POLAND: EASTERN or CENTRAL European country?

Not really, Poland is a culturally western country with her own spin and branch of that culture/civilization. What dazzle many laymen talking about Poland are unique historical experiences and a fact that Poland didn't exist during 19th century which were formative century for new nations and old nation alike.

Belonging to a culture group or civilization do not require uniformity if anything right know so called western countries are diverging from their own roots by adopting a viral cultural heresy some people call neo-Marxism other progressiveness.

No melting pots between geographical directions.

There's no western European group of languages. There are several groups like Germanic, Romance, Celtic etc. Just like not all of Eastern Europe is Slavic. East/West division is a cold war era thing, nothing else.

@Grzegorz: you'll realize that all Germanic, Celtic, Romance (true word or rather "Latin"?)... languages are found only in the West. Rumanian although a latin language is in the East.

I'm not going to continue this splitting hair discussion. The Western and Eastern Europe division refers to capitalistic and former communist countries and that's why it's so largely used by whoever around prior to 1989 (I was an adult by then).

In that case you must be as daft as a brush.........but I think you're just proving the pudding by telling little porkies in order to be awkward again.


Exactly. Anything of any value has already been said here and now it will degenerate into a second rate ping-pong tournament of back and forth, same old, same old with a thousand permutations and combinations of the same thing being said over and over. Eventually after about a thousand posts it will peter out until some eejit starts a similar thread (without having checked the forum first). Then the mods will merge it into this one and the whole thing will start all over again. And the absolute worst part of that pattern is those who join a thread without reading anything that went before which is one of the reasons why we get people repeating stuff that's already been plucked, roasted and the meat picked off down to the bone.

We're all very calm here, it's you who is overreacting about people having different opinion to yours.


Thanks to the wonderful nature there will be less and less people who were adult in 1989, if they don't want to move on, let the ignorance die with them.

Indeed, 1989 is a distinct mark for it. But the division itself goes back much deeper into history, as far as to the Kingdom of the Franks as of the year 801-870. The eastern border of their empire was on the river Elbe. Much later on, historians, intellectuals and politicians still considered the river Elbe as the economic "border" between Western Europe and its eastern borderlands. Even Marion Hedda Ilse Gräfin von Dönhoff, the long-time editor of Die Zeit who died in Germany 2002 but was born in Friedrichstein, in today's Kaliningrad enclave of Russia, used to see this distinction very clearly in the 20th century. She used to say that as a former Prussian aristocrat she felt more at home in Poland than in West Germany at the time West Germany still existed.

Of course, the countries bordering the former Regnum Francorum to the east have been under the influence of the so-called West for many centuries and adopted many things from that "West", so the term Central Europe had been slowly coined to describe those lands between the western part of Germany and Russia. In literature you can easily find academic discussions dividing this Central Europe area even further, that is into the central-western and central-eastern Europe. So those claiming the division between the two "Europe's" had been achieved simply as a result of the Worl War II are wrong and should read more on the subject in history books.

Clearly, the divisions from before the WW II were not as distinct as they had become after this war with so-called Iron Curtain having been erected between East and West. As a result the areas of Central Europe and Eastern Europe have been somewhat "merged" under the auspices of the Soviet Union and this common area started to be known as the "Soviet block" or "Eastern Europe". With the fall of the USSR and the development of the European Union to the east, we can safely say we are back again to the reality of old divisions with Poland, Czechia, Slovakia, Hungary in Central Europe, bordering Eastern Europe consisting of Ukraine, Belorus and Russia (to the Ural mountains). And if East Germany was not re-unified with West Germany (we shall remember that it was not certain at the time, for example British Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher was very much against it), it would have also been considered another Central European country.

Very interesting Ziemowit. Thank you very much.

Interesting interpretation. Wonder how Austria-Hungary or the German Empire defined themselves (if at all) - Central Europe, Eastern Europe, both? Most likely, nobody really cared.

Astro-Hungary went right from modern-dat Ukraine, down to the bottom of the Balkans. There's the concept of Mitteleuropa, which you can feel in Wroclaw/Breslau, Lviv/Lemberg and Kraków/Krakau. And even more in Prague, Vienna and Györ.

