The BEST Guide to POLAND
Unanswered  |  Archives 
 
 
User: Guest

Home / History  % width posts: 76

Crazy 1990s in Poland - transition from communism to capitalism - stories


pawian 222 | 24,365
15 Oct 2022 #1
Communism collapsed in Poland in 1989 when opposition leaders grouped around Lech Wałęsa in Solidarity movement took power and created the first non-communist government since WW2. Communists didn`t oppose coz they were too weak and didn`t have any support from the USSR which was troubled with its own problems like deteriorating economy and Afghan war.

The symbol of 1990s is the mobile stall called jaws - after the liberalisation of law, millions of Poles became petty businesspeople who traded everything which communism hadn`t been able to provide. Bazaars and open air markets became fave places to look for amazing bargains.









cms neuf 1 | 1,768
15 Oct 2022 #2
Quite a few big business started off that way - like CCC which now sells about 50 million pairs of shoes a year !

My neighbor sold bathroom fittings that way - got them from Germany and drove back through the night to sell them. Now a millionaire with a large bathroom business
OP pawian 222 | 24,365
15 Oct 2022 #3
Quite a few big business started off that way

Quite correct. After the communist backwardness and eventual downfall, the new system gradually transformed Poland into a prospering capitalist country. Not without problems, of course. A lot of people suffered exclusion they hadn`t expected. They were used to being provided with jobs by the state, when it suddenly turned out they needed to show their own initiative. A complete shock, especially to people who worked in state agricultural cooperatives which were dissolved. as a communist relic.
Miloslaw 19 | 4,904
15 Oct 2022 #4
. They were used to being provided with jobs.when it suddenly turned out they needed to show their own initiative. A complete shock

Great posr!

That is the difference between capitalism and socialism.
Under socialism,you are poor but fed.
Under capitalism, you need to work hard to keep fed.
I think capitalism suits Poles better as they are hard workers that think about the future, their children and grandchildren.
Poland has come a long way since 1989.
Long may it prosper!
OP pawian 222 | 24,365
15 Oct 2022 #5
Under socialism,you are poor but fed.

Yes, with artificial honey sandwich. I ate that shyt at youth camps in 1970s. Yuk.

Under capitalism,you need to work hard to keep fed.

With a ham sandwich. Or salmon sandwich. Or caviar and fish liver sandwich. Yummy!!!!
Miloslaw 19 | 4,904
15 Oct 2022 #6
artificial honey

Wow!

Communism failed big time.
Socialism is the gateway drug to Communism.
Please avoid the pushers....
mafketis 37 | 10,866
16 Oct 2022 #7
Bazaars and open air markets became fave places to look for amazing bargains

What I remember is that the sidewalks on a couple of streets just became open air markets on their own - one I remember was a major street leading to a fixed open air market. Another was just a more or less random street in the downtown area with people selling every imaginable item.

Oddly, a lot of them were pretty honest. I bought a radio-cassette player to make recordings but it didn't record and I took it back the next day and he exchanged it with no problem (trying to get a refund in a state store at the time was more trouble than it was worth).

I also remember these.... trailers (usually dark orange) that were turned into early versions of food trucks.

They looked like this but not as nice...

pl.aliexpress.com/item/4001243428859.html
Paulina 16 | 4,357
16 Oct 2022 #8
Quite a few big business started off that way - like CCC which now sells about 50 million pairs of shoes a year !

Yes, the same was with Kolporter. The guy who created it and owns it is from Kielce (the company's headquarters is still in Kielce) - Krzysztof Klicki. One taxi driver told me that in the 90s Klicki couldn't even afford his own car, so him and other taxi drivers were helping him to distribute press by driving him with all the newspapers around Kielce. Now Kolporter is the biggest press distributor in Poland and Klicki is one of the richest people in our country :)

artificial honey

Or compound chocolate :)
johnny reb 48 | 7,060
16 Oct 2022 #9
Socialism is the gateway drug to Communism. Please avoid the pushers....

I'm afraid that is too late as all of the Polish members here have already been indoctrinated (dumbed down) to Socialism except for Cojestdocholery.
OP pawian 222 | 24,365
16 Oct 2022 #10
all of the Polish members here Socialism

Relax. It is obvious fury is blinding you. The only PF native members who support socialist measures by PiS or the left are gumishu and probably another one but I am not sure so I won`t say the name.
Alien 20 | 4,954
17 Oct 2022 #11
@pawian
@johnny reb
What is Socialism. Germany is much more social than North Korea. Is Germany a socialist country?
johnny reb 48 | 7,060
17 Oct 2022 #12
Germany is much more social than North Korea.

