Warsaw Rising 1944 - National Disaster or Triumph of Spirit ?

@Barney
Could be one of those differences between brit and am English usage although jon is arguing for uprising.

Cordial is what you do at the opera house or when sipping tea with the King.

Brutal is how you win. See Stalingrad, Dresden, Hiroshima, and Nagasaki.

I wish the Red Army had nukes in 1945 to make its visit to Berlin more memorable. It worked so well for the US in Japan.

@Novichok

Cordial is what you ought to do when interacting with others civilly.

I could care less about winning an argument. In the end what matters is what is true and correct. An argument done correctly should be in the pursuit of what is true and correct.

We're humans not ducks (hat tip to maf).

So does Britannica...

What we all are overlooking is the possibility that the author used "Rising" to make a potential reader say: WTF...and actually buy the book out of curiosity.

It's a woman without a bra at the Oscars that gets the attention...

That's exactly what it was.

WTF did you expect the Poles to do?

Never!

You are nice and naive...After the years here, it is clear that the enemy never, ever says "You are right". At best, they just shut up. Later, the scum will tell you that they won.

Been there, done that...

What is a woman? How many damn times have I asked this question? Only maf responded. How many times did I ask about immigration and migrants? How many times did I mentioned NATO as the reason why Russia reacted they way it? Do you remember "It's not NATO"? It's Putin and his desire to be the dictator of the Universe...

Tell me why morons like this should be treated any better than NY rats...

Help the Red Army liberate Poland ASAP and recognize that Poland's future will be in the Soviet hands. That geography is a bit*ch...

@Novichok

I'm neither nice nor naive. I've been around the block more than once. It is through civility that you will more effectively teach the great unwashed masses what a woman is, etc. To bark and become uncivil only leads to becoming a caricature that is easily put on a shelf and dismissed out of hand.

As effednup as a lot folks are, they are still rational animals. I prefer to appeal to their rationality and dignity.

There are times the long knives have to come out to deal with uncivil, but once they are sliced up you must return to a civil discourse.

I have just lost all the respect I ever had for you......you are a Russian *****.

We need less beautiful people like you in Poland or anywhere near Poland , without courageous folk like the pisswit Sikorski we will do fine, we will avoid catastrophe. Poland is one of the bravest nations on the planet showing the rest of the world what the Slavic meaning of freedom really is. At the same time Poland can be one of the most cowardly slave-like nations in the world, another side of the Slavic nature - the troubled side - just depends which Sikorski is in charge, the current Pisswit or the legend Władysław.

@wslipach

I have to say that was an excellent post!

Man, your are necro posting something from 2011. Why?

Indeed. I am guilty of it too. It's unbelievable what this board can do to my nerves (and vocabulary!) sometimes! :D

Are you being serious? This on the level of: «Polish should had just surrendered in 1939 to the Germans and accept them as their overlords to let them do whatever they please» You are nuts!

Besides it was the Soviet Union who riled up to do a uprising via radio and Polish underground army attacked the Wehrmacht AND sides the red army on the frontline outside of Warsaw in various locations only to cheer with red army soldiers before AK soldiers being transferred to People's Army while officers shot or arrested at best by the NKVD.

It was the Soviet Union that stopped broadcasting about liberation and rising up against the Germans when the rising began. It was your «favorite country» that goaded the most to start the uprising...

Any more nonsense?

Not to mention that when Soviets talked about liberation of Poland it was within Marxist terms, of looting shops, killing shopowners and capitalists (big and small), aristocrats, beaurocrats and clergy to "liberate the opressed people"

That makes you nice and naive. Find something rational in BLM, Antifa, climate change, LGBT, black reparations, and men in women's spaces, and let me know what it is.

I didn't "bark". I asked for the definition of a woman. The scum knows what it is and that's why they won't say it because it includes "female" and thus excludes "males".

When a Supreme Court justice refuses to define a woman there is no room for "rationality and dignity". We are fast approaching the point where violence - both verbal and physical - is the only rational response to this mess.

