Battle of Warsaw/Miracle at the Vistula in Poland

Which of the following do you consider the most factual book related to the ' Battle of Warsaw/Miracle at the Vistula, ' ?

Zamoyski

Warsaw 1920: Lenin's Failed Conquest of Europe

Davies

White Eagle, Red Star: The Polish-Soviet War 1919-1920 and The Miracle on the Vistula

@Wedle▲ 0▼ 0

Hi Wedle. I havent read Zamoyski but I read Davies book many years ago, and, as usual with Davies, found it an excellent read. If you're aware of Davies work, you'll know that he writes in an imaginative style, whereas Zamoyski seems slightly drier and more prosaic. Either way, I'm sure you won't go wrong with either author in terms of accuracy.

Is there anything specific you wish to know about the Battle of Warsaw? If it's anything battle related, I can try and ask my dad, whose dad, uncles and removed cousin all fought in it and related some stories to him (think I posted a piccie on PF of the three of them taken shortly after the battle).

I've always been interested in this battle on the grounds that it was the last large scale cavalry battle in Europe, and of course the Poles beat the Muscovites hordes. What's your interest in it?

Cheers Dan

@Ozi Dan▲ 0▼ 0

I will be in the UK next week and I am looking for some books on 20th century Polish history for my godson, he is 17, a complete History of Poland (Davies) is too comprehensive,the books I have chosen on my shortlist are as follows:

White Eagle, Red Star: The Polish-Soviet War 1919-1920 and The Miracle on the Vistula or Warsaw 1920: Lenin's Failed Conquest of Europe
Bloodlands: Europe Between Hitler and Stalin Timothy Snyder
No Greater ally Kenneth K Koskodan

Is there a second edition of
White Eagle, Red Star: The Polish-Soviet War 1919-1920 and The Miracle on the Vistula?

@Wedle▲ 0▼ 0

Whilst it doesn't exclusively deal with the C20, "Heart of Europe" by Davies is essentially an abridged version of God's Playground and seems to borrow heavily on the salient parts. I'd recommend that as it's about 350 pages and a good read.

I've also read Lukowski (Liberty's Folly - more to do with C17) but I think he has a general history of Poland as well in another work.

I haven't heard of the other books you've cited but they sound interesting.

I'm not sure if there's a 2nd edition of WERS. The one I had was a beat up old paperback. I'll try and find it.

Have you thought of also giving him Michener's "Poland" - a work of fiction based on 'fact', but a good read nonetheless and it'll probably whet his appetite for other works.

Cheers.

@Ozi Dan▲ 0▼ 0

The original was written about 30-35 years ago, I read somewhere a revised edition had been released


I will read some reviews on the above and maybe I can find a couple of pages on line to get a brief, thanks for the feedback any other ides I am all ears,

@Wedle▲ 0▼ 0

I think you're right. Davies in Rising 44 (Notes) refers to a new edition to be published in 2003.


I'll try and dig out an essay I did at Uni in the 90's as it had a bibliography with a lot of different authors/works. Can't guarantee I'll find it in time for you though but I'll try. Alexander(?) Giesztor rings a bell as being another author who wrote a fairly good history, though I think this was published back in the 1960's.

Hi Wedle,

I'm sorry but I couldn't find the bibliography and can't help any further with other works. All the best.

@Ozi Dan▲ 0▼ 0

Ozi Dan, thanks for your efforts, I picked up the books delivered them to him, I finally went with:

1. Warsaw 1920 Lenin's failed conquest of Europe - Adam Zamoyski
2. Bloodlands Europe between Hitler and Stalin- Timothy Snyder.

and a must read

3. Mila 18 - Leon Uris.

Thanks once again.

@Wedle▲ 0▼ 0

Really did not like that one myself.

However, Bloodlands is very much on the list of things to read.

@Harry▲ 0▼ 0

does not 'Bloodlands' cover the later times like 1937-1953 - it's what professional reviews state on the internet

@gumishu▲ 0▼ 0

1933-1944, as far as I know. But still well worth reading. Mila 18, from memory, has very little to say about the Battle of Warsaw.

@Harry▲ 0▼ 0

Absolutely nothing to say about the Battle of Warsaw,its about the Warsaw Ghetto, as I mentioned earlier I bought some books for my friends 17 year old son to get an understanding of Poland around the war period.

