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Digital reconstruction of Warszawa - Miasto Ruin - rebuilding the destroyed Warsaw


pgtx 30 | 3,156
28 Jul 2010 #1
that's worth to see: world's first digital reconstruction of the destroyed city...

miastoruin.pl

it starts in the Warsaw Uprising Museum in Warsaw on August 1st, 2010...
1944.pl/o_muzeum/news/miasto_ruin

Address:
MUZEUM POWSTANIA WARSZAWSKIEGO
ul. Grzybowska 79
00-844 Warszawa
tel.: +48 22 539 79 05, +48 22 539 79 06
Paulina 10 | 1,733
28 Jul 2010 #2
Thanks for the link, pgtx!

it starts in the Warsaw Uprising Museum in Warsaw on August 1st, 2010...

I was in the museum not so long ago when I visited Warsaw... What a shame I missed it, they could do it earlier, pfff ;)))
PennBoy 76 | 2,436
28 Jul 2010 #3
world's first digital reconstruction of the destroyed city...

Russia's War Blood Upon the Snow is a great 10 part 43 min. each, series, showing the war on the eastern front not just Hitler's crimes but also Stalin's, including Warsaw Uprising.

youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=fzXS7Neqb1Y
user56 - | 2
29 Jul 2010 #4
Will I be able to see this film online once it is released?
OP pgtx 30 | 3,156
30 Jul 2010 #5
it's only 5 minutes long... probably on youtube...

The film lasts 5 minutes and 6 seconds: exactly the same amount of time needed for a World War II plane to circle the centre of Warsaw.

thenews.pl/national/artykul135733_city-of-ruins-animates-destruction-of-warsaw-following-ww-ii.html
Barney 15 | 1,476
30 Jul 2010 #6
Some more stills

plejada.pl/15776,1,2,miasto-ruin-kadry-z-filmu,fotogaleria.html
Click image to enlarge
Czarnkow1940 5 | 95
1 Aug 2010 #7
that's worth to see:

Will the museum be the only place to see this?
f stop 25 | 2,513
21 Sep 2010 #8
here is some more:


OP pgtx 30 | 3,156
21 Sep 2010 #9
thanks f stop.... it's pretty sad to watch... :(
Harry
21 Sep 2010 #10
Is it only me who utterly fails to see the point of this cartoon?
FlaglessPole 4 | 669
21 Sep 2010 #11
evidently,
if I were to show you a footage depicting the victims of Hlodomor and say 'hmm gee is there a point to showing some dead peasants who apparently couldn't figure out how to use pesticides', how would you feel?
Harry
21 Sep 2010 #12
evidently

There are already photographs available for anybody who wants to see what 1945 Warsaw looked like: there is no need to produce an artist's impression!

I also note that the film stays well away from sensitive areas (such as the sites of MDM and PKiN).
FlaglessPole 4 | 669
21 Sep 2010 #13
There are already photographs available for anybody who wants to see what 1945 Warsaw looked like: there is no need to produce an artist's impression!

why not, if an artist feels like it and is inspired by the actual photos, what's there to stop him from his 3D rendering if it happens to be his media?? that is exactly what artists do, historical events have proven to be very inspirational to great many of them.
Harry
21 Sep 2010 #14
Producing 'artistic impressions' when there are factual photographs simply encourages the (inaccurate) belief that Poles lie about history. This is even more of a problem when one remembers that the people who paid for this particular cartoon are Polish tax-payers (i.e. me and you).
FlaglessPole 4 | 669
21 Sep 2010 #15
what's that got to do with Warsaw Uprising?? I understand your beef with now-days western Ukraine but Warsaw???? You seem to be overreacting. (btw I am not a Polish tax-payer)
Paulina 10 | 1,733
21 Sep 2010 #16
Producing 'artistic impressions' when there are factual photographs simply encourages the (inaccurate) belief that Poles lie about history.

I don't think I've ever come across such a twisted logic as yours... O_O
f stop 25 | 2,513
21 Sep 2010 #17
Producing 'artistic impressions' when there are factual photographs simply encourages the (inaccurate) belief that Poles lie about history.

I'm baffled, too. It actually bothers you that this simulation was made? Because we should look at old pictures instead?
Harry
23 Sep 2010 #18
Why make a recreation when the real thing is available?

And why doesn't the film show the parts of central Warsaw that were demolished by Poles?
pawian 177 | 14,562
23 Sep 2010 #19
Producing 'artistic impressions' when there are factual photographs simply encourages the (inaccurate) belief that Poles lie about history.

It reminds me of a letter sent to a Newsweek magazine in 1980s. A guy complained that the cover displayed a photo of real life jet fighters with bar codes drawn on their noses, as an illustration to tan article about armament sale. He accused Newseek of falsifying the reality.

I thought then: Nuts? :):):):)

Why make a recreation when the real thing is available?

