Communism collapsed in Poland in 1989 when opposition leaders grouped around Lech Wałęsa in Solidarity movement took power and created the first non-communist government since WW2. Communists didn`t oppose coz they were too weak and didn`t have any support from the USSR which was troubled with its own problems like deteriorating economy and Afghan war.
The symbol of 1990s is the mobile stall called jaws - after the liberalisation of law, millions of Poles became petty businesspeople who traded everything which communism hadn`t been able to provide. Bazaars and open air markets became fave places to look for amazing bargains.
Quite a few big business started off that way - like CCC which now sells about 50 million pairs of shoes a year !
My neighbor sold bathroom fittings that way - got them from Germany and drove back through the night to sell them. Now a millionaire with a large bathroom business
Quite correct. After the communist backwardness and eventual downfall, the new system gradually transformed Poland into a prospering capitalist country. Not without problems, of course. A lot of people suffered exclusion they hadn`t expected. They were used to being provided with jobs by the state, when it suddenly turned out they needed to show their own initiative. A complete shock, especially to people who worked in state agricultural cooperatives which were dissolved. as a communist relic.
. They were used to being provided with jobs.when it suddenly turned out they needed to show their own initiative. A complete shock
Great posr!
That is the difference between capitalism and socialism. Under socialism,you are poor but fed. Under capitalism, you need to work hard to keep fed. I think capitalism suits Poles better as they are hard workers that think about the future, their children and grandchildren. Poland has come a long way since 1989. Long may it prosper!
Bazaars and open air markets became fave places to look for amazing bargains
What I remember is that the sidewalks on a couple of streets just became open air markets on their own - one I remember was a major street leading to a fixed open air market. Another was just a more or less random street in the downtown area with people selling every imaginable item.
Oddly, a lot of them were pretty honest. I bought a radio-cassette player to make recordings but it didn't record and I took it back the next day and he exchanged it with no problem (trying to get a refund in a state store at the time was more trouble than it was worth).
I also remember these.... trailers (usually dark orange) that were turned into early versions of food trucks.
Quite a few big business started off that way - like CCC which now sells about 50 million pairs of shoes a year !
Yes, the same was with Kolporter. The guy who created it and owns it is from Kielce (the company's headquarters is still in Kielce) - Krzysztof Klicki. One taxi driver told me that in the 90s Klicki couldn't even afford his own car, so him and other taxi drivers were helping him to distribute press by driving him with all the newspapers around Kielce. Now Kolporter is the biggest press distributor in Poland and Klicki is one of the richest people in our country :)
Relax. It is obvious fury is blinding you. The only PF native members who support socialist measures by PiS or the left are gumishu and probably another one but I am not sure so I won`t say the name.
Short answer, No. Germany is not a "Socialist" country, not even close. Germany is a Capitalist country and quite successful too. Short answer, Yes, North Korea is a "Socialist" country.
@Alien Social (basing communication on verbal social interactions), easily leads to corruption and deals being solely based on connections and type of mentality like: «scratch my back, I scratch yours»
Socialism is a form of ideology which bases it's system on that and that of resolving most issues including trade.
While Capitalism is easily more focused on written communication, items, goods being on time, right amounts and production of goods and services in need and creation of needs to be able to profit by increasing production of goods.
One of the reasons capitalism seems "inhumane" for socially adept people due to difference in communication. While those who prefer technological advancements, and less contacts with people and contracts/laws etc prefer a more capitalist system naturally.
Introvert vs extrovert systems basically.
It's extremes have lead to uprisings&protests.
Difference between having no money, but stalls of food in front of you.
Why are you asking me? I used "communism" in reference to past Poland in this thread, it was Milo and johhny who mentioned socialism in its modern meaning.
, it was Milo and johhny who mentioned socialism in its modern meaning.
Just like marijuana can be a gateway drug to more serious drugs, socialism can be a gateway drug to Communism. If you can't see that then you must be blind.
Germany is much more social than North Korea. Is Germany a socialist country?
OF course everybody forgets that Marx (who did make some good points elsewhere) got the transition from capitalism to communism completely wrong....
Imperial russia with its predatory elite and enslaved masses and widespread poverty and ignorance was supposed to be one of the least likely countries to transition...
Marx's model of socialism was closer to the Scandinavian welfare states of the 1960s 1970s than anything actually existing in his time.
Be that as it may, even the Scandinavian welfare states were/are capitalist...
Anyhoo, the terms have traditional definitions that no one seems to care about preferring to use their own which muddles a topic that needs clarity.
Captialism - the means of production are privately owned
Socialism - the means of production are owned by the government
Communism - the means of production are owned by "the people" as the state has withered away...