@Wedle▲ 0▼ 0

Merged:

A project of Battle of Warsaw 1920 monument

I think that Triumphal arch would be a better option

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@Spike31▲ 0▼ 0

Who said she can`t??? Ukrainians have been fighting gallantly against Russian barbarians for nearly 3 years now.

They remind me of the Polish war effort in 1920 when we repelled the Russian Bolshevik invasion:

The poster of the time - Each household Our Fortress!
You can see a conscripted soldier of intelligence background, a peasant, a craftsman and a country woman who are defending their motherland against Russian barbarians

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@pawian▲ 0▼ 0

This picture with those russians who looked like zombies was cooler.

@Alien▲ 0▼ 0

Alien, stop meddling into my choices of pictures until the edit time is over. :):):) Russians are barbarians but not zombies yet. :):):)

@pawian▲ 0▼ 0

Intelligentsia, of course. His white cap suggests a university student.
All classes of the Polish society took to arms to repel Russian bolshevik imperialists.
Glory to noble defenders.

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@pawian▲ 0▼ 0

I don't see much difference.

@Alien▲ 0▼ 0

I do. Barbarians are still people while zombies aren`t.

@pawian▲ 0▼ 0

Russians are people already. Give them a chance to become decent people. On a day like today wonders do happen.

@pawian▲ 0▼ 0

So they will start speaking with a human voice? 🤔

@Alien▲ 0▼ 0

A scene from 1920 Warsaw Battle film showing the contribution of American pilots including the one who later made Kong Kong and flew a plane attacking the giant ape.



@pawian▲ 0▼ 0

"Gentlemen, we are too weak to defend. Therefore, we have to attack."

No matter if it was Piłsudski or Broniewski who actually said these words, they capture the spirit of the Battle of Warsaw remarkably well. Poland prevailed not by constructing an impregnable defense of Warsaw, but by refusing to fight the kind of defensive battle that its weakness seemed to dictate and conducting a bold offensive operation instead. Polish army seized the initiative at the moment when defeat appeared closest. The rest is history.

Today we celebrate the anniversary of this great battle...



@Torq▲ 0▼ 0

Poland was the Comeback Kid of wartime Europe! Admirable, despite numerous problems for post-War society.

@Lyzko9bda5804d1f▲ 0▼ 0

Pity the Ukrainians that fought alongside us to defend greatere Poland had to be betrayed after this great victory.

@amiga500▲ 0▼ 0

Piłsudski's political room for maneuver had largely collapsed by autumn 1920 and he longer controlled Polish foreign policy. Also, Ukraine was very weak and Poland exhausted after the war, so it was either the betrayal at the Treaty of Riga or continued war against the Soviet Union which the newborn and exhausted Polish state couldn't win.

Basically, Piłsudski made a promise that he wasn't able to keep. Pity indeed.

@Torq▲ 0▼ 0

It is doubtful Poland would be able to wrestle whole Ukraine and Belarus from the Bolshevik Russia, but could have liberated more land. For example Minsk was for the taking, Bolsheviks were ready to hand it to us during negotiations, but our cabinet and diplomats were not interested.

At this point Piłsudski still hoped to create a federation of allied Slavic nations that would form a bulwark against the Bolsheviks. Dmowski and his cronies on the other hand were all about a Polish nation state where Ukranians and Belarussians could at most be minorities, slowly integrated into the Polish nation. So they didn't want to burden themselves with too much land east and too numerous minority populations. In the end we resigned from Minsk and other potential lands and Poland became a much weaker country than it could have been as part of a new Commonwealth of Three Nations, a federation with Belarus and Ukraine.

@Korvinus▲ 0▼ 0

The problem was that they didn't like Poles either, just like they didn't like Russians. Poles were "Pany" to them.

@Alien▲ 0▼ 0

ong is this analien the dumbkest german person ever ???
the belarusians and the ukranianians were part of the nobility of the commonwealth and were members of parliament in the second repuplic. can someone give the kraut a good dose of pany, perhaps have a good draw of zyklon b, also give your daughters a drag. your traitor polish bloodline is exactly the one that needs to be wiped out after all our massacres.

@amiga500▲ 0▼ 0

Don't write under the influence of alcohol, because not only will you write nonsense, but your letters will also fall apart. No offense, it's just good advice from "Pan".

@Alien▲ 0▼ 0

oi analien check this out


@amiga500▲ 0▼ 0