Poles should apologise to Ukrainians first

Yes, I am a Christian but I am not a saint; and it would take a saint to apologise first after what those beasts did.

They were beasts during the WW2 and shortly after.
While Poles had been beasts for centuries. Math is simple in this case.

The Poles though were often seen more as accomplices to brutality rather than
methodical instigators of such crimes!

Had there been no German-sponsored Holocaust, Jedwabne and Kielce would never have
happened, as there would have been no leader to follow. Those Polish participants were
mimicking the Nazis, yet without that role model, I don't believe the Polish government would have
planned such an atrocity out of the badness of their hearts.

This is why it angers me so to read about "Polish Concentration Camps".

Accomplices or instigators - I suppose victims didn`t care about such differences.


Partly yes, and partly were mimicking themselves from previous years. I mean burning Ukrainian churches before the war. I will develop that subject later, though.

By the way from the geopolitical view there is no diffrence if the old Polish land of Lwow belongs to Poland or to Ukrainie. On the other hand it would add more strategical dept to ~Poland.


I guess you are a moron because you have it in your DNA, not for any other reson/

for you and your ilk.

Thanks, but I never watch vids by azholes.


When I told you I would only laugh at you, you were gravely annoyed. But I keep my word. :):):)

Sure, I'm sorry we didn't subjugate and colonize properly thus depriving you of the fruits of civilization but letting you roam free due to a naive notion that human beings can't be deprived of the choice and should be granted a lot of freedom. You proved us wrong by F up yourselves and us with a misused understanding of what freedom is and here we are once again yet you learned nothing.

I do apologize for that.

:D

Iron, you savage! It is still a bit too early for that but you are my strong favourite for the January Poster of the Month award. *thumbs up*

Yes, Poles were lousy colonisers. We didn`t build too many roads or industry. We mainly developed primitive forms of agriculture and forced Rus peasants to toil in the fields. For trade and finance Poles needed Jews and Armenians who made substantial minorities in cities which Poles claimed as Polish but in fact they weren`t fully Polish coz a lot of ethnicities contributed to their development.

The only thing we successfully transfered was European culture. But that wasn`t enough and eventually Ukrainians kicked us out of their lands.

And now Poles say that Ukrainians have to apologise first. Can you imagine that brazen impudence?????

Here is more about Chmielnicky`s rebellion.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khmelnytsky_Uprising

The uprising has a symbolic meaning in the history of Ukraine's relationship with Poland and Russia. It ended the Polish Catholic szlachta′s domination over the Ukrainian Orthodox population; at the same time, it led to the eventual incorporation of eastern Ukraine into the Tsardom of Russia initiated by the 1654 Pereiaslav Agreement, whereby the Cossacks would swear allegiance to the tsar while retaining a wide degree of autonomy.

What a pity blind Poles didn`t accept Cossacks as the third force ruling in the Commonwealth. We would have become a real superpower for centuries.

Instead, as I wrote, Poles shared Ukraine with Russians. There were more rebellions of peasant Ukrainians in the coming decades. Sometimes Polish troops cooperated with Russian soldiers in suppressing them.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paliy_uprising

Together with a number of other Cossack polkovnyks, Paliy and his rebels captured Bila Tserkva, Fastiv, Nemirov and a few other towns. Rebellious Cossacks massacred their traditional enemies - Polish szlachta, Catholic priests and Jews - in the area they controlled. On October 17, 1702 Paliy and his Cossacks were defeated by the Polish army under hetman Adam Mikołaj Sieniawski near the town of Berdychiv and later at Nemirov and at Webricze in February 1703. Paliy's last stand was at Bila Tserkva.

The cover for the strategic game Cossacks 3 : a Cossack on the left, Polish winged rider on he right

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Yes, we should have shaved any damn upstart raising his head with the shoulder level, but nah that would be messy and not humanistic enough and God forgives not fair for those misguided,

I already apologised for that pawian.

That`s a lie. Poles suppressed all Cossack risings with staunch brutality. And Cossacks paid with the same coin.

.

Geez you are a bum, you won't let people apologize properly. Do you have some mental issues with compulsion or whatnot? A mild Down syndrome maybe? You need to look for a cure man!

Any other arguments based on historical context??? :):):)

So far, nobody questioned my arguments. Which means they are correct.


