made the same points) am right.

Jon, just because you say you're right it doesn't make you right ;)
Do you know why I proposed architecture for the topic of our discussion? Because I've spent 5 years studying history of art and architecture, I've graduated from an art school with top marks and I've visited some countries in Western and Central Europe for the sole purpose of sightseeing, so I have some idea about what I'm writing.

Poland had all the Western styles of architecture. From Romanesque architecture to Art Nouveau - have your pick.
Now, which of the Western architecture styles can you find in Russia?

So you're posting in a thread that you haven't bothered to read and are accusing others of being lazy!

I have a dry eye syndrome resulting from Sjögren's syndrome. So, no, it's not laziness... I'm a bit disadvantaged in the terms of reading, you see. If I could, I would read the whole thread. It's not always easy to admit to your weaknesses :) Taking part in this discussion is already a challenge...

That does rather cast doubt on anything else you've tried to say.

No, it doesn't.
Paulina   
2 Jan 2013
History / POLAND: EASTERN or CENTRAL European country? [1080]

I doubt you could do that if you tried with all the skill you can muster, however you may like to scan through some earlier posts in this thread by myself and others in which the matters you are interested in have been discussed fully.

No, jon, I'm not gonna read 23 pages, sorry. You weren't lazy when you wrote that Poland is Eastern in basically everything so don't be lazy in proving it. At least couple of sentences, some photos, come on :) I've proposed you just one topic for discussion - Polish architecture.

I can't think of anything "onion shaped" other than that.

Well, maybe a mosque could have something like that :)
pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meczet_w_Bohonikach

I guess Poland is Middle East since we have mosques too ;)

Actually the village has one of each, RC and Polish Orthodox. Both have onion domes.

Now that's cool - could make photos of each? :)
Paulina   
2 Jan 2013
History / POLAND: EASTERN or CENTRAL European country? [1080]

John I live in Poland! I'm right now in Poland! And I have no idea what are you talking about!

Me too :)) I was born in Poland, I live here all my life and I visited Western and Central European countries, but I'm not sure what he's talking about. Maybe he's writing about Orthodox churches?
Paulina   
2 Jan 2013
History / POLAND: EASTERN or CENTRAL European country? [1080]

Perhaps you think that agriculture is the same everywhere.

So agriculture can be Eastern too? xD You've got me completely confused about what you understand as "landscape".
Do you mean: nature
Or: nature and architecture
Or maybe: only architecture?

No, I mean church. 'Cerkiew' is a Polish word.

I know how it's called in English, but I wanted to know whether you mean by that an Orthodox/Greek Catholic Church? This is how it's called in Polish - "cerkiew". A Catholic church is "kościół".

Or even better, perhaps you could explain why you think/pretend it isn't.

No, don't be lazy :) You wrote that, so now explain why you "think/pretend" it is.
In order not to encumber you too much - let's start with architecture, since you've mentioned "onion-domed church" :)
What is Eastern about Polish architecture? Explain, please :)
Paulina   
2 Jan 2013
History / POLAND: EASTERN or CENTRAL European country? [1080]

Actually I'm being very objective and absolutely unbiased.

xD
I'm just as crushed by this assessment as Grzegorz is ;)))

You however seem to have an axe to grind, probably a mix of cultural cringe and misplaced nationalism.

Well, it's just shows how little (very little, really...) you know about me (yet you're quick to judge).
I don't have a "cultural cringe" and I'm not a nationalist. I'm a liberal by Polish standards, I vote for PO and pretty much detest PiS lol Not enough? I'm tolerant as far as nationality, race, and religion is concerned. I was very happy when Obama was elected and my eyes get all wattery every time I hear 'I Have a Dream' speech on TV ;) I've spent at least 5 years defending Russians and Russia (and East Slavs) from Poles on the internet (and in real life too). Not enough? I'm all for ecuminism of Christian denominations, I even went to Germany for a youth gathering of Taizé Community. I absolutely love how the Orthodox churches look like :) I also don't downgrade any other religions or cultures. I believe Judaism and Islam are Christianity's sister religions and it always pains me when we are at our throats.

My uncle is Ukrainian :)
I have Russian friends :)
Oh, and I have nothing against gays or lesbians too! Can you imagine? ;)
That's me in the jist, more or less.

I spend quite a lot of time in Central Europe, however here, where I live in Warsaw, is uncompromisingly Eastern Europe.

In what way is Warsaw Eastern Europe?

I'm not sure what the textspeak is about - perhaps you should attend a better language school, however yes, the landscape round here is much more Eastern than you'd like to admit.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landscape

Now, in what way landscape in Poland is more "Eastern" than, let's say, in Germany?

Check out the 'Europe of Squirrels' and the 'Europe of Rabbits' for a nice comparison.