Yes. The only other option was playing stupid games and being an emotional moron - something Poles are so good at.

So they chose to play stupid games. The result: 200,000 Poles dead, Warsaw destroyed, and the Soviets ended up in control anyway. Fvcking brilliant...

BTW, if the Warsaw Uprising was such a great idea, if you could rerun history, would you recommend having similar uprisings in Krakow, Lublin, Wroclaw, Kielce, Poznan, Torun, and Gdansk and another million dead Poles?

They are lost and all that and their rationality has been compromised for sure, but they still have the capacity for rationality because they are human. You can't change that, just as they can't change biological sex, etc.

Regardless, they aren't the primary audience. It's those who are indifferent and ambivalent that are the audience who need to hear the truth to win over their minds. Hopefully, the residual of addressing that audience is some in the groups you listed will be converted.

Here's a good article that sort of addresses what I'm saying. You may find her nice and naive, but the data shows we're losing because our tactics don't match the situation. All the barking only assuages ourselves. And, when it's all said and sone, who really cares how pissed off anyone is.

thefederalist.com/2024/04/22/the-pro-life-movement-has-a-storytelling-problem/

That sentence proves you are beyond repair.

This ..."their rationality has been compromised"...implies that those morons were rational in the past.

Passive tense suggests that becoming irrational was beyond their control and done by others and that these imbeciles are victims.

Hahaha.

@Novichok
Thank goodness you are not a decision maker, and have no sway of anything important. You are still blaming the victim, Poles were not able to decide their fate much. Yet you seem to behave like Poland had a standing army in Poland a collaboration government with Germany, which is pure fiction.

Whatever Germany decided on those lands, there was very little that could been done.

When somebody comes you with an option of working to death or be killed, you can't be taken seriously if you say everyone should chose working to death. Because they have cookies!! You are not making any sense with your arguments and come off more naive then a child

OK, I just made you a decision-maker.

It's July 1945. Place: Warsaw. The Red Army is close.

What is your decision, General Grunwald? Please assume that the Red Army can play chess better than anyone and that they are ahead of schedule.

Go ahead...

1.
2.
3.

Don't be shy...

Now, the bait...

Dear Red Army, I love you for liberating Auschwitz and the rest of Poland.

Evacuate as many civilians as possible out of Warsaw, stealthily in small numbers at a time. But in many places, have heavily armed strike teams where possible to delay or eliminate any reaction from the local garrison that is assigned to each street.

After red army has crushed Nazi Germany, prepare for liberation of Poland from the red army and especially NKVD.

Is that a good enough answer for you?

Aaand you keep lying.

No.

...while the Germans are sipping beer...

You are an idiot.

Hey, idiot, you didn't mention how your plan would prevent the USSR from controlling Poland and installing a Soviet-friendly ruling mob...Leftover AK fighting 300,000 Red Army troops?

Is every Polak a romantic moron?

Preferably


Well that's Rich

Hey, idiot, you didn't mention how your plan would prevent the USSR from controlling Poland and installing a Soviet-friendly ruling mob...Leftover AK fighting 300,000 Red Army troops?

Is every Polak a romantic moron?

It ain't nice talking about yourself that much. One could think that you are a very selfish person

Besides, what you write can only describe you as a kanalia there there is no longer any purpose to debate anything with you

It wasn`t liberation but another occupation. The Nazi occupation was replaced by the communist occupation. That is what Warsaw Rising heroes were fighting against.


In late 1970s they started publishing magazines called WW2 and described the events in chronological order. They reached Warsaw Rising in mid 1980s. Each magazine had a few dozen pages, with detailed explanations and many photos. I found a lot of interesting info on the Rising in that magazine.

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Only from today's point of view. In those days it was liberating. Novi is what he is, but his argument is not illogical..

I will take the Soviet occupation of Poland over the US liberation of KVIA every day of the week.
What a moron...