Warsaw Rising 1944 - National Disaster or Triumph of Spirit ?

You can use this argument for every conflict. For the Rus rising up against the Tatar yoke. For USSR defending against Nazi Germany. Noooooooo if you fight, you'll get hurt! Best just to let the other guy do what he wants!

Cuck.

Europe's founding myth, the original stand of Europeans against Asians, is the battle of Thermopylae. A stand that failed. Still worth standing, even in failure. Still influential on our identity.

It was a mistake.
In fact Polish pre-IIWW policy wasn't the best, not to say there were a good course of action but the one taken was the worst path it could have been.

Mistake which gave fruit later on.

Due to Warsaw Rising, Soviets delayed their offensive until January next year. Nearly 5 months!

Why was it important? In this time, US-Anglo allies liberated Western Europe and started conquering Germany proper. Until May 8, the unconditional surrender of the Third Reich, they captured half of it, which soon became the democratic German republic. Soviets captured the other half.

Can you imagine how difficult it would be for the West to win the Cold War with the USSR if they controlled whole Germany and turned it into Soviet German totalitarian state like they did in its Eastern zone of occupation???

Thanks to Warsaw`s sacrifice, it didn`t take place and eventually the evil state, USSR, was defeated and collapsed.

Salute to Warsaw insurgents!

Warsaw`s main crossroad today

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Sure, a safe heaven for Waffen SS, Gestapo and other NAzie fat cat to live in luxure and rise their childern that now they have their granpa attutude toward Poland.


Once it took over Poland we should have done our best to get GErman and FRance and as many as we could those stuck up Mofos. !Would serve them right!

I don't mind if you start a fight with a guy 10 times stronger than you and you get hurt.
I do mind if you start a fight with a guy who is 10 times stronger, I get hurt and then I am told that it was for my own good.

Got it or was it too complicated?

Each year, since I started the thread, I try to write sth new about the Rising. And each year I worry if I find a proper topic. Needlessly.

Do you know who Warsaw Robinsons were? They were residents of Warsaw who stayed in the ruined city against German orders. After crushing the armed resistance and the capitulation of the Rising on 2 October 1944, , Germans sent insurgents to POW camps while civilians had to leave the city which Germans started to destroy systematically - burning and blowing up remaining buildings. Some residents refused to comply and stayed in the ruins until the liberation by the Red Army in January 1945. It made 3.5 months of hiding.

read this extensive article
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robinson_Crusoes_of_Warsaw

[...]The terms "Robinson Crusoes" or "Robinsons" for the hideaways appeared almost immediately, and were popularized in many contemporary and later works, including memoirs, newspaper reports, and films, by both writers and the "Robinsons" themselves, the most famous of whom was the composer Władysław Szpilman, whose story was the subject of the films, The Warsaw Robinson (1950),[1] and The Pianist (2002).[...]

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I was interacting online a day or two ago with someone about the uprising and they were surprised that while official rememberances absolutely do have a solemn side they are usually not... tragic at all. I mentioned the 2019 outdoor concert in Warsaw with songs from the uprising (most of which were notsad, though some were of course).

It's also interesting that while veterans are very honored usually they don't talk so much about the uprising (the facts of which are well known) but mostly talk about the current situation in the country.

While the uprising itself was extremely tragic, the rememberance is often very much about survival and rebirth which is, I think overall more healthy than simply dwelling on grievances and horror.

The end result isn't what determines if it was worth to fight. If you fight for a good cause, its worth to fight, win or lose. That's the moral high ground.

Fighting the bully and losing still lets the bully know, there's no free lunch here. He'll have to fight for it. So he'll probably look elsewhere next time.

That`s good and normal. Tragedies take place but life goes on. If people thought only about sad matters, they would go crazy which could lead to even a bigger tragedy.

Those are about rememberance and that is. They tried to kill us but we are still here and kicking! If you read into it something else that on you..

Wow! Is it one of your golden thoughts?? :):):)

What do you mean? I think the Polish approach to remembering the Uprising is far healthier than a bunch of doom and gloom would be.

I mean that you are right about it I put it there in an odd manner... in my way ..

There was even a film and a comic story about them in communist times. I didn`t watch the film but read this comic.

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The film about Warsaw Robinsons is entitled The Invincible City, made in 1950.

Here it is. Sorry, no Polish subs. But you don`t need to watch the whole film. It is enough to watch some scenes. E.g,, Germans blowing up and burning the buildings which were still standing after 5 years of war. The scene starts at 1:04:48 with German officers talking about destroying the city completely.

Another memorable scene is at 32:22. Germans, before destroying the city, looted it. They took all commodities which were of value, e.g, furniture and musical instruments. Even bedsheets. Incredible. A German SS officer starts playing the piano that was moved out onto the street from a tenement house. During his performance, other Germans execute Jews captured in the ruins.

Do you remember that famous scene from The Pianist when Szpilman plays the piano for a German officer?

youtu.be/ea6d9Tn_Psg

I have already posted a few Rising songs, and this one too, but now it is with English subs.
Boys as tough as steel - the video also features photos from the time-

...you can slice with a butter knife.

Why do you Poles like saying crap like this? Does it really help to feel heroic?

Not so fast with those butter knives.:)_:):) Germans weren`t able to suppress the Rising for 63 days. They compared fighting in Warsaw to Stalingrad coz they encountered such stubborn resistance.

And to think that in the initial phase of the Uprising in many units only 1 in 20 insurgents had any firearm. :(

That should be a reason to be embarrassed, not proud.
What was the stated objective if all went as planned?

To win control over the city, push Germans out, and welcome entering Soviets as hosts of the already liberated capital.

Don't disrespect them..that too much, they fought, they died and they sung such songs, F-0FF!
Poles do not say such things.... Poles say kurwa what you problem ?

A few hundred pieces of firearms had been sent to partisans in Eastern Poland just before the Rising.
Also, a few decades after the war, during a renovation of an old tenement house, workers ran into a hiding place where a lot of sub machine guns had been stored. Those guns weren`t used in the Rising.


Common insurgents did their duty - they fought for the motherland like lions. It was the top commanders who flunked the job.

Not true. AK didn't want to welcome the Soviets.
AK's plan was to claim to be the legitimate Polish government to prevent the Soviets from installing their own and friendly to the USSR Polish government. Huge difference...

Unlike the US, that doesn't mind unfriendly governments everywhere.

Welcoming didn`t exclude claiming. Sorry, but you are wrong. :):):)

Welcoming should be preceded by an invitation, itinerary, and a statement of purpose both parties agree on.
My guess is that at this point, the Red Army couldn't care less about such niceties and would set its own timing and objectives - with or without an official welcoming ceremony...

In peace time. During a war, such silly formalities are needless. :):):)

You are right. Synchronization is key. We do this, and you do that...That I think was missing.
Then the Soviets would say that crossing the river in summer would be suicidal so let's wait till January when it's frozen. AK would say OK, and hit Germans as a Christman present.

By then I guess there would be no Germans to kill or be killed by so no books and movies...Not good...

You should know that the Soviet radio station in their Polish programs openly urged Warsawians to start a rising.

Of course, it did. Two birds, one stone...To the Soviets, bleeding Germans were as much fun as bleeding Poles. Can you blame them?