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Poland in a Slavic Union/Alliance/Federation?


rock - | 460
29 Dec 2010  #271
Many many, rock. Pages in fact.

I read some of them now.

Yusuf Ercin Sonmez, he's your man

Ok, he is Turkish but this does not mean that he is working for Turkish government.

I really do not understand why you try to find at least one bad image (very spesific one)about Turks when you are trying to say some good things. It is very funny.lol

If you want me appreciate your knowledge and this is the stimulus for mentioning him ok I appreciate you. lol

You can not find anybody in Turkey who will support his acts.

I hope he will be punished soon. That's all.
Seanus 15 | 19,706
29 Dec 2010  #272
I like to give a rounded perspective ;) His being Turkish may have been incidental as I don't imagine Turks to be the closest friends of Albanians (Crow may disagree). I only wanted to make the point that there may still be sinister intentions but I don't imagine he was sent by the Turkish govt either.

Ever been to Poland, rock? Plenty Turks in business here and most Poles seem to be indifferent. Better than being hostile :)
Natasa 1 | 580
29 Dec 2010  #273
I wonder when the Serbs will learn their lesson...

You got it all wrong, we are giving lessons ;)

Woda, ziemia, szczęścia, światło, chwała, miężczyzna, kobieta, trzymać?

Voda, zemlja, sreća, svetlo, slava, the others are more similar to Russian, mušćina (man?)..

there is much machoism in the Balkans

Rumors :))
rock - | 460
29 Dec 2010  #274
Bosniaks and Albanians are our friends. They love and respect Turks.

I felt at home when I visited Bosnia 2 years ago. Just one funny example; I and my wife rented a car in Sarajevo and when travelling to Travnik a Bosniak policeman stopped me because of high speed. He asked me where I am from ? When I said Turkey he looked at me smiled and say '' haydi haydi '' which is same in Turkish and let us go without a fine.

We Turks are always sensitive to the problems of Bosniaks and Albanians. But this is not offensive. As muslim nations in Europe, they have right to live in peace.

Turks will be glad if Bosniaks, Croats, Serbs, Macedonaians, Kosovans have good relations and Turkey is trying to create peace among these nations especially for the last 3 years very actively.

We know that Serbs are also very close to us. We do not seperate them from Bosniaks unless they do not try to destroy them.

Today smart Serbs are also aware of the importance of good relations in the region including relations with Turkey.

emg.rs/en/news/serbia/127062.html
Crow 137 | 7,595
29 Dec 2010  #275
Your Turkish islamists theory is a bullshit.

really?

>>>

IHH: From the war in Bosnia to the Gaza Flotilla

The main organizer and funder of the Gaza Flotilla, the Turkish NGO Insani Yardim Vakfi (IHH), is portraying itself as a "Humanitarian Relief Foundation", but it is better known in Bosnia for its connections to terrorism.

Several documents confirm the nexus between the Turkish IHH and foreign Muslim fighters in Bosnia during the war.

Turkish charity defends actions
June 06, 2010|Jeffrey Fleishman, Los Angeles Times

A 2006 paper published by the Danish Institute for International Studies said the IHH had used its vast charitable network to aid militant causes in the 1990s, including supplying fighters to Bosnia-Herzegovina and Chechnya. Such support was common among Muslim countries and Islamist organizations that shipped aid and arms to defend Muslims in ethnic wars.

Israel concerned over Turkey's role in Bosnia and Herzegovina
Friday, 20 August 2010 08:24

Israel is concerned about Turkey's growing engagement in Bosnia and Herzegovina, claiming Turkey's role in the Balkans may cause serious problems for the ethnically split Balkan country, the prime minister the Republika Srpska has said.

Bosnian Serb leader condemns Turkey's activities in Bosnia
Monday, August 16, 2010; SARAJEVO - The Associated Press

Bosnian Serb leader Milorad Dodik accused Turkey on Monday of interfering in Bosnia's internal political affairs and Ankara of acting in favor of Bosnian Muslims.

"We resent the fact that Turkey wants a unified and centralized Bosnia, favoring only one of the peoples" living in the country, Dodik told Bosnian state radio from Israel, following talks with Israeli Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman.