Because we live in 21 century, that is why. Black and white photos were good for 20th century.

And why doesn't the film show the parts of central Warsaw that were demolished by Poles?

Because showing parts demolished by Germans already took 5 minutes of the film and they had a tight budget.
harry, don`t you understand such simple issues?

It seems to me you are trying to replace Constantine now....
OP pgtx 30 | 3,156
23 Sep 2010 #20
Black and white photos were good for 20th century.

that's Harry's era...
;)
pawian 177 | 14,562
23 Sep 2010 #21
Has Harry changed substantially or my impression is wrong? Probably I have been absent for too long to notice it....
Gregrog 4 | 100
23 Sep 2010 #22
Harry, what artistic impression? This short movie was based on real footage taken soon after the war and it is compilation of this photos. It is only show in new, XXI century way of 3D. Your reaction only show that you hate when somebody tries to remember what Germans did 65 years ago. It is silly, simple silly.

You have accused Poles of faking history or something like that. I'm not sure if I understand correctly. So you disagree that Germans are responsible for total destruction on Warsaw? You said that we demolished big part of the city... I have question: how something can be demolished, when it was razed to the ground before?
Harry
24 Sep 2010 #23
Harry, what artistic impression? This short movie was based on real footage

Yes it is based on real footage: the artist took the real footage and photos and then added his interpretation for the rest. It is therefore an artistic impression.

It is only show in new, XXI century way of 3D.

Please don't lie: the film is not in 3D.

Your reaction only show that you hate when somebody tries to remember what Germans did 65 years ago.

Thanks for that. Unfortunately it's just another of your lies: I remember what the Germans did every day (not surprising given that I leave/enter the former ghetto three times on my way to work).

You have accused Poles of faking history or something like that.

And yet another lie from you. I actually said "the (inaccurate) belief that Poles lie about history."

So you disagree that Germans are responsible for total destruction on Warsaw?

Yes. If you want to prove me wrong, tell me what happened to the town houses in the area where the MDM development now is. Tell me what happened to the easily repairable houses in the photos you posted. Tell me what happened to the houses along Marszalkowska opposite PKiN.

I have question: how something can be demolished, when it was razed to the ground before?

I have a question: when were you last at the optician? The photos you posted clearly show that buildings were damaged, not razed to the ground.
Gregrog 4 | 100
24 Sep 2010 #24
Producing 'artistic impressions' when there are factual photographs simply encourages the (inaccurate) belief that Poles lie about history.

Sorry, I misunderstood you... but now I have other problem. How can such a project, reserch, lead to this belief? Using your logic, anything we will do, war movie, cartoon, scratching ass, will be artistic impression and will show us as liars. Funny, because I have never heard accusation of producers of Stalingrad(1993) and thousands of other projects of lying as it was artistic impression. Only when Poles want to show how Warsaw looked like soon after the war there is problem.

It is therefore an artistic impression.

If you want call it artistic impression, you are free to do it, but it doesn't change fact that what we can see it real image of the city back to that times. Impression or not most of it is true and has great educational valour. It is hard to imagine the whole picture when you are watching just a few of pictures... and I don't think anybody has enough time to look at each of thousands of pictures. For most people it is better and easier to watch 6 min move.

Please don't lie: the film is not in 3D

Yes it is, it's easy to see it when the plane(camera) fly over bigger buildings.

Yes. If you want to prove me wrong, tell me what happened to the town houses in the area where the MDM development now is.

I don't know what MDM is but answer is simpe: the ruins was demolished. After the war architects and commies decided to change the city plan. Quite easy when there's no inhabitants and cost of restoring of most of the buildings was too high.

The photos you posted clearly show that buildings were damaged, not razed to the ground.

As far as I remember only Sobibór can be name as "razed to the ground" if we want to talk about exact meaning of the words... but language is not always as exact as you want. And no, I don't need optician. I see good enough to not see roofs at most of the houses etc.

But what are we talking about here? What happened after the war, during rebuilding Warsaw isn't topic here. We are talking how Warsaw looked like after German presence in the city. This "cartoon" clearly shows it.
Harry
24 Sep 2010 #25
Using your logic, anything we will do, war movie, cartoon, scratching ass, will be artistic impression and will show us as liars

The point is that there is no need to produce artist's impressions: there are real images that show this already!

Yes it is, it's easy to see it when the plane(camera) fly over bigger buildings.

No. It uses 3D rendering. It is not in 3D. If it was, you'd need special glasses to view it and you clearly don't.

I don't know what MDM is but answer is simpe: the ruins was demolished.

There's not a vast amount of point trying to discuss the twentieth century history of Warsaw with somebody who doesn't even know what MDM is. But anyway pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marsza%C5%82kowska_Dzielnica_Mieszkaniowa

The ruins? Much of the housing in that area survived the war and was pretty much inhabitable. However, it was all pulled down to make way for the new development. As for cost, which would have cost more: repairing the surviving structures or building PKiN?