See how Cossacks fought against Poles. They mainly used infantry armed with mini muskets which were quite efficient. As there were thousands Cossacks in their army, the firepower could be devastating. Besides, they used tabor wagons for cover.

When will you make Putin your fave poster???? Do not limit yourself to months, let it be a year or a decade. :):):)

How can one question an argument, when the definition for one of the main subjects is not correct?

What the hell is a Cossack?

In Russia we have many more "Cossacks" than they have in all of Ukraine and Poland combined. We had Don Cossacks, Kuban Cossacks, Terek Cossacks, Yaik Cossacks, and a dozen other flavors.

Today they enjoy dressing up like clowns, playing with sabers, and talking at length about defending "traditional values". Of course, I would prefer that they instead defend the "traditional value" of working for a living.

Open Wikipedia and see what a Cossack is. Where the word comes from. How they understood themselves. What results DNA tests have yielded in modern times.

You will see that a Cossack is an amorphous thing. Criminals, runaway serfs, Tatar outcasts, bankrupted nobles, and everyone in between.

One day in the future, historians will explain how this forum morphed into a pawian playground.
He is laughing his ass off right this very minute and you idiots are feeding this super troll...day in, day out..

Yes. But they grew in strength so much that main powers in the area had to take them into account. And they survived and their heritage has been kept till today.


They were humorous guys. See them writing an insulting letter to the Ottoman sultan.

Exactly!!! Because I am from Poland! And Norman Davies, British historian, wrote the book about Poland`s history which I read several times:
God`s Playground!!!
hahahahaha

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See it in two red and white volumes centrally located on the shelf above my desk. Guys and guysses, I have read this and hundreds other history books since I learnt to read. You have no chance against me. Kneel down when you discuss Poland`s history with Professor Pawian.

Novi!
Now I am making it Goddess` Playground!!!! hahahaha

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A bit chaotic but there are some rather good books there. :)


If only you could read them with understanding, that would be absolutely brilliant.


Belwederski? ;)

Yes, brilliant.
However, are you already on your knees while talking history with me??? You can also go on all four.


Pawianski!

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Let's spare PF readers your inappropriate fantasies, shall we? :)

The only inappropriate thing here is your knowledge of history of Poland. Ha!! Poles were colonising Ukraine for centuries and eventually Ukrainians said No more. Just like they are saying it to Russian colonisers.

How come you haven't learned anything?

Let me ask again - do you have any arguments based on historical matters instead of personal remarks???

So far, nobody has been able to abolish my argument about Polish colonisation of Ukraine. The conclusion resulting from it is that Poles should apologise first coz it was them who started the conflict as first.

Isn`t it simple and clear???

What personal remarks?
I just wonder if you read so many historical books how come you learned nothing at all? Your take on Poland's history is all wrong, it is just some Marxist take copied from the Western progressive narrative.

They had colonies and they spread by conquest so Poland must have done it too, all the data to the contrary goes into a bin and we have a pawian self-proclaimed wise man staying that - so it must be true.

No, it is not, you are a pitiful fool who knows nothing and understands even less.
That is an objective assessment, not a personal remark, as I don't care about you as a person enough to make such remarks. Clear?

Wait. Wait till you get to Ukrainians. We see that right these days NATO, EU, awakened banderists, papacy and Zelenski tries to create Ukrainian nation. To finish the process. But its like carrot. Always escape to them. Even when they do it there won`t be Ukraine and subjects of experiment would get new suggestions who they are. As Freddy said, show must go on.

Very good. Thank you for admitting it. So, Poles have a reason to apologise but you reject that idea.

Let`s use your logic now - during WW2, people killed each other en masse. Bad luck but that`s what happens during a war. Normal, isn`t it?? So, it was also a standard behaviour of Ukrainians to kill thousands of Poles occupying Ukraine. War is war and its traditions of killing enemies must be respected.

This means you suggest that Poles wrongly expect any apology or atonement from Ukrainians. What for if they did sth standard?

Oooh. Most interesting.

I will get this book.

I join Ironside and Kania, in asking you - why are you still so bad at history if you read so much?

I respect that you were consistent in condemning the Ukrainian invasion, and the bombing of Gaza equally. This was a little bit of a surprise. It tells me, that maybe you are not an empty demagogue.

However, I still disagree with 99% of the things you say.