I see the detrimental effect of the Ottoman Empire but modern Turkey doesn't seem to have axes to grind with Serbia. They wouldn't threaten any Slavic alliance IMHO.

my friend. Let us not go that far. We speak here about Turkey as of historical Slavic enemy, not about Turkey as enemy of some eventual future Slavic Unity. i suppose, Turks can`t be that suicidal to move again global Slavic Unity. At least not openly. Not for sure. They would calculate and they may also profit from the era of peace that would occur after Slavic Unity appear on political map of Europe and world.
George8600 10 | 637
29 Dec 2010  #276
Oh.... they thought of themselves as Goths, Aryans (historical reasons), Persians....

lol just like the Greeks think they're pure descendants of Plato, Socrates, and Sophocles. Not to mention the Macedonians who think they're pure descendants of Alexander the Great and his armies, or the Serbs who think they were a medieval superpower; or the Turks who think they actually have ancient history with all those Greco-Macedonian monuments on their land. Oh the joys of Balkan delusionment.

I am sure that Europeans are more religious than Turks.

Not really....in fact I am 100% positive that it's the other way around. Of course maybe the Balkans are just as religious as the Turks ;-)

Turkey welcomed them.

Yes just like every other allied nation, however modern Israeli tensions between them are tense. Which is why we ought not confuse Israeli nationalism with the foundations of religious Jews.

Bosniaks and Albanians are our friends. They love and respect Turks.

Why not say the same about Greeks? I respect Turks, and on the contrary I have met Albanians who hate Turks. An individualist point of yours is too generalized. It's like me saying all Poles love Russians because I met a couple who do.

We know that Serbs are also very close to us. We do not seperate them from Bosniaks unless they do not try to destroy them.

lol, last time I checked, the Serbs and the Greeks had a very close "brotherhood". I have met Serbs who liked me purely because I was half Greek. I honestly have no idea why, but they say it's something common in the religion and history...go figure @_@ But then again I have heard people say Greeks and Turks are very close in commonality.

Today smart Serbs

SMART serbs is where nationalism dies....good riddance.
rock - | 460
29 Dec 2010  #277
Crow,

Do you know that Israel killed 9 armless people in the ship trying to reach Gaza for humanitarian aid ?

After that, worldwide effective Jewish lobby who has got all media powers tried to hide her deathful mistake by making these people terrorists.

And you naive Serb believed this propaganda of course.

First you have to criticise killing of innocent humans by Israel. Do I want to much from you ? I suppose so.

These people in the ships were mostly islamists but they were not terorists.

On the other hand, I think Slavic union opinion is an utopic dream.

But I do not think that Turkey will work against it especially

1- if Turkey can not enter EU .
2- If Russia does not try to prevent a Turkic union includes Turkey,Azarbaycan, Uzbekhistan, Turkmenistan, Kazakhistan and Kırghızistan.
southern 75 | 7,097
29 Dec 2010  #278
I have met Serbs who liked me purely because I was half Greek. I honestly have no idea why

Well,there has never happened a war between Greeks and Serbs in the last 1400 years,so this may mean sth.Serbs are our eternal allies and we were the only ones except the Russians to support them during the war.
Natasa 1 | 580
29 Dec 2010  #279
I think I'm more Greek than George.
Using any criteria.
George is not Greek, George is just confused.
OP Lodz_The_Boat 32 | 1,535
29 Dec 2010  #280
Turkic union includes Turkey,Azarbaycan, Uzbekhistan, Turkmenistan, Kazakhistan and Kırghızistan.

If its constructive ... and helps to the development of these poorer nations ... you should go ahead for it ... and everyone else should help.

if Turkey can not enter EU .

I am not in favor or against ... I am in favor of a greater union than just EU.

Crow

We need to be a little more liberal in terms of accepting the world as it is ... and how changes affect our region too.
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,731
29 Dec 2010  #281
I am not in favor or against ... I am in favor of a greater union than just EU.

A slavic alliance plus Turkey?

Heh:)
southern 75 | 7,097
29 Dec 2010  #282
A turkic union with Turkey in as it stands today will just be an imperialist turkish utopia for Turkey to control the natural resources of other nations and expand influence.Thus it is heavilly opposed by Turkmenistan,Azerbajdzan etc.
OP Lodz_The_Boat 32 | 1,535
29 Dec 2010  #283
A slavic alliance plus Turkey?

I mean friends ... I think no one would deny that it is a privilege to be friend with progressive, friendly, and respectable Germans too provided they have honesty and good sentiments to offer.

Being enemies with people for petty reasons is not my intention, with Slavic Union or anything similar I would expect a club of progressive people ... who can be members in another club with Germans and Turks aswell. The only purpose is trying to come up with something that benefits a few more people than just ourselves ... and we can all rise as together as success stories.
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,731
29 Dec 2010  #284
Being enemies with people for petty reasons is not my intention, with Slavic Union or anything similar I would expect a club of progressive people ... who can be members in another club with Germans and Turks aswell.