Short answer, No. Germany is not a "Socialist" country, not even close.
Germany is a Capitalist country and quite successful too.
Short answer, Yes, North Korea is a "Socialist" country.
Kashub1410 6 | 690
17 Oct 2022 #13
@Alien
Social (basing communication on verbal social interactions), easily leads to corruption and deals being solely based on connections and type of mentality like: «scratch my back, I scratch yours»

Socialism is a form of ideology which bases it's system on that and that of resolving most issues including trade.

While Capitalism is easily more focused on written communication, items, goods being on time, right amounts and production of goods and services in need and creation of needs to be able to profit by increasing production of goods.

One of the reasons capitalism seems "inhumane" for socially adept people due to difference in communication. While those who prefer technological advancements, and less contacts with people and contracts/laws etc prefer a more capitalist system naturally.

Introvert vs extrovert systems basically.

It's extremes have lead to uprisings&protests.

Difference between having no money, but stalls of food in front of you.

Or tons of "money" but, no food infront of you
OP pawian 222 | 24,365
17 Oct 2022 #14
@pawian
@johnny reb
What is Socialism.

Why are you asking me? I used "communism" in reference to past Poland in this thread, it was Milo and johhny who mentioned socialism in its modern meaning.
Miloslaw 19 | 4,904
17 Oct 2022 #15
, it was Milo and johhny who mentioned socialism in its modern meaning.

Just like marijuana can be a gateway drug to more serious drugs, socialism can be a gateway drug to Communism.
If you can't see that then you must be blind.
OP pawian 222 | 24,365
18 Oct 2022 #16
can be

Anything can be. Also you can be sb else one day after you suffer a mental breakdown or a stroke or develop Alzheimer. etc.
OP pawian 222 | 24,365
19 Oct 2022 #17
Yes, North Korea is a "Socialist" country.

No, it is communist totalitarian. I see you have serious problem with identification of political systems in the world. :):):)
mafketis 37 | 10,866
20 Oct 2022 #18
Germany is much more social than North Korea. Is Germany a socialist country?

OF course everybody forgets that Marx (who did make some good points elsewhere) got the transition from capitalism to communism completely wrong....

Imperial russia with its predatory elite and enslaved masses and widespread poverty and ignorance was supposed to be one of the least likely countries to transition...

Marx's model of socialism was closer to the Scandinavian welfare states of the 1960s 1970s than anything actually existing in his time.

Be that as it may, even the Scandinavian welfare states were/are capitalist...

Anyhoo, the terms have traditional definitions that no one seems to care about preferring to use their own which muddles a topic that needs clarity.

Captialism - the means of production are privately owned

Socialism - the means of production are owned by the government

Communism - the means of production are owned by "the people" as the state has withered away...

Fascism - less clearly defined but 'the means of production are privately owned but controlled by the government' will do.

No pure capitalist or communist state has (or ever could) appear which means most countries have mixed systems with capitalist and socialist or fascistic elements (the exact mix changes over time and is called 'politics')

Poland went from a primarily socialist system (that allowed small scale private ownership) to a... more capitalist system.
OP pawian 222 | 24,365
22 Oct 2022 #19
This Soap Fa from 1992 is said to be the first disco polo song ever produced in Poland The creators meant it as a parody and pastiche but it caught on with millions and became an amasing hit for months to go. I remember it was the most frequently played tune at our summer language youth camp discos in 1992.


mafketis 37 | 10,866
22 Oct 2022 #20
the first disco polo song

I'm pretty sure I remember Mydełko Fa from 1991...

Wasn't it called muzyka chodnikowa (or podwórkowa) [sidewalk or yard music] then? (referencing pirate cassettes sold on sidewalks?)

Anyhoo, during one trip back to the states in the early 90s Mydełko Fa was the only Polish music that people I knew liked..... (I played lots of other stuff for them but this was that was the one they thought was original sounding - and these were highly educated people...).

I bought the album and my next favorite on it was "W salonie marzeń" youtube only has a version with Drozdowska but I seem to remember a version with Kondrat singin.... am I crazy?
OP pawian 222 | 24,365
22 Oct 2022 #21
I'm pretty sure I remember Mydełko Fa from 1991...

Quite possible, my first summer language camp was in 1991.
johnny reb 48 | 7,060
9 Nov 2022 #22
I see you have serious problem with identification of political systems in the world.

