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Current Polish-Russian relations.. What do the Poles think? What about PiS?



gregy741 3 | 1,077    
15 May 2016  #31

he does what he has to..in most cases he was pushed to do what he does..i think is more reactionary than imperialistic behaviour.

see Chechen war and foreign sponsored mercenaries,or Georgia war ,or slathering russian population in ukraine was result of nato and eu meddling in ukraine.i f he left those provocation and open hostility unanswered he would face same things in russia


delphiandomine 80 | 15,938    
15 May 2016  #32

in most cases he was pushed to do what he does

Please, stop being a Putin apologist.
pweeg3    
15 May 2016  #33

Putin wants to recreate the Russian/Soviet Empire, hes gone on record as claiming that the collapse of the Soviet Union was a disaster.

The line that Russia is being 'pushed' into invading his neighbours is an excuse for rebuilding the Empire.

Russia that walks freely into countries and takes bits that it wants is not the kind of neighbour you want to have.

The reason why Russia does that is because any country with a border dispute is ineligible for NATO membership, and Russia is military unable to occupy any country in it entirety.
delphiandomine 80 | 15,938    
15 May 2016  #34

The reason why Russia does that is because any country with a border dispute is ineligible for NATO membership

Surely that's not true? Croatia and Slovenia had a border dispute for years (from what I remember, there's an ex-Yugoslavian army base under Slovenian control despite being located in Croatia), Croatia and Montenegro have a dispute over Prevlaka, Spain and the UK have a dispute over Gibraltar, etc etc...
Ironside 43 | 8,206    
15 May 2016  #35

I personally think that Poland and Russia ought to really reconcile

You are entitled to your opinion but as a matter of fact that opinion doesn't translate into reality.
In fact Russia doesn't have anything substantial to offer and peruse policies of their predecessors.

and whats unusual or wrong for leader of country wanting to make his country more influential?is that makes Russia "imperialistic monster".lol

If a said country tramples on Poland's toes in the process that is wrong. If at the same time such a country has nothing to offer in a terms of cultural or economical advancement but stick to that old Assyrian style of domination such outdated and backwoods ideas make to be such a country 'an imperialistic monster'.
gregy741 3 | 1,077    
15 May 2016  #36

but stick to that old Assyrian style of domination suchoutdated and backwoods ideas make to be such a country 'an imperialistic monster'.

remind me ,what economical and cultural and enlighten thingies Poland and US offered to Iraq after illegal and criminal invasion.or any country nato invaded.

russia at least can say,it is defending its crutial interest and security threats and russian people(in case of ukraine)
pweeg3    
15 May 2016  #37

Surely that's not true?

Non-peaceful dispute. rferl.org/content/article/1099020.html

russian people(in case of ukraine)

Starting a war in the name of citizens of a neighbouring country is not defence. Russia has absolutely no right to invade Ukraine.

The invasion of Iraq was equally illegal, but thats not justification for Russia actions - which were worst as it was conquering land for the purpose of expanding an Imperial Empire
gregy741 3 | 1,077    
15 May 2016  #38

Starting a war in the name of citizens

Russia didnt start civil war in Ukraine-you lie

Russia has absolutely no right to invade Ukraine

protecting russian people and historical right to Crimea.and crimean people selfdetermination( is a cardinal principle in modern international law where people have the right to freely choose their sovereignty and international political status)

The invasion of Iraq was equally illegal

no no equal.remind me who Poland and US were defending there?what historically justified land belong to Poland in Iraq?
Russia actions are fully justified and even more-they were quite moderate.cant imagine what US would do if US citizens were being murder by thousands in lets say Mexico
Grzegorz_ 52 | 6,247    
15 May 2016  #39

Russia actions are fully justified

I beg to differ, however it's clear that "the west" doesn't give a flying feck about Ukraine, they just use it as one of cards in their game with Russia. One day they will strike a deal with Putin and in exchange for something else, will throw Ukraine under the bus. Similarly, one can see how the west is using "Russian threat" to pressure Central Europe on many thing. Buy Patriot batteries, accept "refugees" & German controlled EU superstate etc. or else big evil Russia will come and eat you alive.
delphiandomine 80 | 15,938    
15 May 2016  #40

Russia didnt start civil war in Ukraine-you lie

Ah, Gregy's true colours reveal himself to be a Russian sympathiser. Funny how many of these self-proclaimed "patriots" actually long for the embrace of Mother Russia again.

protecting russian people and historical right to Crimea.and crimean people selfdetermination

Strange, I don't remember you supporting the right of the Germans in Poland to self determination.

Russia actions are fully justified and even more-they were quite moderate

Yep, that's you definitely outed as yet another pro-Russian troll. How much is the Kremlin paying you?
mafketis 16 | 4,668    
15 May 2016  #41

Funny how many of these self-proclaimed "patriots" actually long for the embrace of Mother Russia again.

PiS types chafe under Russian rule but at least life makes sense to them then. They get to be eternal victims, responsible for nothing. The idea of a Poland that is not being victimized scares them to death. The could forgive Russia for Smolensk (if we pretend for a moment that Russia engineered it) but they could never forgive the EU and NATO for offering Poland a place at the table of nations that are responsible for themselves.
gregy741 3 | 1,077    
15 May 2016  #42

Strange, I don't remember you supporting the right of the Germans in Poland to self determination.

nothing strange..no such thread i found here..and i assure you i would support german rights in Poland as long as they are historically and ethically justifiable.if i was leader in pre war Poland i would let Germany to build motorway and hand em over Gdansk-even tho Gdansk was part of Poland for far longer and was founded by poles.i would never chose war over some city if people of this city doesnt want to be polish-let em go

PiS types chafe under Russian rule

PIS type are obsessed antyrussian idiots,like waszczykowski and Macierewicz.am sick of historical grieviances obsessions and paranoia.