When there was a bigger German-speaking population in Krakau and Lemberg and that language was used sometimes even by the non-German intelligentsia it must have been even more Mitteleuropa.

The Russian parts of Poland of course we're more firmly Eastern Europe.

That's me to the T.


When fools are posting follies why would I make it easier for them?


What division? Differences between kingdoms of the Europe Christendom? Sure there were plenty, all of them absolutely irrelevant to the issue debated here.
Western civilization is an euphemism for Latin civilization or Christian civilization.
Christian civilization slits into two branches of the same tree - western and eastern.
Western part consists from France on its western geographical end to Poland on its eastern geographical end. From Britan to Hungary, from Portugal to Finland, from Norway to Croatia, those are boundaries of western/Christian civilization in Europe.

All that talk about eastern Europe is a direct result of the two events, disappearance of the Polish Commonwealth in this part of the world and closer to our times subjection of the area by the Soviet totalitarian regime. End off.

Do I glimpse the ghost of a sense of humour?? Living in Ireland must have done that for you.

Not really, Romanian is not in the West, just like "eastern Europe" is not all Slavic speaking, there are Baltic and Uralic languages, Albanian or Greek. A fact that Finland or Greece are regarded as "western Europe" while Poland, Hungary or Slovenia as "eastern Europe" shows that it's all about...


...which 25 years later has not much to do with reality.

Its real easy, the geographic centre of Europe is just outside of Vilnius

All depends who (and how) is measuring... there are at least several other so called 'Centres of Europe' - two of them in Poland....

Poland is Western country. Rich, developed, first world country. Geographicaly is Central Europe, exactly Central-Western country. Poland definitely is not Eastern Europe. Poland never was communistic sad crap. Poland is slavic Western country.

But the current government aspires to a kind of politics that is closer to Ukraine, Belarus or Venezuela.

As an American, we usually consider it to be Eastern Europe because we're all the way out here, but Poland is arguably Central Europe...

Fixed typos and added some more or my i sight here:

I con't get why Polaks or Polish people on forums and online and many of the uneducated people constantly try to reassert themselves as being part of the west or try to make sure everyone knows they are in central or centrum Europe. its like they deny their heritage of being to the east with the land not many years ago (before war) being all the way to Vilno and Galicia and many Ukrainians and others being part of the commonwealth, plus the culture being slavic and east euro in nature. they deny like the dresses or hooligans how they are literally undistinguishable from Russian ones, or how they act in the west is like the Russians but they constantly claim Poland is better or west or other bullshit.

they try to reassert themselves and compare themselves to others (mostly but Russians and Ukrainians down to make themselves feel better I see it on this forum all the time) without realizing there is really no east or west in Europe, we are all white people lol. And Russia is Europe, their history and civilization especially Catherine the Great and peter the great was ahead of Poland many times in history and they were on the world stage when Poland didn't even exist and was in Russia lol (thus we can make a similar argument to at least Armenians if not Georgians and Ukrainians we are all one people).

I am making this thread after reading various others on here like polish girls vs russian girls when people constantly try to make polish people more west or white or some other bullshit. Trust me, I know the west, I lived in the u.s. most of my life and know what they think of Polaks and how they treat us. they don't consider us white even. try hitting one of the California courtrooms in especially mid size or small town community against even one of their non whites and see who the cops and da believes if it is even something like a bar fight. you'll see how white and west they view us.

Or go to Berlin and without thinking and before you get to know who they are you will automatically look at the Polaks there and feel they are east or non white lol non european, like a horde from the east. trust me you may even feel ashamed until you actually talk to them and get to know them. We are east and I am proud of that. Before the war our boundaries hit Kiev I believe and our culture stems from there. We stem from three brothers, the Chech, lech and rus. We are not Germany, we are not France. we are all white people that is what binds us and the fact we are east means we dont get punked by non whites in our jails or streets like in the u.s. the enlightened and western white people do.

Go to a club or bar in America and you will see gang bangers who are not west or white punking them and you will start longing for the east and Poland like I did there. Its like how the Armenians continue to try to convince everyone they're Russian but not Armenian or really geographically and the way they look middle eastern.

"Poland is Western country. Rich, developed, first world country. Geographicaly is Central Europe, exactly Central-Western country. Poland definitely is not Eastern Europe. Poland never was communistic sad crap. Poland is slavic Western country."