At least I can identify someone promoting Communism the way you do on your PolishForum here.
You might find this interesting.
Communist Rules for Revolution

In May 1919 at Dusseldorf, Germany, the allied forces discovered a copy of these 'Rules.'
They were first printed in the United States in the 'Bartlesville (Oklahoma) Examiner-Enterprise' the same year, 1919.

Almost 20 years later, in 1946, the attorney general of Florida obtained them from a known member of the Communist Party, who acknowledged that the 'Rules' were then still a part of the Communist program for the United States and the rest of the world, including Poland.

1. Corrupt the young, get them away from religion. Get them interested in sex. Make them superficial. Destroy their ruggedness.

2. Get control of all means of publicity. (Bias Moderating)

3. Get people's minds off their government by focusing their attention on athletics, sexy books and other trivialities.

4. Divide the people into hostile groups by constantly harping on controversial matters of no importance.

5. Destroy the people's faith in their natural leaders by holding the latter up to contempt, ridicule and obloquy.

6. Always preach true democracy, but seize power as fast and as ruthlessly as possible.

7. By encouraging government extravagance, destroy its credit and produce fear of inflation with rising prices and general discontent.

8. Foment unnecessary strikes in vital industries, encourage civil disorders, and foster a lenient and soft attitude on the part of government toward such disorders.

9. By specious argument cause the breakdown of the old moral virtues, honesty, sobriety, continence, faith in the pledged word, ruggedness.

10. Cause the registration of all firearms on some pretext, with a view to confiscating them and leaving the populace helpless.

Now, stop and think, how many of these rules are being carried out in Poland and on this PolishForum and in the rest of the world ?

I don't see how any thinking person can truthfully say that the Communists do not have any part in the chaos that is upsetting Poland.

Or is it just one big coincidence ? Simple
johnny reb 48 | 7,060
10 Nov 2022 #23
Reply to post #17

Short answer, Yes, North Korea is a "Socialist" country.

No, it is communist totalitarian. I see you have serious problem with identification of political systems in the world.

And you call yourself a schoolteacher.
Now listen and learn what the Reb has to teach you.
N. Korea is an Independent Socialist State with a totalitarian dictatorship with sham elections.
It is a cult run by the Kim family with a motto of, "military first."
OP pawian 222 | 24,365
10 Nov 2022 #24
And you call yourself a schoolteacher.

Yes, and I can never give up this role when we debate things coz your education is shallow. Besides, you are like a naive child. :):):) E.g., you blindly believe the NK regime when they dub themselves socialist while in fact they are communist. Avoid taking things at face value but do your research in greater depth. Ha!
Miloslaw 19 | 4,904
10 Nov 2022 #25
. I see you have serious problem with identification of political systems in the world

In defence of JR Jim, I see very little difference between Socialism and Communism, to me, they are both as vile as Facism.
mafketis 37 | 10,866
10 Nov 2022 #26
see very little difference between Socialism and Communism

not the topic of the thread... do you have any experiences in the period 1989-1992 or so?
Miloslaw 19 | 4,904
10 Nov 2022 #27
.. do you have any experiences in the period 1989-1992 or so?

Not from a Polish perspective.
But I still don't see how that takes away from my post that "I see very little difference between Socialism and Communism" .
johnny reb 48 | 7,060
11 Nov 2022 #28
you blindly believe the NK regime when they dub themselves socialist while in fact they are communist.

Technically we are both correct.
mafketis 37 | 10,866
11 Nov 2022 #29
"I see very little difference between Socialism and Communism"

Technically according to the definition.... communism has never existed (since it requires the elimination of the state which has never come close to happening in any self-named 'communist' area....

again...

Socialism - the means of production are owned by the government

Communism - the means of production are owned by "the people" as the state has withered away... (never gotten close to that and basically unachievable)

Fascism - the means of production are privately owned but controlled by the militarized (whole society is militarized).

What has been called communism in practice whether the USSR or North Korea or Cambodia is a weird cross of socialism and fascism (mostly socialism economically but politically fascist with the brutal suppression of dissent that that entails).
johnny reb 48 | 7,060
11 Nov 2022 #30
Technically there is no such country of North Korea.

NK regime when they dub themselves socialist while in fact they are communist.

Sure, you might have heard some people saying "Oh but they say they're communist !" which is usually groundless, or at best is in reference to the country having an ideology of achieving communism without the country itself having achieved the state of being that is communism.


Home / History / Crazy 1990s in Poland - transition from communism to capitalism - stories
BoldItalic [quote]
 
To post as Guest, enter a temporary username or login and post as a member.