Poles should apologise to Ukrainians first

Not everyone. Right now only you. Sobaka! Tfu!

Don't be modest, right now only me is talking to you and expressing views you don't like. All the rest just shun you and avoid you like a plague.

I have the right to dislike views of a Russian propagandist.


Yes, because I am super learned, knowledgeable and intelligent. They prefer to learn from me in silence. While you have always been a lousy learner, that is why you are disrupting our lesson. But you won`t take over. I have dealt with bigger rascals than you. Ha!!!!

Bandera fanatic and sexual degenerate falsely claiming to be a Polish patriot has no rights!
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Typical delusion of Banderites half-wits.

Yes, we know, you Russian propagandist swine.

Which culminated in destroying Orthodox churches during the brutal polonisation campaign in 1930s.
wiez.pl/2018/07/13/rok-1938-na-wschodzie-polski-czyli-niezablizniona-rana/

The destruction of Orthodox churches in eastern Poland from May to July 1938 was all the more outrageous because it was carried out by authorities presenting themselves as Christian and defending a civilization that in many European countries at the time seemed to be in retreat or, as in the neighboring USSR, was doomed to destruction.

The authorities developed and then consistently carried out the demolition and liquidation of 91 Orthodox churches, 10 chapels, 26 houses of prayer. Three churches were transferred to the Catholic Church, and four churches were left only as morgues (according to official data from the Voivodeship Office in Lublin). All this under the catchy slogan of "reclaiming everything that was once Polish and Catholic in the eastern lands of the Lublin Voivodeship in the pre-partition times"

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Memories:
"On July 14, the church in Międzylesie (Bialski district) was demolished. People had already suspected this the day before, when the church in nearby Zahorowo was dismantled. People gathered, carried out and buried some of the more valuable things. Taking down the bells, bought a few months earlier, they rang the big bell three times to say goodbye. Those gathered began to cry and did not leave their church all night.
In the morning, at 7 o'clock, policemen and Polish workers arrived in the village on eight trucks. The police began to disperse the people with rubber batons and tightly surrounded the church. The workers began to tear off the roof, break and throw out icons and the iconostasis from the church. At about noon, they overturned a large bell, then they began to cut the walls of the church from top to bottom with saws and stretched them with ropes. At about three o'clock in the morning, having finished their Cain work, the police and workers left" - this is how the heated atmosphere of those days is reflected in the memories of one of the faithful, Jan Korowicki.

OK... on one side some churches were destroyed; on the other side mothers were tortured and murdered in front of their children (who were later bestially murdered too).

And we are to understand that it is the side who destroyed churches that should apologise first?

*yaaaaaawn*

You're a retard. But it doesn't even bother me anymore. The therapy worked! Money well spent :)

Yes. Nationalists of any sort are always both toxic and deluded.

Astounding Jon....you are usually very british too....what about your own nationalism? ;)

Since so-called nationalism is an emotional refuge of the weak, I'm fortunately free of it.

Being "very" something (though personally I'm not) isn't 'nationalism'.

So much toxicity in this thread, and little positivity about creating a wholesome culture.

There is no better example of this than zionism, which has its origins in Central and Eastern Europe rather than being a grassroots movement in Palestine which it occupies today. Thanks for agreeing


He's a zionist like you.

So you waited for six months to comment on this. lol!
I disagree, first off There needs to be a definition of what nationalism is and how it differs from patriotism or a citizen's duty to uphold his country - that is accepted according to the board.
Secondly, even if there is one there are several degrees of nationalism.
Last but not least nationalism can be assessed only on a one-to-one basis as each nation has a different nationalism and everything that comes with it.
It is not communism or some other leftist ideology that is based on the same premise and originates from the same source.
The issue here is that commies confuse nationalism with fascism which is not the same.
Fascism is a cousin of communism.
German imperialism and nationalism were nasty but it wasn't near the level of Nazim i.e. their take on fascism. Which was different than Italian fascism to be sure.
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Or even just saw it.

The difference between 'nationalism' and a normal liking for one's culture is that the former is a euphemism for something very unpleasant, the politics of exclusion on arbitrary grounds.

You conveniently skipped the time line of events. I wonder why??? Trying to be manipulative a little??? :):):)

Let me remind you that first the Polish nation oppressed the Ukrainian nation for centuries and only at the very end of our cohabitation furious Ukrainians retaliated in the most horrible way.


Yes! Kneel down together with Iron and beg for forgiveness. Only then you can demand anything from Ukrainians!


I am really glad coz we need you in good mental health. :):):)

Isn't that what life is about? Choices, exclusions, and consequences.
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In other words, you are the most vile apologist for ethnic cleansing. Morally rotten vile scum that you are it doesn't surprise me at all.

OK, the churches were destroyed first. So what?


What Polish nation? Polish peasants oppressed Ukrainian peasants? Because overwhelming majority of victims in Kresy were ordinary Poles, farmers and their families, slaughtered by their Ukrainian neighbours in the 20th century because of what? Wiśniowiecki and Chmielnicki?


