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The British Royal Family and Poland: Any connection?


Atch 17 | 4,100
21 Sep 2022 #31
I wonder where She visited.

Warsaw and Kraków but the latter just for a few hours. It was only a two day visit I think.
mafketis 34 | 12,513
21 Sep 2022 #32
I wonder where She visited.

I used to know the person who interpreted for her and Charles (and Thatcher as well). But I haven't seen him for many years now...
johnny reb 37 | 7,640
21 Sep 2022 #33
Queen Elizabeth II's only visit to Poland came in 1996.

March 1996, the British ruler paid her only visit to Poland.
She opened an exhibition entitled "Eagle and Lion. 900 years of Polish-British relations" at the Royal Castle.

Queen Elizabeth visited Poland in 1996.

Yes Atch, we saw that.
A possible visit by the King may not happen until several years from now at the earliest, which is probably after the end of Duda's current second presidential term.
jon357 71 | 21,086
21 Sep 2022 #34
and Thatcher as well

Poor guy.

Apparently she was quite good company though and nice to staff.

I remember The King when he was Prince of Wales visiting Warsaw and going to the monument to the British Airmen who were killed helping the Warsaw Uprising.
OP Lyzko 36 | 8,462
21 Sep 2022 #35
Thanks for your engaging answers!
Was merely wondering as to the political as well
as cultural "proximity" between the Thames and the Vistula:-)
jon357 71 | 21,086
21 Sep 2022 #36
Different political and legal systems however the two countries have very good relations.
OP Lyzko 36 | 8,462
21 Sep 2022 #37
Useful observation, jon. Many thanks.
Miloslaw 14 | 4,669
21 Sep 2022 #38
Different political and legal systems however the two countries have very good relations

Agreed.Always have had and always will have.
Britain's support of Ukraine would be the same for Poland.
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 13,182
22 Sep 2022 #39
I guess Scotland, then Wales, then the Commonwealth first....Charles will want to keep them together.....
jon357 71 | 21,086
22 Sep 2022 #40
The King visiting Białowieża in 2010

I guess Scotland, then Wales, then the Commonwealth

Scotland? Unlikely (only 22% want that according to current - pre-accession - polls), Wales, no significant support. The Commonwealth? Despite China trying to bribe countries to change from Commonwealth Realms to Commonwealth members, it's actually growing at the moment and never stronger. That's unconnected to Poland though.



pawian 194 | 19,848
22 Sep 2022 #41
Thatcher as well

While in Poland, she bought a jar of pickled noble mushrooms at the open air market. I will never forget that scene with her holding that giant jar.



OP Lyzko 36 | 8,462
22 Sep 2022 #42
Off topic, yet tangentially connected, curious whether or not Polish cuisine is popular in the UK amongst the broad population or is it deemed a bit too rustic?

If you look at it, "English" cooking essentially didn't exist for the Upper Classes, who typically hired a French cook, at least among the landed gentry:-)

Not until Mrs.Beaton did for Britain what Artusi did for Italy, was there really a national cuisine in England.
jon357 71 | 21,086
22 Sep 2022 #43
whether or not Polish cuisine is popular in the UK

Not really. After EU enlargement there was some interest however it doesn't really suit the tastes there and people who are adventurous about food tend to go for spicier things or food that's lower in carbs. And of course cuisines from nearby countries tend to suit weather, types of farming etc and both cuisines fit their own country better than each other's.

Plus the offerings in the Polish shops that sprung up post-2004 tend to be convenience store stuff and not the best.

, "English" cooking essentially didn't exist for the Upper Classes, who typically hired a French cook,

Not really; there's been a distinct culinary tradition for many centuries, especially the food that better off people ate. As in Poland, the poor didn't eat that well until modern times and what we think of as British or Polish cuisine emerged from the kitchens of those who could afford it.

Mrs.Beaton did for Britain

Isabella Beeton didn't actually create any recipes; she just recorded existing ones in suitable quantities for large households. There have been cookbooks there since the fourteenth century and several good ones (Hannah Glasse etc) in the century before Mrs Beeton was born.

