Pol-Shorpy Photo Thread

@AntV
Szczyt wszystkiego

Of course. East Germans were, for some reason, very eager to intervene and among Czechs you could probably also find quite a few still bearing a grudge for 1968.

I too spoke to honourable people, who are all saying the same thing, and I have no reason not to believe them.

Whatever, they wanted or not, they wouldn't and couldn't do without Moscow's approval. So those troop movements are a moot point.
If the German Army had moved in, it would have been an escalation and what they were afraid of most of all that would lead to another uprising.


Maybe they are honorable but if they were regular officers in the commie army I'm rather skeptical as to their honor.
What I question is their political awareness. It is an easy excuse in a retrospective view. If not for us, there would have been some troops movement, the Germans would have moved in. Oh?! Really? You have done the right thing then... lol!

Really? Did those honorable people not strike you a bit being on the slow side?
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Not at all. All of them officers, one of them even with PhD in maths (former Colonel, lecturer at WAT). I definitely wouldn't call them slow. :)

Maybe not slow then but twisted.
lol!

Believe what you want, Iron, but think about this: if Jaruzelski was such a villain as you think, then why didn't he drown Solidarność in blood? He could easily have done that.

Why did he take the army out of their barracks, together with all their artillery, in December - they surely didn't fight Solidarność or Polish people; it would have been a massacre if that had been the plan.

That just doesn't make sense.

Pragmatism?
I see you returned to the old joke or a meme before the internet was invented - a picture of Stalin that gently pats children on their heads - and subtitles that say - Wow! What a Great dude, he could have killed them all! Yet he didn't!

@Torq
Cause the reds evolved and stepped away from it and Stalinism in general. They wanted to promise new and better times, not repeat mistakes of the past.

That's why these repressions were rather soft compared to what could had been done, a lot of it was also more about PR rather then practical policies or long-term goals.

WRONA wanted to stabilise and improve society by instilling discipline in the population and a soldier's way of life.

That's a guy born in 1990 informing you about, people in those times know that better then me for sure

@Iron @Grunni

Yes, sure. Or maybe (just maybe) the guy was a Polish patriot and his gambit worked. There are credible sources and plenty of witnesses still alive to support this version.

@Torq
His "Polish patriotism" type meant siding with the enemy (communists, devil's offspring)

So tell us, what's the benefit of selling your soul to the devil and still telling everyone what a good Christian you are? Do you not understand that it is just: "nonsense?"

He was too afraid to die, end of story.

That story doesn't hold water.

Jaruzelski was no coward. He fought on Eastern Front, weapon in hand - first line combat. Most people would sh*t themselves, break down and cry for their mums if they had to go through a quarter of what Jaruzelski was through.


There are people who didn't receive the gift of faith. They believe in neither God nor devil and they never will. The stories of devils and selling your soul are irrelevant to them; they want the good of their people and country here, on this earth.

Don't overdue it, it was a common experience for his generation.

Not irrelevant to me, I will never side with that traitor. He betrayed Poland, his brotherhood in blood, faith and comrades in arms.

He is the example of one of worst possible Polish nobleman. Yet you seek to praise him as an example? Be my guest! A hero of Europrovince 16.

I am sure politicians in Brussel will pay for such stories, in droves? I won't be that customer however!

Frontline combat in a line unit was not necessarily a common experience, and he was decorated for his performance on the battlefield. Not exactly behaviour of a coward (which Grunni was suggesting).


Nor to me, but we can't expect all people to follow our beliefs. You can be a patriot of Poland and an atheist. Moreover, back then there were many people who believed in communism; it would be unwise to accuse all of them of bad will or insincerity.


What nonsense.

Sounds like an oxymoron to me

Regardless, why would anybody really be concerned in any serious manner regarding Jaruzelski and his motivations claimed by him or others. There is European Union now, decisions will be made in Brussel from now on.

How life will in the area around Vistula river will be influenced the strongest by fashion and trends of technocrats in Brussels, what colours will fly, which people to give privileges to and why. Whom to honour and whom not to honour. Your vote, voice and body has been taken away. Blinded by hatred and disgust of PiS. Poland has been sold away. For what? A budget? Control? Tone of voice in the media? Silence?

Your hope is what I find nonsensical and absurd, I pity the Polish people.

Small pearl: 2023



Not only big agglomerations of Poland are worth visiting, there are also many pearls among smaller cities and towns. Sandomierz, a city of merely 21,500 people, hides many secrets and treasures...

polskapogodzinach.pl/sandomierz-atrakcje-turystyczne/

It only became clear it was a "failure", towards 87-88 and onwards. In 1981 the Soviet Union, could boast of achieving all its goals in Afghanistan. A masterful special operation, had neutralized the previous government with minimal bloodshed. Socialist government was installed across the country, and aid was pouring in.

