Poles should apologise to Ukrainians first

Indeed. I hope the souls of people bestially murdered in Volyn will forgive us. :( *let's pray for that*

I know you are connected by blood to this tragedy - so for you it is different. However, I don't accept this framework personally.

I don't think the dead judge you for extending out a hand of assistance. The dead judge you for not being firmer in using your current position of extreme leverage vis a vis the Ukrainians, to extract from them a recognition of the terrible crimes committed in the past.

No people is bad in and of itself. But the current government in Ukraine, represents a force that is antithetical to the very ideas of Polishness and Russiannness. This is why we should work together to correct this distressing aberration.

That suddenly they are changing the rules while the game is still going. It is unfair and Ukrainians are rightly disappointed.

Na ja....then russian course of action was the worst way to go about it. Every people with warm blood running through its veins closes the ranks, no matter how deep the trenches between the fractions might be, when attacked a people usually forgets about all divisions and need for reforms and concentrates on unification and defense.

If Russia wanted to help cementing Selensky as ruler they only had to invade...not to mention cementing future ukrainian western orientiation (EU...NATO...)

Nothing. I only support Ukraine. As for today, Poland is safe in the EU and NATO. It is Ukraine which is in desperate need for help.

But everything can change and one day Poland might be deprived of its safety due to various factors. Remember, nothing is given for ever. You need to work on it all the time.

Wise guys said: there won`t be independent Poland when Ukraine is controlled by Russia. That is why they need our help without demanding silly gratitude.


Yes, furry one. hahahaha Some people call me yeti when they see me undressed.

This entire nonsensical thread, that annoyed many a good Polish patriots, stems not only from ostensible lack of common human decency regarding one of the worst and most bestial atrocities in planet Earth's history but mainly from the total lack of understanding of Eastern politics.

In the East there is no Pawian-like approach of "somebody has to be wiser", somebody has to "let go". If you let go, then in the eyes of Kiev you show weakness. Poland has shown weakness towards Ukraine for the last 30 years because we thought they are like us. They aren't.

If, as the OP proposes, instead of being assertive towards the neo-banderist attitude and elements present in the current Ukrainian politics, we apologized to them first for Bolesław Chrobry, medieval siege engines and whatnot, we would show the ultimate sign of weakness and - for the lack of good English word - frajerstwo. Pawian-like kindhearted fools would expect that Kiev would fall into our arms after that, apologise for Volyn and allow the exhumation of victims. Everyone is entitled to be a fool, we live in a free country, but such people should keep away from foreign politics.


It is hardly possible in the current circumstances, isn't it? We should, however, be more flexible in our foreign policies, diplomacy and approach towards possible future peace agreement and the conditions thereof. Much more flexible.

Yes, I also read this article on today`s Onet. :):):) But one publicist`s opinion is just his personal opinion and needn`t be worth quoting. :):)


Nope. I only demand justice. As a teacher, I have always strived to be fair towards students. As a father, fair to my kids. Why should Ukrainians apologise first if their crimes took place during WW2 while Polish crimes on Ukrainians/Ruthenians had occured for several centuries, including brutal polonisation before WW2???

Sticking to chronology, it is Poles who should apologise first That`s basic fundamental fairness.

That`s what this thread is for - to show the blind who call themselves Polish patriots what stinking hypocrites they are. You are Polish azholes troubled with the Polish victim syndrome, not patriots.

Opinions may be, and often are, irrelevant. However, the observation (confirmed by over 30 years of experience in mutual relations) about Kiev's perception of Polish weakness is quite accurate and we should finally draw proper conclusions from it.


Now, that was uncalled for and really hurt my feelings.

You want to draw your silly conclusions while Ukrainians are fighting against our greatest enemy?? It`s mad.


Oh, my Goddess! This eternal Polish victim syndrome!!
You need to start thinking like a true patriot, not eternal Polish victim azhole. Ukraine needs all our help now. There will be time for arguments after the war.

Then they should go on their knees and beg for it/ or if they are so mighty pay in in gold for everything including transit across our country.

WE don't own them anything!!!


shut up stupid, you are yapping about apologising all the time. What is wrong with you? freak!
You can't even keep up!

It's not weakness if we have the ultimate power, veto on their ascension to the EU ie material prosperity. Anyway your holier than thou perpetually wounded manner is starting to grate, you are not the only one on this forum who lost ancestors in the polish genocide. We all want to solve the problems and heal the pain that arisen from this horrible event.

I didn`t start it, Kania and other Polish victim syndrome victims did. I am only trying to make them aware of their hypocrisy.

You are lying like a rabid dog now - I said on several occasions that I don't give a flying f*ck about Ukrainian apologies; all I want is for the genocidal sickf*cks to just allow the exhumation and proper burial of the victims, like any civilised country would. Unfortunately the barbarians don't allow even that. F*ck them.

400 tanks, 200 Rosomak afvs, shitl*ds of other vehicles, artillery, attack choppers, fighter planes, modern drones, manpads, train after train loaded with ammo, fuel and f*ck knows what else. They would be speaking Russian in Kiev long time ago without our help. Plus, millions of refugees with health care, education, child benefits etc. granted and the bastards don't even allow the burial of our dead? Amasing.