You can't oppress something that doesn't exist. Ukrainians as a nation in modern sense are a 20th (OK, maybe 19th) century invention.


... and commited genocide that they deny. That's the difference, you see - Poles know about the destruction of orthodox churches and Piłsudski's betrayal of Petlura, nobody denies that. Ukrainians, on the other hand, refuse to acknowledge not only genocide but even the ethnic cleansing, and they do exactly what you do - justify horrible murderous atrocities with those vague "centuries of oppression".

Ireland was oppressed by England for 800 years - would it be OK for the Irish to mass murder English women and children in the middle of the 20th century for that? Finland was under Swedish occupation for 700 years, but somehow Finnish peasants didn't go on a rampage slaughtering their Swedish neighbours.


What for? Ukrainians are not going to apologise for something they even refuse to acknowledge anyway. That's why your whole Let's-Apologise-First crusade is nonsensical.


Unfortunately, it looks like he is. Justifying Ukrainians commiting genocide on their neighbours with whom they lived and worked by something that Polish ruling authorities did.

And this is pure Polish nationalism which demands foreign nations like Germans, Russians, Ukrainians and others to apologise and compensate for their crimes against Poles and Polesses through history but at the same time such nationalists refuse to accept the responsibility for Polish crimes.
Isn`t it an amaSSing attitude???

Of course, I feel morally obliged to combat such attitudes. In the name of justice and decency!!!


If this was true, you can`t blame Germans and Russians for oppressing Poles/Polesses during partitions when independent Poland didn`t exist. :):):)


No, they don`t. And if a few do, they push it to the back of their minds. Ha!
Such righteous Poles like me are huge minority.
But I won`t stop educating you.

PF Poles should apologize to PF Russians for being rude azholes.

PF Russians have class and almost unlimited patience so they didn't go where Russia-hating Polaks congregate - including insults and idiotic spellings.

To be fair, there are exceptions to the above comment...Not all Poles are morons. Just enough to notice...

You keep forgetting what I told you before: I no longer expect any apology from Ukrainians and, frankly, I don't give a sh*t about their apology either.

All I want is for murdered victims to be exhumated and given proper burial. A bare minimum that should be asked of any civilised country. Unfortunately, if the exhumations were allowed, the scale of atrocities would come to light and the horrible way in which the victims died would become evident for everyone to see. That's why I don't expect the barbarians to ever allow full exhumations.

Yes, you are a nice exception together with Kania. :):):)


Apologise to Ukrainians and let`s see what happens.


That`s compensation which I already mentioned. You expect compensation from Ukrainians without apologising first??? You are really out of your mind, you abhorrent glorifier of Polish brutal colonialism!

...and the Poland-Ukraine love affair come to an abrupt end?

I certainly will. As soon as hell freezes and pigs start to fly.


More importantly, what might happen is that the self-image of Ukrainians as a noble, never aggressive, only-defending-themselves, peaceful nation would burst like a baloon. After all, it wasn't only OUN-UPA to be blamed, it was also ordinary Ukrainians - neighbours of the murdered Poles - who commited the atrocities.

Hey, that`s exactly how Poles like you prefer to see themselves!!! Can`t you understand your views are a laughing stock in Ukraine and other countries colonised by Poles in the past???

I have been fighting against such sick attitudes all my life.


Exactly. Like ordinary Poles and Polesses who once took advantage of the Holocaust and murdered Jews for money or out of pure hate during WW2.

...and then, suddenly, they morphed into peace-loving, "freedom and democracy" adoring cuddly, fluffy bears...

Kania does. Ukrainian Foreign Minister Kuleba rejected Polish demands to examine the Volhyn massacre issue during his recent visit to Poland.

This thread contains a lot of useless off topic posts, while my primary intention was to focus on the history of Polish Ukrainian relations in order to explain why Poland should apologise to Ukraine for centuries of colonisation and polonisation.
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So far I have managed to discuss the following:

post 20, 29 - Polish King`s conquest of Rus territory, including the capture of Kyiv in 11th cent.

post 33,34,125 - Polish further expansion onto Rus territory through the agency of the Duchy of Lithuania - 12-13th cent.

post 128 - Polish King`s annexation of Western Rus with Lviv in 14th cent

post 176, 190 - the first attempt of the Ukrainian people led by Cossacks to gain freedom from Poland in 17th cent. The rebellion was suppressed.

you should apologize for being an ass and for gaslighting people with BS fake history.

That`s an attitude cherished not only by nationalist maniacs like Ironside but also by conservative Russophiles like Kania and millions of normal Poles/Polesses who suffer from Polish victim mentality syndrome. It means they only remember crimes and wrongdoing against the Polish nation by others, while at the same time they refuse to acknowledge the responsibility for Polish crimes. on others
Aren`t such Poles/ Polesses amaSSing???

nonsense - Lithuania haven't conquered Rus principalities with a selfless idea to grant them to Poland - the fact that the territories became part of the Polish crown is much later history (Polish-Lithuanian Union of Lublin)