The idea of a Poland that is not being victimized scares them to death

The could forgive Russia for Smolensk

??????????????
Ironside 43 | 8,206    
15 May 2016  #43

what economical and cultural and enlighten thingies Poland and US offered to Iraq after illegal and criminal invasion.or any country nato invaded.

Those countries were ruled in authoritarian tyrannical manner not due to consensus of the majority but due to the oppression by the minority. I'm not saying that chaos that came with NATO/USA intervention is better but if you're looking for justification you can always find one.

russia at least can say,it is defending its crutial interest and security threats and russian people(in case of ukraine)

Maybe Poland should follow their suit and rise in defense of the oppressed Polish minority in Lithuania?
delphiandomine 80 | 15,938    
15 May 2016  #44

Maybe Poland then should follow their suit and rise in defense of the oppressed Polish minority in Lithuania?

Sure, if Poland wants to be invaded by NATO and risk having Russia take over parts of Poland during the chaos of such an intervention.

The Polish minority isn't repressed anyway, and most young Poles aren't infected with the idiotic nationalism of the elders.
Ironside 43 | 8,206    
15 May 2016  #45

The Polish minority isn't repressed anyway, and most young Poles aren't infected with the idiotic nationalism of the elders.

Sure they are!

Sure, if Poland wants to be invaded by NATO and risk having Russia take over parts of Poland during the chaos of such an intervention.

I have been sarcastic, maybe due to your plebian DNA you don't get sarcasm?
pweeg3    
15 May 2016  #46

Russia didnt start civil war in Ukraine-you lie

Russia actions are fully justified and even more-they were quite moderate.cant imagine what US would do if US citizens were being murder by thousands in lets say Mexico

Make up your mind, is Russia involved or not?

Those Russian citizens could very easily leave Ukraine, so why did they need protecting by Russia by an invasion and occupation? The Ukrainian citizen have every right to defend their country against Foreign invasion (as did Iraqi's for that matter). The Russian invasion force could, of course, leave Ukraine but they choose not to. They are not defending Russian Citizens, they are committing an armed invasion.

protecting russian people and historical right to Crimea.and crimean people selfdetermination( is a cardinal principle in modern international law where people have the right to freely choose their sovereignty and international political status)

No, No and Not when under control of a foreign power. The vote was not valid due to the presence of armed foreign troops.

Also, without international recognition, any Russian claim to Crimes is invalid. Its an Russian occupation, plain and simple.

PiS types chafe under Russian rule but at least life makes sense to them then.

If they support Russia, they aren't Polish. PiS are never going to be pro-Russia, they deserve credit for that.

If gregy741 is pro Russia, then he IS Russian, not PiS.
Crow 136 | 5,893    
16 May 2016  #47

Genetic experts says that Russians originate from Poles.
gumishu 10 | 4,445    
16 May 2016  #48

this is not true - however Slavs were once a gentically homogenic entity originated somewhere in the north Ukraine possibly in the swamps of the Pripyat' river - from there they expanded in a couple of directions initially and started to mix with indigenous populations where they expanded
smurf 39 | 2,011    
16 May 2016  #49

however Slavs were once a gentically homogenic entity originated somewhere in the north Ukraine possibly in the swamps of the Pripyat' river

Swamp people?
Like the Crannogmen in Game of Thrones?
gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/Crannogmen

Doesn't really make sense though, how can they be

gentically homogenic

yet originate in Ukraine, surely they came from somewhere, it's not like they jst dropped out of the sky

I know Wikipedia isn't really to be trusted but there's plenty here on who the Slavs came from
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_Slavs#Historiography
OP AdrianK9 6 | 432    :-(
16 May 2016  #50

So you're pro-Russia, then.

I guess you could say that in some ways. While I understand that Poland and Russia have a very complicated history and reconciling totally would most likely be impossible. However, I would like to see increased trade and decreased military rhetoric between the two countries.

Just because I admire Putin because he is a 'strongman' that the West is scared of and has improved the economic situation in Russia up until the invasion of Ukraine and the sanctions afterwards, does not mean that I want Poland to return back to Communism or the old system.

I simply wish for Poland not to be totally reliant economically on the west. Poland can certainly gain from trade with Russia. Also, I admire leaders that have the cajones to stand up to the west whether it's the Visegard 4, Russia, or even Iran - who is being wrongfully criticized over their nuclear program by the US, again due to certain lobbies and foreign interests.
jon357 67 | 12,680    
16 May 2016  #51

If they support Russia, they aren't Polish

Basically yes. Russia as a state is loathed here throughout society.
OP AdrianK9 6 | 432    :-(
16 May 2016  #52

Rubbish. The International community is still waiting for Serbia to apologise for it's War Crimes,

You mean the war crimes that were committed against the Serbs also right?.. Srebnica counts were found to be much much lower than they really are. Also, before July 1995 - Serbs were the ones massacred. Many Serbs were killed by Croats as well.

Why no apologies to the Serbs? They weren't the only wrongdoers. The fact is everyone was ethnically cleaning and massacring everyone else - the Croats massacred Serbs, the Serbs massacred Bosnians, the Bosnians massacred Croats, the Kosovar Alabanians killed Serb police, the Serbs would kill Kosovar citizens, it was a clusterfxck

reconcile with an imperialistic monster that is currently working to enlarge it's circle of influence? - for what sake? and how? by submission??

I'm not saying Poland should sign another Warsaw Pact. However, I do believe that Poland is relying a bit too much on the west. Poland is being used as a buffer state by the EU/NATO - that is a fact. Also, Polish farmers have lost a bit of money through lost sales to Russia. I believe that Poland could benefit from more trade with Russia.




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