You are joking right? There is a reason women from the 90s in Poland and many cases now married old men from other countries to escape, honestly I dont even see how prior to the eu it was any different from ukraine (maybe belarus due to grewter wages and gdp but not architecture restoration of roads and buildings and thievery culture and corruption). The reason the polish cops finally went after pruszkow and all the madias was only because they had to and it took the, to 2004 due to wanting to be in the eu. If the eu at the time had no d esire for Poland it would have ended up like Ukraine is right now with Putin right here and mafias just as prevalent (which they were in 90s as every businessman in warsaw from the time csn attest and. tell you).

Even right bow, although it may be harder to bribe cops from tickets or cases, did you hesr how the last president gave a bunch of property all over warsaw to his cronies and now they are abandoned buildings while they have their assets frozen and da or prosecutions? it was done at highest level of govt. Also, do you think the way businesses kick you out and ask you to buy stuff if youre sitting down too long at least here in Warsaw, does this sound western to you? Or try dealing with the culture of firms trying to get ane exchange or return on things (reklamacja) lol and youll see how western it is. But I like that. I like the corruption as it gives me a hope I cans till start my porn idea or modelling sites as long as I gather the right connections and have money to pay ppl off (may not have to as I will operate id I do do this within the aoc but not within the u.s. aoc).

Under the rule of rightwing PiS, Poland has returned to Eastern European zone. Dozens of anti democratic scandals has reversed the positive perception of a Central European country which Poland had been slowly working on since the collapse of communism.

More and more journalists, politicians, experts, think tank members are prone to place Poland in Eastern Europe., close to autocratic Belarus or Russia.

Thank you, PiS.

I think the very notion of Eastern Europe is a Cold War relic. Until 1990 even Eastern Germany on Western geographic atlases was part of Eastern Europe. I think there is no country which could be regarded as completely Eastern European because even Kaliningrad region of Russia is located in Central Europe. I think it would be better to move away from divisions of Europe into West, Center or East. Why all European countries cannot be just in Europe?!

Is that some kind of a new take on your old BS? If anything you are transplant straight from the Soviet eastern Europe into a new world and cirncumstances you are unable to grasp hence all kinds of utter nonsense you spew just to keep your sanity.

Keep calm. I know the truth hurts but try not to take things so personally.

Poland is a Slavic country. First that. Then, a Central European Slavic country. This sums it all and determines future of Poland. Great future of Poland.

Merged:

As Eastern Europeans

We should be proud of who we are and embrace our culture rather than fight it or try to be something we are not. We need to fight the vatican and realie what our strengths are as a people guys. And be proud to be form eastern europe.

Are you really Polish?
Poles regard themselves as being Central Europeans, not Eastern Europeans.
Poles recognise that they are Slavs but do not feel an afinity nor a loyalty to all Slavs.
They are Polish.
Full stop.

your a retard. only retards like you think like this and there is no such thing as "central European" and no one in England or any other country will believe you or care. Next?

Retard is your standard insult..... gets pretty boring.....
You need to study geography.
Look at a map of europe and tell me, is Poland in central or eastern europe......don't go with your gut instincts.....actually look at a f###ing map!!

Then get back to me.....

it isnt central at all. its not central in any way no one uses the term central. secondly its very right wing antisemitic homophobic racist and east European in every sense of the word retard. it has much more in common with Russia than any other country in Europe and everyone but you knows this just ask the English what they think of Poland or actual western European moron. they are exactly right. you are just w hypocrite who thinks Ukrainians killed Polish but Polish were nice guys to the Jews etc.

I bet you even 60 yrs ago the Germans considered Poland eastern Europe and so did the Vatican and it is like everyone knows about because there is no such thing as central Europe there is Europe and iron curtain thats it. the haves vs have nots black and white etc. if you want to follow by strict geography than the middle east or Arabs would be Europe too or Georgia which is bs and Moscow is also Europe then. and so is turkey which is bs turkey never will be Europe as Poland has always been east Europe even after they shifted the boundaries west in reality it was artificially shifted.

@Strzelec35

I give up.
I made a stupid mistake by trying to coverse with you..... I won't make the same mistake again.... LOL!!