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Kielce Pogrom - new findings by IPN


gumishu 12 | 6,045
7 Jul 2015 #1
According to IPN (National Institute of Historical Memory) Kielce Pogrom was inspired and largely executed by communist security services NKWD and UB

jewish.org.pl/index.php/en/wiadomopci-mainmenu-57/1733-ipn-pogrom-kielecki-bys-prowokacjp-.html
jon357 71 | 20,328
7 Jul 2015 #2
Indeed - distracting from issues around the election was why the Poles in Kielce did it.

That and a vodka fuelled frenzy.
Harry
7 Jul 2015 #3
1733-ipn-pogrom-kielecki-bys-prowokacjp

Not Found

Put WWW. at the start
PLSK
7 Jul 2015 #4
Now it's time for new archeological digs in Jedwabne.
Harry
7 Jul 2015 #5
Kielce Pogrom - new findings by IPN

That article is from 2008. In what way is an article from seven years ago "new findings"?

According to IPN (National Institute of Historical Memory)

That article quotes a couple of blokes who sometimes (seven years ago) worked with the IPN. Would you like to give us a source referring to a statement by the IPN which supports your claim?
jon357 71 | 20,328
7 Jul 2015 #6
Now it's time for new archeological digs in Jedwabne.

Nowhere near Kielce and excavated recently.

That article quotes a couple of blokes who sometimes (seven years ago) worked with the IPN. Would you like to give us a source referring to a statement by the IPN which supports your claim?

Exactly. Looks like the OP is trying to shift the blame onto other people, when the facts have been very carefully analysed.
OP gumishu 12 | 6,045
7 Jul 2015 #7
when the facts have been very carefully analysed

by whom? by yourself? what facts do you actually know about the event?
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
7 Jul 2015 #8
inspired and largely executed by communist security services NKWD and UB

That's not surprising. They knew that would divert world attetnion from the regime's shenangins. The NKVD/UB presence by that time was so ubiquitous that no grass-roots eruption would have been possible unless it served the regime's purpsoes.

Moderated
Harry
7 Jul 2015 #9
what facts do you actually know about the event?

I know that it happened in 1946. So when a person speaks about events in Kielce "62 years ago", we can deduce that he is speaking in 2008. Why are you trying to claim that an article from seven years ago "new findings"?
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
8 Jul 2015 #10
I know that it happened in 1946.

Since that's all you know, you need to be clued in. The so-called Kielce pogrom was engineered by the Soviet-installed commie regime to divert international opinion away from their rigged "3 x TAK" referendum. Moscow had its embassies, spies and sleepers world-wide and knew that any attack on Jews so soon after the Holocaust would spark an international outrage. The presence of Polish and Soviet security troops in the area of the Jewish émigré centre who did nothing to stop the attack is the best proof thereof. Then again, who knows who the attackers were? Or who the security troops were for that mattter. You can dress anyone in a uniform or plainclothes as required. A few were put on trial but the whole thing was one big sham.
jon357 71 | 20,328
8 Jul 2015 #11
So when a person speaks about events in Kielce "62 years ago"

Exactly. The perpetrators were identified too. Anti-Jewish feeling in Kielce needed little or no provocation :-(
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
8 Jul 2015 #12
Anti-Jewish feeling in Kielce

Esepcially after the regime's goons spread the rumour that a Polish boy had been kidnapped by Jews.
pawian 189 | 18,855
7 Feb 2022 #13
largely executed by communist security services NKWD and UB

Sad that other Poles who saw it did nothing to stop those nasty provocateurs and prevent their crimes. Even worse, Polish antisemites helped communist agents chase Jews all over Kielce and surrounding areas.
Lyzko 33 | 8,284
7 Feb 2022 #14
What concerns many historians is that Kielce occurred even AFTER WWII, by the time Hitler was already confirmed dead and the Nazis had been defeated!