As far as I remember only Sobibór can be name as "razed to the ground" if we want to talk about exact meaning of the words... but language is not always as exact as you want.

No, the area of the former ghetto was raised to the ground (taken down to the level no higher than the bottom of the ground floor windows was the exact order). The rest of Warsaw suffered far more from Verbrennungskommando than from Vernichtungskommando (the latter focused their post-uprising efforts on buildings of historical or cultural significance.

We are talking how Warsaw looked like after German presence in the city. This "cartoon" clearly shows it.

Not as clearly as real images do.
poland_
24 Sep 2010 #26
However, it was all pulled down to make way for the new development

MDM is an acronym meaning Marszalkowska Dzielnica Mieszkaniowa (Marszalkowska Residential Area). This neigborhood, which is in fact a jewel of Socialist Realist style was built in 1950-52, and was supposed to prove the growing power of Communism. That's why it's monumental, like the pre-war German architecture of light and space, and full of symbolic statues representing farm workers, miners, teachers and the like. The focal point of the neighborhood is Plac Konstytucji (Constitution Square).

He is correct, there are a lot of pre-war buildings in the area, down as far as ul flory and Bagatela,
Gregrog 4 | 100
24 Sep 2010 #27
The point is that there is no need to produce artist's impressions: there are real images that show this already!

Let me quote myself:

It is hard to imagine the whole picture when you are watching just a few of pictures..

No. It uses 3D rendering. It is not in 3D. If it was, you'd need special glasses to view it and you clearly don't.

This is 3D - Three-Dimensional Graphics - which is part of computer graphic used to show Three-Dimensional objects on the screen of your PC. You are talking about 3D effect in cinema.

pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grafika_tr%C3%B3jwymiarowa
pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Film_3D

Sorry for links in polish, but the images there are enough to understand that I'm correct... and you too. But this cartoon is in 3D as NFS, Gothic, Counter Strike is.

There's not a vast amount of point trying to discuss the twentieth century history of Warsaw with somebody who doesn't even know what MDM is.

Too stupid sentence to be discussed.

As for cost, which would have cost more: repairing the surviving structures or building PKiN?

You said that you won't discus with person who don't know what MDM is and then you are putting such funny question? Are you really don't know why and on what occasion PKiN was build? If Papa Stalin wanted, PKiN would stand on the place of Royal Castle and can't imagine veto about this.

No, the area of the former ghetto was raised to the ground

You were exact so I will be even more: it wasn't. The level of ground wasn't at "the bottom of the ground floor windows" but about 1m lower. By this logic ghetto wasn't razed to the ground. It silly but it's you who wanted to be exact.

Of course ghetto was razed to the ground using "poetry" meaning.

The rest of Warsaw suffered far more from Verbrennungskommando than from Vernichtungskommando (the latter focused their post-uprising efforts on buildings of historical or cultural significance.

Does it change something?

Not as clearly as real images do.

It will show far more clear. Compare quality of aerial photos which I prepared for PKiN using Google Eart with the movie.
Harry
24 Sep 2010 #28
But this cartoon is in 3D as NFS, Gothic, Counter Strike is.

It uses 3D rendering, it is not in 3D.

Too stupid sentence to be discussed.

If you don't even know the name (in Polish) of arguably the most significant post-war development in Warsaw, you're unlikely to know enough to have a discussion about the post-war history of Warsaw.

If Papa Stalin wanted, PKiN would stand on the place of Royal Castle and can't imagine veto about this.

Nice use of the Nuremberg defence. Unfortunately claiming "We only destroyed those buildings because the Communist leadership told us to" is as valid a defence as it was when people claimed "We only murdered those Jews because the Nazi leadership told us to". But even if it was a valid defence, it still wouldn't change the fact that it was Poles who demolished an entire city block after the war.

It silly but it's you who wanted to be exact.

Do try reading my entire posts (although seeing as you selectively quoted, I guess you did read it all). I said "taken down to the level no higher than the bottom of the ground floor windows was the exact order". If you look at real photos of the ghetto, you'll see the real situation in 1945.

Verbrennungskommando Vernichtungskommando

Does it change something?

Yes: Verbrennungskommando did not destroy buildings; Vernichtungskommando did. These are things that you'd know if you knew enough about Warsaw to try and talk about the place.
jon357 67 | 16,836
22 Apr 2016 #29
Merged: How postwar Warsaw was rebuilt using 18th century paintings

A good article in The Guardian's "Stories of Cities" series:

When Warsaw's Old Town was destroyed by Hitler's troops in the second world war, the nation mobilised to rebuild the city with the rubble of its own destruction - and the work of Italian painter Bernardo Bellotto

theguardian.com/cities/2016/apr/22/story-cities-warsaw-rebuilt-18th-century-paintings





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