Plus, British cuisine/s are more diverse and regional; the two countries have very different shapes and traditions. WW2 had a different effect on both with the population movement in Poland standardising things and of course the rural/urban split is different.
Miloslaw 14 | 4,669
22 Sep 2022 #44
@Lyzko

You have some really weird ideas about Britain and the British.
Have you ever visited here and when?
Brits are very open to foreign cultures and are especially interested in their cuisines.
I will not lie.
Polish cuisine has not had an impact on British tastes like Indian, Chinese, Italian or even Greek cuisine.
But more so than Scandinavian, Dutch or German!
Most Brits see Polish cuisine as pretty basic, not fancy, but good honest food.
And you will find Polish food not only in every supermarket but in every corner shop too.
OP Lyzko 36 | 8,462
23 Sep 2022 #45
Your misconceptions concerning the United States ain't so hot either, pal! I was in fact in your lovely country a total of four times, once as a teen, second as a young husband with my kids, third on business, fourth and last during the late '90's and therefore am merely sharing my humble impressions of English cuisine.....a lot more than shepherd's pie and warm ale, let me tell you:-)

Care to hear my take on the origins of RP??
lol
Miloslaw 14 | 4,669
23 Sep 2022 #46
If I knew what RP was I may be able to answer you.
mafketis 34 | 12,513
23 Sep 2022 #47
If I knew what RP was

"Received pronunciation" more or less the broadcast standard pronunciation of BBC about 60 or 70 years ago.... (frequently referred to in foreign language textbooks created in the UK until the 1980s or so).
jon357 71 | 21,086
23 Sep 2022 #48
Now, it's 'modified RP', sort of Jeremy Clarkson's accent.
OP Lyzko 36 | 8,462
24 Sep 2022 #49
That as compared to either the late Queen Elizabeth or some of her closest entourage:-)
jon357 71 | 21,086
24 Sep 2022 #50
the late Queen

Was born in 1926.

I'm not sure what you mean by "Her entourage". She wasn't some sort of celebrity or mafia don.

Her accent however changed noticeably over the years. Compare an old recording (perhaps the well known 1952 broadcast) with Her final State Opening of Parliament. Both are available online.

BBC English (still the prestige register of the language and no sign of that changing) is very adaptable and continues to evolve.
pawian 194 | 19,848
24 Sep 2022 #51
frequently referred to in foreign language textbooks created in the UK until the 1980s or so).

Yes, they taught us atuni that the RP was the most elegant of all. The guys who didn`t master it were laughed at by some academic teachers.
jon357 71 | 21,086
24 Sep 2022 #52
they taught us atuni that the RP was the most elegant of all.

I slightly know an esteemed Polish professor, now probably retired who speaks English as if he were Simon Raven or Kingsley Amis broadcasting in in 1960 or Dame Edith Evans playing Lady Bracknell. It sounds beautifully nostalgic for me, as if it were a very old radio broadcast however it also sounds ridiculous. Some students in Warsaw where certainly bring taught an exaggerated 1930s Oxford University ascent as late as about 20 years ago.

That accent was basically a modish one that lasted from the 1920s until the late fifties or early 60s. Before that, it was never as extreme. There are surviving recordings of both Florence Nightingale and Queen Victoria, both in old age. Neither of them sounded like that at all and had accents closer to today's BBC English.

The British Royal Family however never really had that accent, except for the Queen's early broadcasts where She was taking care to enunciate well. To my ear they have a definite London)South East sound, even the late Queen. The King possibly the least of that, however I've never heard him speak off the record.

When Poles attempt that mid century Oxford -'gown' accent they just either sound Saath Efrikan, or very silly, or most frequently both.

Definitely not royal, however they'd need s very good ear to get it absolutely right.
OP Lyzko 36 | 8,462
24 Sep 2022 #53
Appreciate the information, as always!

Admittedly, pronunciation, as with language, does change and yes, I surely noticed a change between the Queen's early broadcasts compared with her much later ones, although to a Yankee ear, almost imperceptible.