Where then was the impetus to continue killing Jews?
OP gumishu 12 | 6,045
7 Feb 2022 #15
What concerns many historians is that Kielce occurred even AFTER WWII, by

you haven't read the initial post - please do, it will clarify a couple of things
pawian 189 | 18,855
7 Feb 2022 #16
please do, it will clarify a couple of things

Yes, you mentioned communist provocation. Yet, you still should explain why there were so many ordinary Polish antisemites who chased Jews all over the city and its vicinities. Where did they come from?
OP gumishu 12 | 6,045
7 Feb 2022 #17
just read the article on the incident in Polish wikipedia, it will give you a lot of insight
pawian 189 | 18,855
7 Feb 2022 #18
No, you tell us. Is it true those antisemites wanted to get rid of Jews who were returning from camps and claimed their properties, confiscated by Germans?
OP gumishu 12 | 6,045
7 Feb 2022 #19
Jews who were returning from camps and claimed their properties,

it is possible indeed - however that's not how the whole thing started
Lyzko 33 | 8,284
7 Feb 2022 #20
The Duda administration's trying to successfully disqualify such future claims as unjustified.
@gumishu, can't quite see the point of your post. To be sure, many Communists were indeed antisemites as well, but we already knew that.
OP gumishu 12 | 6,045
7 Feb 2022 #21
The Duda administration's trying to successfully disqualify such future claims as unjustified.

huh? could you rephrase it so I could actually understand it
Novichok 3 | 7,461
7 Feb 2022 #22
many Communists

Semites are overrepresented in all things communist. In Poland, Jew, communist, and UB were synonyms.
pawian 189 | 18,855
7 Feb 2022 #23
In Poland, Jew, communist

If you stayed in Poland till 1968, you would see how communists treated Jewish Poles. You had been lucky you got your passport earlier.
Lyzko 33 | 8,284
8 Feb 2022 #24
@gumishu,
The current administration has forthrightly decided NOT to review any further compensation (restytucja) claims from the present forward!
The government feels, rightly or wrongly, that Israel aka the Jews, survivors and their families are trying to bleed Poland dry and are making specious claims used solely for their own greed.

In my opinion, this is unconscionable, blaming all legitimate Holocaust survivors for the criminal excesses of a few who indeed falsified their past for financial gain.

This is the same thinking as rogue author Normal Finkelstein's assertion of a "Holocaust industry". Such is a punch in the face to all survivors who were forced to endure the unimaginable.
Miloslaw 14 | 4,441
8 Feb 2022 #25
Such is a punch in the face to all survivors who were forced to endure the unimaginable

You are exaggerating as usual!

The government feels, rightly or wrongly, that Israel aka the Jews, survivors and their families are trying to bleed Poland dry

That is exactly what they are doing.
Lyzko 33 | 8,284
8 Feb 2022 #26
√Čt tu, Brute? You're siding with the enemy as well, I see.
Novichok 3 | 7,461
8 Feb 2022 #27
how communists treated Jewish Poles.

I wonder why... Do you know?
I did notice your uncharacteristic selection of the adjective. Good move.
Oathbreaker 4 | 494
9 Feb 2022 #28
@Lyzko

Where then was the impetus to continue killing Jews?

Again ignoring realities...
1945-1953 was a civil war going on in Poland which is hardly documented cause communists tried to portray it as if "everything is under control" you think it's without reason there were more NKVD units in Poland post ww2 then in occupied Germany?

People were starving, without homes, fighting for scraps yet your putting expectations as if the situation was like in modern day Poland today.

At that time most people didn't give a hoot if the person they were robbing, beating or even killing was, Polish, Jewish, German, Ukrainian, Soviet or any identification basically... It's called desperation!

What's so difficult to understand? You think Poles were having some cozy naptime while Jews were shipped into trains? Think again! Situation in Poland wasn't like France during or after ww2!
OP gumishu 12 | 6,045
9 Feb 2022 #29
rogue author Normal Finkelstein's

heh that tells a thing or two - Norman Finkelstein is a son of holocaust survivors btw

as far as I can remember you said once that the Germans built the Holocaust machine in Poland because Poles were somehow assisting them to kill Jews (while there were instances of such it was FAAAR from universal - read the Secret City by Gunnar Paulsson - it tells the story of Jews in Warsaw during the WWII)
Lyzko 33 | 8,284
9 Feb 2022 #30
@gumishu,
scarcely a justification, is it?

@Oathbreaker,
Jews were always in the crossfire, political footballs, easily expendable, right?
Come on, man! We expect more of our fellow beings.
Being human means "even when it hurts"!!


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