P.S. I am enjoying my holidays. Posting occasionally to counter Pawian's rabid lies. :)

Yes, they are fighting also for us. I agree.

However, not everybody in Poland would seem to agree. Football supporters - a very patriotic element would seem to be of a different opinion...

...and it's not only in Wrocław that you see banners like that. These folks are as patriotic as it gets, the salt of Polish earth. Interesting, isn't it?

The salt of the earth.

No they don't!
They just happned to be in a way, They fight for their own resons, their fight might in our interest somewhat but that is not to say they do it for us.

Words matters.

You are correct, again.

On the list of beneficiaries, if Ukraine is 100, Poland is -50. To Poland, this war is a disaster - both financial and ethnic.

That is why saner Poles are *****ed off about the Ukranization of Poland.

People lose track of what you say coz you are playing infantile games with new identities in the forum. Blame yourself, baran, for any confusion. That`s your fault. Ha!


Yes, you call Ukrainians barbarians, while I say it about Russians. You openly admitted several times, and proudly, that you are a Russophile. Everything what you say about Ukrainians is suspicious coz you are biased negatively towards them and positively towards Russia.

Never mind. Stay a Russophile if you like it so much. While I am an incorrigible Ukrainophile - always have been.
Can you see that through this clash of two different sentiments we have achieved a perfect balance in nature ??? Ha! Amasing!

That is why you can`t convince me that I am wrong on the issue of apologising. It is Poles` duty to apologise first and basta!

Really? Even when Ukraine was inside the USSR, Pawian was already a Ukrainophile? Pray tell us, what attractive aspect of Ukrainianness sparked this love in your heart?

Surely you could - as a self-professed Ukrainophile - tell us about your favorite Ukrainian composers, authors, painters, and scientists? What is your favorite Ukrainian play? Some Ukrainian actress, drove you mad in your youth?

Maybe you are more scientifically inclined, and have been following the development of Ukrainian science throughout your life? Tell us about a Ukrainian Nobel Prize winner, to which you really look up to?

Nope, I meant the times since the day Ukraine declared independence and Poland was the first country which acknowledged it. After all, it is over 30 years - half of my life.

And Polish elites at the time didn`t demand any apologies from Ukrainians coz they were aware of historic events which were shaping new Europe and moved the Russian threal away from Poland. Poles who don`t get such simple matters today are imbeciles. E.g, Ironside.


Don`t be silly. Check the title of the thread.

I wonder if Tusk gov will extend the hand to Ukrainians first. Or will they arrange reciprocal apologies for each other?

No... not this bloody thread... why did you have to resurrect it, Pawian? :-/ It brings bad memories...

There must be always balance in nature. You praise our imperialist Russians and make them posters of the month.
I do the same for Ukrainians.

Isn`t it fair and simple???
Say it is fair. If you don`t, posters might think you are biased. :):):)

We have no Ukrainian posters and this thread is the worst. :(

I'm off for the time being.

It doesn`t matter. The balance in nature is decided between Poles, now - me and you. Ha!!! :):):):


Come on!! Stand up and fight, do kurwy nędzy!!!! hahahaha

OK, this unnatural cease-fire lasted too long already. Enough of this.

I have to recompose myself after seeing this thread again but I will be back to tackle all the pro-banderist nonsense.

Oh, I almost forgot:

@pawian

Ty konusie, ty. :)

So,I already mentioned that Poles were slowly colonising Rus lands. How? In two ways - either through Polish settlers who moved eastward. or through local Rus aristocrats and gentry who adopted Polish language, culture and catholicism and became fully polonised.

It worked fine during the 16th century.

In the 17th century, common Ruthenians rebelled. They were led by Cossacks, a new force which emerged in southern regions of today`s Ukraine. They grew in strength so much that they demanded new special priviliges from the Polish king. Polish elites said one big :NO. So cossacks started a rising which devastated not only Ukraine but also part of Poland proper. The conflict was very brutal - both sides had no mercy on each other.

In the meantime, Cossacks asked Russians for help. And they got it. Another Polish Muscovy war started over the control of Eastern territories.

After peace talks, Ukraine was eventually divided between Muscovy and Polish Lithuanian Commonwealth. Russians took the Eastern part while Poles kept the Western. Check the map:

• 
  6143502927addKopio.jpg
  

Konusje????


What???? You want to destroy our holy alliance??? You shamelessly promote stinking Russian imperialists and when I protest you are breaking relations with decent patriotic Pole coz I prefer Ukrainians???? Shame on you. Ha!!!

I got you now.

For the sake of the alliance I am willing to agree that Poland should apologise to Ukrainians first, as you propose.

I have only two preliminary conditions:

1. That hell freezes.
2. That pigs start to fly.

You will eat your tongue when Poles do it first. Coz this is the Polish tradition.
Besides, aren`t you Christian???? :):):)

Who has first claim on the soul - Christ or Mother Nature?