The CIA and the Arabs only really "turned on" much later.

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Regarding Jaruzelski, in the book from which I was paraphrasing different parts of his biography, everything Kania said is confirmed from the Soviet side. The book is Russian, and to some extent benefits from Soviet archival resources which I am not sure the author of Kania's book had access to.

1981 was the last year before Brezhnev's death. According to the so called "Brezhnev Doctrine", the type of things happening in Poland were to be promptly suppressed. However, Andropov (yes, Lord Voldemort himself), Suslov, and Jaruzelski convinced Brezhnev that it was a terrible idea.

Without the voice of Jaruzelski, some sympathetic members of the Politburo, and his wild gambit whereby he took all the men out of the barracks, Solidarity would have been crushed.

But you see, for some people no matter how many proofs, documents, books, eye-witness testimonies etc. there are, they will still cling to their hatred; that's what they felt their whole life, that's what they built their identity on, so they're not going to abandon it just like that only because of some silly things like facts or truth.


...and yet, they keep hating him all the same. You know this old saying: "every good deed must be properly punished".

Give 'em hell, boys!: 1920



Commander-in-chief, marshal Józef Piłsudski, watches his infantry units marching to the front of Polish-Bolshevik war to defend Poland's newly regained independence.

It was crushed one way or another. The result was the same. So what is different?
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Sure, but at the time Soviet Union was fully engaged in Afghanistan and it was not wise to stretch resources intervening in Poland. That would also further endanger political stability and the balance of power between the two blocks.

why risk it all if you have your loyal people in Poland doing your bidding?
Isn't that obvious?
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I don't hate him. You on the other hand couldn't find a better father figure than some old borekn commie, who was as much a Polish stateman as Mugamba.

The Lion Has Landed: 2010



If there is one thing that Poles can appreciate, it is courage.

A huge cloud of volcanic dust covered the skies over Europe shortly before the funeral of president Lech Kaczyński, causing most scheduled flights all over the continent to be cancelled. Overwhelming majority of invited guests called off their visits but the Prime Minister of Morocco, the Most Honourable Abbas El Fassi, was having none of it. He ordered the pilot of a small Cessna 560 to take off from Rabat and fly at a low attitude, below the volcanic dust. He landed in Cracow, to the amazement of Balice Airport authorities and air traffic controllers, as the first foreign guest.

Nothing's forgotten, Moroccan Lion. Nothing's forgotten...

Nobody remembers about it anymore, and nobody in Poland really wants Moroccans. It's a pity.

I do. And rest assured, I'm not the only one.


What?

Not all was hostile between the USSR and Poland in the 1930s.

Caption on the photo reads:

"The Polish port of Gdynia was visited by a Soviet naval squadron. Soviet sailors also visited Warsaw. In the photo: Commander of Baltic Fleet, Comrade Haller, being greeted at Warsaw Train Station."

I can add a little bit of history, re: Haller...

Lev Mikhailovich Haller - naval officer, from 1932 to 1937 - commander of the Baltic Fleet. In 1947, together with admirals N.G. Kuznetsov and others, was put on trial in a "court of honor" on charges that in 1942-1944 they allegedly handed over to Great Britain and the United States materials on a secret torpedo design, samples of these weapons, maps of two islands, and a map of the southern coast of Kamchatka. The Court of Honor found them guilty and transferred the case to the Military Collegium of the Supreme Court of the USSR. In 1948 he was sentenced to 4 years in prison. At the beginning of 1950 he was placed in the Kazan psychiatric hospital of the Ministry of Internal Affairs, where he died on July 12.

@Bobko

Very interesting, thank you!

This is a bit strange though...


... four years for espionage, as a high rank officer, during war? The judge was rather lenient there, wasn't he?

Seems less than two years was enough for them to break his mind. Then in another few months of being in the loony bin, he "died".

Soviet prisons were no picnic. Most Gulag sentences were less than ten years, but it may as well have been 40 in terms of the toll on the health and mind.

Hmm... I suppose.

Did he eat something indigestible?

Polish synth pop legends: 1984



Papa Dance were an interesting phenomenon on Polish music scene in the 80s. Some people considered them kings of kitsch, others were hardcore fans. I, being a man of simple taste and simple pleasures, belonged to the latter group.



All my childhood I thought they sang "Dwa dni, dwa dni na Tobie" at the beginning of the song. I was so disilussioned when I realised, much later in life, what the real lyrics were.

I do not know them. Back then I was listening to Dżem or at most Lady Punk.