What are you talking about? o_O
Squirrels and rabbits in Poland are more Eastern than in Germany? xD

Anyway, I'm just off to my friend's house out of town (single storey, wooden, opposite an onion-domed church) for some pierogi and vodka. Maybe some kasza and cabbage soup too.

Onion-domed church - you mean "cerkiew"?
And when you come back, tomorrow for example, will you explain why you consider Polish "culture, cuisine, tradition, language, history, architecture, landscape, economic output and geography" - as Eastern? :)
Paulina   
2 Jan 2013
History / POLAND: EASTERN or CENTRAL European country? [1080]

Google it. You'll certainly find plenty in this thread.

I've Google it and I'm definitely not suffering from that lol

We also share some with Italians, e.g. Pizza. Nobody. I hope nobody is suggesting that makes Poland part of Southern Europe. The overwhelming bulk of the Polish culinary tradition is Eastern European, part of a continuum stretching from the Polish western border right to Vladivostok.

Yes, we share Pizza with Italians too, as the rest of the world. But the rest of the world doesn't share saurkraut with the Germans ;) Or does it?

We also share religion, alphabet, architecture, art with the West.

Often a relative newcomer has far less political and cultural baggage and cares little about the various inter-Eastern European debates and arguments. In short, objectivity.

As already illustrated by my comment from 17:34 objectivity doesn't look like your strongest point... It's interesting that you think that you have less political and cultural baggage.

What I see is a lot of special pleading

You see it this way, becuase you're not being objective.

by people who earnestly want for whatever reason that Poland isn't in Eastern Europe, despite culture,

Listen, man, the only reason I even write in this thread is because of people like you and berni23. I don't have a special wish of being Central, Eastern or Martian for that matter lol Berni23 even doesn't want to enumerate Eastern European countries but wants Poland to be in Eastern Poland very much - you're not curious why?

despite culture, cuisine

I've already wrote about the culture. And as for cuisine - Polish cuisine is a mix of many cuisines, especially of our neighbours, but not only. For example, goulash isn't Slavic, you know ;) We also eat dishes that are considered Slavic (some claim they aren't because you have dumplings in Italy or Asia too), because we're Slavs lol Noone claims we aren't lol

tradition,

What tradition?

language,

Even the language is West Slavic language not East Slavic. Poles are West Slavs. So, yes, we differ from the East Slavs. Why is it such a problem for you?

history,

Wha...? How history can be Eastern? lol

architecture,

What's Eastern about Polish architecture? ;D

landscape,

O__________O

:D

OMG, in Poland even landscape is Eastern... The sky and the Sun probably too :D

economic output

What do you mean?

and geography.

According to geography Poland is Central Europe ;D

Basically a desire to separate Poland from centuries of tradition and from its largest and most dominant neighbour.

What tradition?
And what separates Poland from "its largest and most dominant neighbour" is a bit more then our desire ;) You're making biased assumptions, again.
Paulina   
2 Jan 2013
History / POLAND: EASTERN or CENTRAL European country? [1080]

The situation is a complicated one, and those posters who whine on about wanting Poland to be in Eastern rather than Central Europe would do far better to examine their motives for that wish.

:)

Objectivity - you've got to love it :)))
Paulina   
2 Jan 2013
History / POLAND: EASTERN or CENTRAL European country? [1080]

Could you detail it?Thanks.

Dear Lord, I've been discussing with Russians for 5/6 years... How can I detail it? lol
But I'll try to write something after I'll eat ;)

Just take the language and ethnicity map and you have the countries belonging to the Eastern European groups.

Berni, I don't care about maps as I'm not sure what they are telling you.
I want to know which countries YOU consider Eastern European.
Enumerate.... them... please :)

We are and claiming that France and Germany are culturally identical is ridicules.
They have been fighting for centuries.

Berni, you put that map on the forum intending to prove your point and you achieved the opposite, which I find quite funny, that's all ;)

Me neither, the fanatical views that Poland is ethnically and linguistically closer to the West than its eastern neighbors seem to be deeply rooted in some people.

You're twisting it, noone claims that Poland ethnically and linguistically is closer to the West than its Eastern neighbors (although maybe it is to some extent but I'm not going to go as far as digging in genetics lol). But culturally - yes, it's closer.

There is no reasoning with such people.

And what reasoning there can be with someone who can't even enumerate Eastern European countries?
Paulina   
2 Jan 2013
History / POLAND: EASTERN or CENTRAL European country? [1080]

Yeah, i want many things too.
You seem like an intelligent person and im sure you could manage.

Now, now, berni23, you won't slip away that easily :)
It's not about which countries I, Paulina, consider Eastern European, but which countries you, berni23, consider Eastern European. So, please, enumerate them. It's not like there are hundreds of them or something :)

They are not.

Photoshop says they are :)

I guess i have to retract my previous statement:

lol
So it came already to name calling, eh? :)
Are we talking about the same map?
Because I wrote about this one: