70th anniversary of 1943 Wołyń/Volhynia and Eastern Galicia Massacre - controvercies

There was a chance for it in 1918-1920 but resurrected Poland was strong enough to repel Ukrainians and take control of Lviv and Western Ukraine..
Do you think Ukrainians of 1940s suffered from amnesia that they didn`t remember those events????

just watch like pawian will ignore that post, lol!
@pawian
How is the floor today? Soft? Sure thing is clean I wiped it with you very well.

Dispute?? AMaSSing attitude of nationalists like you to Polish prewar policy towards Ukrainians which was genocidal in nature - Ukrainian culture was to be eradicated and replaced with Polish one.
Is it a surprise that Ukrainian nationalists felt they had no other choice but to remove Polish colonisers in the most brutal way? Poles/Polesses had worked for such treatment for centuries of colonisation and polonisation of Western Ukraine.


No, why??? :):):)

do you even know what genocide means? there was a policy of forced assimilation towards the Ukrainian population of the then Poland but you have to have a lot of ill will to call it genocidal

Yes, cultural genicide is what Polish colonisers were doing in Ukraine.
Do you even know what it means???
Also, do you even know the notion was invented by a Polish Jew?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_genocide


Exactly. Cultural genocide. Thank you for admitting it.

ok I never heard about the term - anyway forced polonization policies were largely unsuccessful - and they were started only in the 30's - also as far as I know they never included banning of the use of the Ukrainian language in daily life

That what happened in Poland, the Soviets imposed a cultural genocide, and the end product look, talk and feel like pawian.
--

more excuses - you relly are sick!

That`s what I am here for! EDUCATION!!! Once a teacher, always a teacher! Hough!


No matter if they were or not. What matters is they took place. Ukrainians remembered them well. And they eventually took it out on Polish colonisers.


It wasn`t Polish benevolence. Banning the language was mission impossible at the time.

Check this map of prewar Poland - green shows Ukrainian language use.

• 
  Ukrainian_and_Ruthen.jpg
  

I think cultural genocide is much preferred to... well, genocide.

If you give me a choice between speaking Polish, or having a pitchfork inserted into my guts - I will always choose speaking Polish. Putin forgive me..

I committed cultural suicide in 1966 and love it. No Polish in my family. Period. No exceptions.

My respect for you would drop like a rock...Stay what you are.

Exactly!!! That`s why you are such a psycho today. Ha!!!! :):):)

He does not forget and does not forgive.

this is the most obscene, hatefull, and flat out insane excrement I have ever seen flow from pedowian crackhole and mouth.
Illogically he claims that for the only way for Ukraine to achieve independence was to genocide, massacre and ethnically cleanse poles and jews in lands that were historically populated by Ukrainians. The same opinion that OUN_B had, that the only way for Ukrainians to be free is to have an ethno-pure nation state free from Poles and Jews. By subscribing to these views he is adopting a neo-nazi fascist ideology. This scumbag is infinitely more of a eugenicist, master race guy than any right wing person on this forum.

The success of formations of an independent western ukranian state, both in 1918, 1939-1946 and 1989 had absolutely nothing do with the ultra fascist ideology of creating an ethno-state by mass murder and cleansing that OUN-B and UPA subscribed too. If Volyhn and Galicia genocide did not occur, Ukraine would still have gotten independence in 1989, arguably a lot better off with it's future with a large Polish minority.

The fact that Pedowian justifies genocide, mass murder, ethnic cleansing with new age woke ideologies is f*king disgusting.

Exhumation is compensation? is that what the lunatics Gazeta Wyborcza are writing these days?

Yes, it is disgusting to see that descendants of Polish colonisers of Ukraine are still in denial about their crimes.

Darling, the proper order of events is:
first Polish colonisers apologise to Ukrainians for centuries of oppression and cultural genocide, and then Ukrainians should agree to exhumations and other. And when they get mature enough as a nation, they will apologise too.

So, down on your knees, azholes, and start practising your apology now!
Or are you still too immature as a nation to be ready for such an act???

Indeed, vile nonsense by petty half-wits with sexual issues and mental dysfunctions.

As promised in the "Polish Aid to Ukraine" thread, I'm posting here the parts of the interview Radoslaw Sikorsky gave to Ukrainska Pravda, that cover the controversy around the Wolyn and Galicia massacres.

The translation is from a Ukrainian transcript, where I primarily used Google Translate, with additional minor corrections made by me.

The journalist's questions are italicized, and Sikorsky's answers are in bold.

Attaching link to the full video in English (it was conducted in English), below. Unfortunately, I could not find a ready made English transcript - so apologies for the lengthy copy-paste in lieu of a link.

1) - Finally, let's talk about history. Can we agree on a resolution to our dispute? Are we moving forward in our dialogue?

- Something really needs to happen - we need to stop playing politics on this issue.

There are painful moments in the history of every country. Every nation has done things that we are not very proud of. Here, every nation does things differently. But at the same time, it is a Christian duty to bury the dead.

I don't know how much Ukrainian society knows about what happened in Volyn. What happened was that the Ukrainian resistance of that time gave the order for an ethnic cleansing of the Polish population of Volyn. This ethnic cleansing took place due to large-scale massacres. Between 80 and 120 thousand people died, were killed.

Of course, there were Polish countermeasures. But the initiators were the Ukrainians, and the bulk of the victims were Polish residents of Volyn.

We do not want to make politics out of this. But for Poland, this is an acute political issue, because these Poles have descendants. The entire population of these territories was deported to Polish territory.

These people have relatives who vote in elections. Therefore, this is a political issue.

The victims of this massacre must be buried in a Christian manner. That is all we ask for.

2) - In Ukraine, Volyn is known. But there is another view: that this is a political dispute, although it should be dealt with by historians.

- Yes, when the victims are buried in a Christian manner, then it will be the historians' business. But first, they need to be exhumed and buried. Do you agree or not?

3) - I certainly cannot agree with the statements made in Poland that with Bandera and Shukhevych Ukraine will not become a member of the EU. History is complex, and for Ukrainians these people are heroes. Does this mean that if you stick to your position, and we stick to ours, then the road to the EU is closed for us?

- Each country has the right to its own interpretation of history.

That is why, for example, Poland and Germany created a commission to write history textbooks, in particular school textbooks, in which we and the Germans agree at least on the facts.

And the fact is that Bandera's organization - although I understand that he himself was in a concentration camp at the time - ordered the mass extermination of civilian Poles.

4) - The question is, can we get into the EU by glorifying these people?

- It is you who ask this question, not me.

And I say that you will need friends. You need them now. And you will need them in the process of joining the EU.

And we ask you to respect our dead. I do not think that is too much to ask.

My favorite part of this discussion, is when Sikorsky says "The bodies must be exhumed and properly buried. Do you agree, yes or no?"...

... and the Ukrainian journalist answers along the lines of "I certainly cannot agree that Bandera and Shukhevych are not heroes!".

Hehehehe, and then Pawian tries to sell me some sh*t about Russian imperial propaganda!

This is a journalist for "Ukrainska Pravda"! The most well respected newspaper in Ukraine! With a very liberal and pro-Western bias!

I did not find you a quote from some Banderite living in a cave under Lvov, but from one of the most "European" of "European" Ukrainians.

Know who you are dealing with - baboon...

They are probably the only country in Europe in which a Waffen SS unit is officially glorified as heroes.

Ukrainians will not allow the exhumations for a very simple reason - it would reveal the full scale and extent of their bestiality. Although when I say 'bestiality' I actually insult wild beast, because animals are not capable of such cruelty.

I'm not sure that that is the actual reason.

Personally, I think there are no bodies left there - I've said this in the past. Volyn and Galicia have been electing ultranationalist public officials since the early 90s. I wouldn't be surprised if they already "recycled" the dead bodies at some construction site.

However, that's just my personal conspiracist take.

In their public discourse amongst themselves, where they have less fear of being watched, still nobody ever mentions "fear of being embarrassed". Perhaps they should, but they don't.

Instead, the accent is always on "what will we get, if we allow them to come and exhume?".

It's what I wrote before, in regards to Ukrainians showing their true face by trying to engage in a "trade" over corpses.

They think, in their lumpen brain: "We let the Lyakhs take their bodies - they promise to help us get into the EU. Quid pro quo."

They don't understand how this makes them be in the same club as Hamas or Boko Haram. You know, as Pawian says - they need some more decades to mature as a state.

They see that Hezbollah can trade the corpse of a dead IDF soldier for 1,000 jihadists sitting in Israeli jails - and they think, "The Poles are also bleeding heart suckers, it would be foolish to forego asking for dividends from this trade."

Maybe they are even right... You saw what Sikorsky said - "These people have descendants... and they vote in elections. So the question is political."

That is, if it was a PO government which finally "bent" the Ukrainians to agree to the exhumations that would be a win for PO. If PO cannot achieve this, but PiS can - then it is a win for PiS. The Polish government could quietly promise the Ukrainians help in other departments, if the Ukrainians quietly agree to allow the exhumations.

So maybe their terrorist tactics are not so myopic as they seem.

I have a better idea:

1. Send an official request for full-scale exhumations. If there is no answer or if there's a refusal within two weeks, then lower the level of diplomatic relations.

2. Issue a second, more strongly worded, request. If there's another refusal, start long and thorough technical works on the Rzeszów-Lwów railway connection.

3. Issue a third, and final, request. If they refuse again, sever the diplomatic relations altogether stating that Poland has no interest of maintaining relations with European Hutu (although, as far as I know, Hutu do not oppose the burying of Tutsi bodies and the Rwanda genocide took place half a century after Volhyn genocide, so maybe we will have to find a different comparison or just say 'barbarians')

It's as simple as 1 ... 2 ... 3. If only Poland was ruled by Polish patriots and not a bunch of Muppets.

This is a good approach. Perhaps enough to make them start laying bricks in their underwear.

However... time has shown that there are only two groups the Ukrainians truly fear - the Americans and the Chinese. Everybody else, for them, are small peanuts. Trust me - I read their news enough. They think they can even bully Germans and French, through their retarded ambassadors or if necessary by employing Zelensky himself.

Naming, shaming, and humiliating is their diplomatic method of choice - except when Americans or Chinese are involved. With the Chinese it is especially humorous, because China is a nominal Russian ally (but also Ukraine's largest trade partner).

If the Poles alone begin twisting their arm, they'll get on a pedestal and start screaming:

"We are the Shield of Europe. The Beacon of Democracy. We suffer like the Christ on the cross, for the sins of Scholz and Kaczynski! BEHOLD - Poland is trying to extort us through railway embargoes! SHAME! SHAME! SHAME!"

What you really need to do, is to go talk to Grandpa Biden, and explain your position. Then allow Grandpa to talk to Zelensky. Then, suddenly, Zelensky will become smooth as silk, and remarkably capable of listening to your complaints.

After all, the Ukrainians are our brothers, and just like us orcs - they only understand brute force and intimidation.

Brilliant. Let them scream.

Then the world will start asking why they scream.
So they will say that Poland is trying to force them to do something against their will.

Then the world will ask what is it that Poland is trying to force them to do against their will.
So they will say that Poland is trying to force them to allow proper burial of civilians that they
brutally murdered in a bestial ethnic cleansing.

When the world is informed of that, it will make their position of Beacon and Shield and Christ somewhat untenable.


I think technical works on railways they will also understand.

We don`t believe a word of what you are saying coz you have a long history of lies and manipulation on behalf of imperial Russia. Ha!!!


Please, don`t involve me in your dirty imperial Russian propaganda machinations. I am a decent monkey, not a svoloch Russophile like others. hahahaha

Said Pinocchio to Geppetto.

Yes, we know you support Russian imperialism. Why are you doing it so blatantly, though?? Decent people read you and then they know they mustn`t vote for nationalist party aka Konfederacja coz they are so pro Kremlin.

If I were the leader of your party, I would put a ban on your internet activity coz you scare potential voters away.
But stay with us as long as possible. Current polls say the support for your nationalist party dropped again. Good! And thank you. hahahaha

Baboon!!!

I did not attach a link to an article by Russia Today, but a link to a video on YouTube...

A video where YOUR foreign minister makes his thoughts known.

Sikorsky is a Russian imperialist? Yes or no?

You support the PO government - yes or no?

The problem is twofold:
I don`t have time to watch everything what imperial Russians link to.

You forgot to say where exactly the quoted words are spoken. Provide the exact timing for :when Sikorsky says "The bodies must be exhumed and properly buried. Do you agree, yes or no?".

WTF.

Do you accuse me of outright lies?

Are you joking?

The moment comes at minute 13:19. Happy?

I have more respect for you than to fabricate facts. Do you have any respect for me?

Yes, I do. Coz you manipulated again. The Ukrainian journalist said sth different than you quoted. He mentioned the EU and Poland blocking Ukraine`s access to it.

"In order to understand the fierceness of the Ukrainians and their reluctance to admit to the crimes against humanity in Volyhn and Galicia, one has to look up in international law the consequences of recognising genocide. Genocide means opening the way to reparations, the opening of archives, the obligation of scientists to cooperate and, above all, exhumations. And the Ukrainians will never agree to the latter, as the first attempts were already made in the 1990s and hair was standing on end about what they had unearthed. Even Leszek Miller, a reluctant member of the previous team, recently admitted that he had knowledge as a former prime minister that the exhumations had revealed the enormity of the crimes, above all against defenceless women and tiny children, where traces of bones prove the cruel torture and dismemberment alive of children, infants. The scale of the genocide was so great and horrible for contemporary Ukrainians that the narrative was immediately reversed and exhumations or confessions were banned because knowledge of the crime would have caused a world scandal bigger than Katyn...."