We must both confess as well that the impact of the "Swinging '60's" certainly obliterated that which was once deemed highbrow and the like.

Nowadays, everyday life has become so boringly homogenized into a veritable Mulligan's Stew of all ethnicities under the sun, seemingly speaking the same dumbed down Globish, one almost yearns for the choleric pomposity found in Rumpold of the Bailey or that ilk.

Here in this country, I'm still flabbergasted that "Frasier" lasted as many seasons as it did, brilliantly farcical as it was.
mafketis 34 | 12,513
24 Sep 2022 #54
Yes, they taught us atuni that the RP was the most elegant of all

A projection of Polish attitudes toward Polish onto English speaking attitudes toward English.... I don't get British attitudes entirely but people who aren't.... born? ...assimilated into (does that happen)? the right class using RP is.... not looked well upon.

I remember some Brits I knew were horrified by the pronunciation being drilled into students and successfully lobbied for something more realistic which may have been something more like Estuary English (this was a long time ago...)

I came across the term in British produced foreign language textbooks (as in the old Teach Yourself series) which was mystifying since it didn't have much in common with my pronunciation....
jon357 71 | 21,086
24 Sep 2022 #55
'scuse the typos in the earlier post; i was using predictive text on a phone.

he impact of the "Swinging '60's" certainly obliterated

More widespread TV ownership than anything else. That and an increase in social mobility.

eemingly speaking the same dumbed down Globish

I don't hear that at all.

not looked well upon.

Decades ago, and it isn't nearly as bad as it used to be however there can still be snobbery and misconceptions in the 'Home Counties' about Northern accents They especially can't get their heads around the fact that someone can be further up the social and educational scale than they are and sound Northern.
Miloslaw 14 | 4,669
24 Sep 2022 #56
There used to be some truth in that, but I think things are changing now.
jon357 71 | 21,086
24 Sep 2022 #57
Yes, it does seem that way.
OP Lyzko 36 | 8,462
25 Sep 2022 #58
@jon,
All I can add is that when I contrast the way average middle-class, even more proletarian, Americans speak nowadays, I can practically fall asleep waiting for the point, for something interesting or concrete.

When I was in school during the late '70's, boy oh' boy would our teachers let us have it if we even started to ramble, and not only in English class!

General written English too is often riddled with basic errors, from official banking correspondence to notices in our public laundry area. It's so embarrassing, don't you think?
jon357 71 | 21,086
26 Sep 2022 #59
middle-class,

What Americans refer to as middle class is what British people refer to as working class. The demographic most adverts and desired by mass media including or even especially the TV

Nevertheless there are some howlers in official communications. Saying/writing "less" rather than "fewer" or using the wrong preposition in the phrase "different from".

The Royal Family don't all speak alike though. If you compare the King and His sister, there's quite a difference.
mafketis 34 | 12,513
26 Sep 2022 #60
What Americans refer to as middle class is what British people refer to as working class

There's no simple alignment....

Some years ago I worked out a simplified taxonomy of social class in the US (primarily for whites though generally applies to other groups)

Wealthy class: The one percent, have no contact with other classes except as employees. Wealth from finance and/or corporate activity.

Upper class: professionals such as doctors and lawyers, show status through philanthropy (esp cultural) mostly don't use government services. Despite material success, often in debt.

Middle class: Tend to own their own homes (and both spouses work) children go to college, mostly engaged in office work and/or middle management.

Working class: mostly work in jobs supervised by the middle class, less likely to attend college

Lower class: (aka precariat) low skill and low paying jobs (fast food, cleaning, construction) often qualify for government support

Underclass: rarely employed and often de facto homeless, drug abuse and other forms of dysfunction are common

(a finer grain analysis is also possible but this works as a general orientation...)

The thing is that in the US, everybody from the upper to working class (and sometimes even lower class) tend to think and refer to themselves as 'middle class'...

What's the UK class structure (simplified and/or generalized)?


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