Fascism - less clearly defined but 'the means of production are privately owned but controlled by the government' will do.
No pure capitalist or communist state has (or ever could) appear which means most countries have mixed systems with capitalist and socialist or fascistic elements (the exact mix changes over time and is called 'politics')
Poland went from a primarily socialist system (that allowed small scale private ownership) to a... more capitalist system.
This Soap Fa from 1992 is said to be the first disco polo song ever produced in Poland The creators meant it as a parody and pastiche but it caught on with millions and became an amasing hit for months to go. I remember it was the most frequently played tune at our summer language youth camp discos in 1992.
I'm pretty sure I remember Mydełko Fa from 1991...
Wasn't it called muzyka chodnikowa (or podwórkowa) [sidewalk or yard music] then? (referencing pirate cassettes sold on sidewalks?)
Anyhoo, during one trip back to the states in the early 90s Mydełko Fa was the only Polish music that people I knew liked..... (I played lots of other stuff for them but this was that was the one they thought was original sounding - and these were highly educated people...).
I bought the album and my next favorite on it was "W salonie marzeń" youtube only has a version with Drozdowska but I seem to remember a version with Kondrat singin.... am I crazy?
I see you have serious problem with identification of political systems in the world.
At least I can identify someone promoting Communism the way you do on your PolishForum here. You might find this interesting. Communist Rules for Revolution
In May 1919 at Dusseldorf, Germany, the allied forces discovered a copy of these 'Rules.' They were first printed in the United States in the 'Bartlesville (Oklahoma) Examiner-Enterprise' the same year, 1919.
Almost 20 years later, in 1946, the attorney general of Florida obtained them from a known member of the Communist Party, who acknowledged that the 'Rules' were then still a part of the Communist program for the United States and the rest of the world, including Poland.
1. Corrupt the young, get them away from religion. Get them interested in sex. Make them superficial. Destroy their ruggedness.
2. Get control of all means of publicity. (Bias Moderating)
3. Get people's minds off their government by focusing their attention on athletics, sexy books and other trivialities.
4. Divide the people into hostile groups by constantly harping on controversial matters of no importance.
5. Destroy the people's faith in their natural leaders by holding the latter up to contempt, ridicule and obloquy.
6. Always preach true democracy, but seize power as fast and as ruthlessly as possible.
7. By encouraging government extravagance, destroy its credit and produce fear of inflation with rising prices and general discontent.
8. Foment unnecessary strikes in vital industries, encourage civil disorders, and foster a lenient and soft attitude on the part of government toward such disorders.
9. By specious argument cause the breakdown of the old moral virtues, honesty, sobriety, continence, faith in the pledged word, ruggedness.
10. Cause the registration of all firearms on some pretext, with a view to confiscating them and leaving the populace helpless.
Now, stop and think, how many of these rules are being carried out in Poland and on this PolishForum and in the rest of the world ?
I don't see how any thinking person can truthfully say that the Communists do not have any part in the chaos that is upsetting Poland.
Short answer, Yes, North Korea is a "Socialist" country.
No, it is communist totalitarian. I see you have serious problem with identification of political systems in the world.
And you call yourself a schoolteacher. Now listen and learn what the Reb has to teach you. N. Korea is an Independent Socialist State with a totalitarian dictatorship with sham elections. It is a cult run by the Kim family with a motto of, "military first."
Yes, and I can never give up this role when we debate things coz your education is shallow. Besides, you are like a naive child. :):):) E.g., you blindly believe the NK regime when they dub themselves socialist while in fact they are communist. Avoid taking things at face value but do your research in greater depth. Ha!
.. do you have any experiences in the period 1989-1992 or so?
Not from a Polish perspective. But I still don't see how that takes away from my post that "I see very little difference between Socialism and Communism" .
"I see very little difference between Socialism and Communism"
Technically according to the definition.... communism has never existed (since it requires the elimination of the state which has never come close to happening in any self-named 'communist' area....
again...
Socialism - the means of production are owned by the government
Communism - the means of production are owned by "the people" as the state has withered away... (never gotten close to that and basically unachievable)
Fascism - the means of production are privately owned but controlled by the militarized (whole society is militarized).
What has been called communism in practice whether the USSR or North Korea or Cambodia is a weird cross of socialism and fascism (mostly socialism economically but politically fascist with the brutal suppression of dissent that that entails).
Technically there is no such country of North Korea.
NK regime when they dub themselves socialist while in fact they are communist.
Sure, you might have heard some people saying "Oh but they say they're communist !" which is usually groundless, or at best is in reference to the country having an ideology of achieving communism without the country itself having achieved the state of being that is communism.
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