You can do that much more easily inside the EU...the framework is already there with more slavic countries queuing up to become members.
It's only natural when neighbours with shared interests work together...THAT is the future.

But a "slavic union" build on ethnic heritage is not only racist but won't have a mouse snots chance in hell...as most Slavs are not even interested.

You will find only supporters with "Slavija"-nutters like Crowie...who really don't have progressivity, friendship or peace in mind (as you very well know).
OP Lodz_The_Boat 32 | 1,535
29 Dec 2010  #285
You can do that muche more easily inside the EU.

But EU is not a fare club is it? ... Think of it for a moment keeping your German Helmet down. Is it exactly fare?

If EU could be more fare, I would not want to think any other way. Plus, I personal (please note) feel that EU is a possibility but the future lays in a more united group of countries with much more equality. Someplace where USA, Canada, South African, Australia, NZ, India, China and Japan can also come in as a member.

who really don't have progressivity, friendship or peace in mind (as you very well know).

I think Crow is just hurt. All the time I've known him, he suddenly turns soft without any alarm. He turns soft even for his Muja's or his Albanian so called enemies. But he is just hurt. He can be changed right? ... Why turn away from your own brothers just because they have turned their back on prosperity through friendship for the time being?
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,731
29 Dec 2010  #286
But EU is not a fare club is it? ... Think of it for a moment keeping your German Helmet down. Is it exactly fare?

"fare"? Do you mean fair?

Take Poland for example...is it fair to profit massively from the EU-feeding through? To be able to travel freely across Europe, working?
Do you think it's fair for the PIIGS being able to hold on the EU to get help in the billions?

Most of it financed by the german helmets!

What exactly is not fair?

. Plus, I personal (please note) feel that EU is a possibility but the future lays in a more united group of countries with much more equality.

Why do you think the EU puts so much money and investments into the poor newbies?
Of course to bring them up to standards...democratically and economically.

Who will pay the bill in your slavic union???

Someplace where USA, Canada, South African, Australia, NZ, India, China and Japan can also come in as a member.

Well...that is hardly a "slavic union" anymore, isn't it! Changed your mind already Lodz?

But he is just hurt. He can be changed right? ... Why turn away from your own brothers just because they have turned their back on prosperity through friendship for the time being?

It's YOUR brother...your problem!
OP Lodz_The_Boat 32 | 1,535
29 Dec 2010  #287
"fare"? Do you mean fair?

Ok I am not an Englishman. I can make spelling mistakes. But you got the idea didn't you?

.is it fair to profit massively from the EU-feeding through?

BB, this was demeaning. We are not such loosers that without EU we could never have progressed. We all need each other for a better future isnt it?

All I am trying to say is that there are some more powerful countries in Europe which try to dominate the EU. Do you disagree? Dont you think there should be a better structure assuring overall equality in the structure?

Well...that is hardly a "slavic union" anymore, isn't it! Changed your mind already Lodz?

BB ... we are not enemies, so lets keep that attitude away.

I am talking about an evolution to a more stronger International Union ... beyond even EU. Slavic Union is nothing but a small club of member states who share similar culture, tradition, language etc, joining to make all those similarities a bonus towards a more united economic force. Its not a threat for anyone or any other organization. This is seperate, and the other club I mentioned is a seperate or futuristic idea for all of us - "Germans, Poles, Turks, English, Chinese, Russian, Indian, South African, Australians, Japanese etc...". All who are in a position to be great determinants of positive change in future. I hope I could clarify myself.
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,731
29 Dec 2010  #288
BB, this was demeaning. We are not such loosers that without EU we could never have progressed.

Well...the majority thinks otherwise.

All I am trying to say is that there are some more powerful countries in Europe which try to dominate the EU.

Rofl
And these games won't be played in a slavic union? Don't kid yourself...
I for sure want to have a say in something I got to pay for!

The EU is not from stone but from us, it's people....you can influence it, you know? Why don't you put your energy into something useful for once and try to work the parliament in Brussel for

changes?
That has for sure a much better chance of success!
OP Lodz_The_Boat 32 | 1,535
29 Dec 2010  #289
the majority thinks otherwise.

Polish forums is not a representative of Poles, and I don't think the majority would think exactly like you. Neither in Germany nor in Poland.

I edited my last post to try and give you the reply of your previous post. Thank you.
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,731
29 Dec 2010  #290
Polish forums is not a representative of Poles, and I don't think the majority would think exactly like you. Neither in Germany nor in Poland.

Well Poland voted in their majority for the EU, didn't they? Why do you think they did so?
When the majority wants out of the EU why do you think Tusk was voted into government???

There is no real anti-EU movement in Poland successfull right now, isn't there..

I think most Poles know full well what they have and where their future lies...hence their lacking enthusiasm for any "slavic"-thingie! ;)

I hope I could clarify myself.

Well...instead of trying to develop the wheel again take that what is already there and working and go from there.

Much better chance of success!
OP Lodz_The_Boat 32 | 1,535
29 Dec 2010  #291
anti-EU movement

I am not looking to be anti-EU ... just I think its not exactly what would be priceless.

When the majority wants out of the EU

Lets not put words into anothers mouth. I never said such a thing. And this idea or a slavic club is not anti-EU.
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,731
29 Dec 2010  #292
And this idea or a slavic club is not anti-EU.

Oh please Lodz...come back to Earth!!!
Seanus 15 | 19,706
29 Dec 2010  #293
Crow, much depends on the leader. Also, there has to be some moving forward from the days of the Ottoman Empire. Erdogan came to Serbia and was warmly welcomed by Tadić. These are modern times. Besides, Turkey has more business with America which could exist concurrently with a Slavic Union. Serbian security would be shored up but the biggest issue would be the seat of power. With the diminishing role of NATO, a new body would need to regulate on Kosovo. However, this is all VERY hypothetical stuff.
OP Lodz_The_Boat 32 | 1,535
29 Dec 2010  #294
Oh please Lodz...come back to Earth!!!

But I am on Earth =). We all can have our opinions right? And it is not a must that you and me agree on everything.
Crow 137 | 7,595
29 Dec 2010  #295
Crow, much depends on the leader.

sure

Also, there has to be some moving forward from the days of the Ottoman Empire.

we agree to it

Erdogan came to Serbia and was warmly welcomed by Tadić.

so what? Poland also welcomed Banana Man (you know what i mean) but it doesn`t mean that Poland should be considered for Banana Republic.

anyway, Serbians are for peace. Its not secret. Especially if it could be honest peace

These are modern times.

absolutely
southern 75 | 7,097
29 Dec 2010  #296
Serbians are for peace. Its not secret

It is proven historically.
Seanus 15 | 19,706
29 Dec 2010  #297
Crow, I beg to differ. I think the Serbian Council around the time of the Athens meeting didn't want peace on terms acceptable to both Milosević and Bulatović. You cannot really talk of Serbia wanting peace when feelings of war ran rampant, Crow. You have to acknowledge that you had many hawks and also territory obsessed people like Karadzić and Mladić in your ranks. They didn't opt for peace in 1993 when Milo did.
Natasa 1 | 580
29 Dec 2010  #298
territory obsessed

Life obsessed.... WWII couldn't be forgotten.

"1991. came immediately after 1941." (Smilja Avramov, professor of international public law on civil war in Yu)

you'll understand
sr.wikipedia.org/sr-el/%D0%A1%D0%BC%D0%B8%D1%99%D0%B0_%D0%90%D0%B2%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%BC%D0%BE%D0%B2
Seanus 15 | 19,706
29 Dec 2010  #299
Karadzić initially signed the Vance-Owen plan but later did a U-turn after watching Mladić discuss the territorial implications. The rest of the Serbian Assembly were convinced too and Milo/Buli had no choice in the matter. Milo was really painted in a bad way but he went for peace here and also was dubbed a 'nationalist' for saying that 'no one will harm you again' at a rally. Also, several Serbian authority figures tried to catch him out at the Hague but he beat them all. They even lied and he calmly brushed them off. To call ethnic cleansing a "policy" of his is absurd! Back to my point, the leader is always key in international relations but let the truth shine. Milo did many bad things but not those levelled against him for the most part.

Isn't that weird? I have never studied Serbo-Croatian but I could translate most of that article without the help of any translators. I have watched enough videos in the language to know that mir is peace and rat is war (I'll look stupid if I'm wrong, hehehe). It's close enough to Polish and the rest I can glean from context. Thanks for the link, Natasa :)
Natasa 1 | 580
29 Dec 2010  #300
no one will harm you again'

Exactly. Again. The history is the reason why that particular word was successful in charming the masses.

the Hague

Interesting death rate there ;)
I wonder if and when is Seselj coming back. He had some health problems recently too.

mir is peace and rat is war

Bravo, It took me few years of Russian in school to realize that mir in russian means world...

You are welcome ;)


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