Jewish Roots of Poland

Rubbish they lived in Ghettos, caught again making stuff up eh?:)

Dutch people hid 25.000 Jews, 8000 of them were cought, how many were sold by Dutch like Anne Frank? Both France and the Low Countries were extremely anti-semitic, far more so than any eastern country bar Ukraine :))))

Judging people, even the whole nations. Who the hell do you think you are?
God the Father or the Holy Trinity? Don't be so restless, the Last Judgment is coming soon.

In the 17th century, Jews were not proscecuted and killed based on being a Jew in NL, au contraire, they were respected parts of society and helped NL become the strongest state in the world at that time. At the same time, the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth sought somebody to blame for the many devastating wars it had encountered. While ignoring the fact that 100's of thousands of Jews died during those wars either as a soldier or as innocent civilian, Jews were found as scapegoat and should be punished. Bohdan Khmelnytsky's Cossacks made sure 10's of thousand Jews died during his uprising of 1648-1657.


Ever heard of the Beilis trial in Russia, early 20th century? Was quite a big example of an anti semitic flavoured trial.


They didn't. They were living among the other Dutch everywhere in every pssbl part of the cities and villages and they were generally respected members of the community. Only after the Nazi occupation they did, just like everywhere else in Europe.


You really don't have a clue, do you? If you don't know anything about it, that's ok, but don't pretend you do as in your case it's only to "prove" how glorious Poland was. Which is of course nonsense. No country was glorious in WW2 or any other periods in time. All countries have their dark sides, even Poland, although you will never admit that. Why is that? Because you're not mentally well.

>^..^<

M-G (tiens)

The survival rate for Jews was just as good in Amsterdam as it was in Warsaw, and if you have any idea of the conditions at the time, you will see that the Dutch have nothing to brag about.

I think MAYBE that I may have a little tiny Jewish ancestry
After all 1 part of my family lived in Lublin for quite a long time (although they were noblemen and looked down upon the Jews in the district you never know)


I have heard that a lot of Polish food have Jewish origin (OMG!!!)


You don't have a clue about what the topic is about! ^^

They didn't live in ghettos. They tended to flock together (i.e. in case of the Sefardic Jews who came to Amsterdam from 1593 and settled in the outskirts of the city, creating the "Jodenbuurt"). Like the Turks, Maroccans, Surinams, Arubans and indeed Polish people in the Netherlands do nowadays as well.


No country has anything to brag about ... neither does Poland. It was a dark period in our history and not one country falling victim to the Nazi regime was better or worse than another.

Actually i do, so did 8000 Jews denunciated by their dutch neighbours:)


Which is fairly pointless since Jews werent persecuted in Poland either (come to think of it they were not persecuted in Poland even in XIX century unlike in NL and France where Pogroms were a regular occurence:)


Really? Last i checked they lived in ghettos, you really need to learn history buddy:) Jodenbuurt in Amsterdam stretched from Houtkoopersburgwal to Binnen-Amstel, thats a huge ghetto for something that you claim didnt exist, want it outlined on a map for you?:)))


Poland has quite a lot to be proud of as far as its conduct during WW2, polish Jews dont.

Well, I have a clue. I'll even take the time to educate you, if you like.

So you say that Polish people in the Netherlands live in ghettos as well?

Nope, i'm saying that the jewish quarter is a former jewish ghetto referred to it in that way in all publications, i wanted MG to respond so i could throw em in his face along with half a dozen other ghettos in NL:)

Jews alienated themselves all over Europe living in ghettos that today become "jewish quarters" inhabited by the locals, claiming that they were heavily assimilated shows just how little the guy knows about western history.

You mean pierogi come from the Bible Land? Is that what they teach you in Norway?

I lived there myself when I studied History in Amsterdam. And it has never been a ghetto as you had in Poland. Jewish ppl were free to live where they wanted and they did and before WW2 many non-Jews lived in the Jodenbuurt as well. In fact you just have to go throught the archives to know that. Ghetto? Heck no.


A Pole who wants to educate a Dutch historian in Dutch history? Well, that'll be the day.

>^..^<

M-G (tiens)

So where were these half a dozen other ghettos then?

Yes - I would like to know that too as I am curious what new, unknown facts will surface.

:)

>^..^<

M-G (tiens)

of course I can.
However I asked about the sources on Jewish communists who participated in extermination of Polish people because this is what you were talking about, unless I misunderstood you, since now you are talking about Poles killed in the east by Jews. Could you be more specific, or this is another of you generalizations again?

My question is: how many of these people who participated in the extermination of Poles were Poles ? They must have been some Poles in the Polish communist party, no?

If the representation on Jews in the communists party reflected the almost 20 % Jewish population in some parts of Poland, why would you blame the "extermination on Jews alone? I am just curious and I don't think you are being objective at all. Instead you are blaming everybody but Poles. Why?

Communists were communists, Jewish or not. Unless there are/were better or worse communists.

Suuuuuuuuuuure you did, you make pretty basic mistakes for a history student:)))

Anything true that you want to add to the story?:)


Erm, no:)


Given that you just claimed Amsterdam with one of the largest ghettos of Western Europe and Netherlands with its rampant pre-war anti-semitism were paragons of assimilation, yeah you need schooling:)))


I'm talking about both, Poles killed by jewish communists and Poles killed by Jews in service of communists but politically not affiliated (such as for financial gain or soviet recognition rather than for political beliefs).

Atrocities on the Poles by the Jews were an everyday norm on the streets of polish cities under Soviet occupation.

Do I? Because they don't fit in your pretty tight worldview?


Ok, give examples of rampant anti semitism in the Netherlands before WW2. I wanna hear from you facts about mass killings of Jewish ppl in NL based on the fact that they were Jewish.


Like I said, prove that there was rampant anti semitism.


I am waiting for your excruciating long list of instances of anti semitism in the Netherlands. And while you're at it, do that for Belgium too. But before you start, just for your information: in Belgium, the Jews who survived the Holocaust were welcomed back as were most of the Dutch Jews. In some other countries they were again killed. Wonder what country that was...

>^..^<

M-G (waiting for Sokidoki's list)

Not to want to play the wise-ass here, but according to my info Anne Frank for example lived with her family until Juli 1942 on the Merwedeplein, which is part of the Rivierenbuurt and not the Jodenbuurt, proving M-G's point that Jews in the Netherlands were allowed to live everywhere, even after the Nazi-occupation.

link/source please.

Aphro, you know that Jews were running rampant in the streets of communist Poland, carrying machetes to cut off arms and heads of ppl that looked Polish, everybody knows that.

:)


My mom's family lived in a big villa a little outside of Rotterdam. There was no ghetto in Rotterdam. Also other Jewish families lived scattered over the entire country. Jacques Presser, a Jewish professor, also lived in the Southern part of Amsterdam, far away from the Jodenbuurt.

>^..^<

M-G (grin)

I would say Poland was quite better in a way or another just look at the Yad Vashem...


No please lol If I would take Norwegian history books seriously I would say PL is a third world country with a slight sucess of economical growth and still have the attitude of Cavalry charges on German tanks, just look at Kaczynski etc TWINS governing a country! HMMMM! I am not like that so no, I don't learn from Norwegian history books or media their utter BS


It over repesented at some point the commie part was filled with 51% members with Jewish origin (the weird thing is they joined to become polonized since other parties were either Polish or Jewish at that time (German too but their irrelevant))

BUT the main thing here is about those commies/soviets who had Polish backround and run off to CCCP and survived and got lucky by "returning" to Poland knowing a little bit of Polishness. Many of them were Jewish but they were SOVIETS that's why I think it's irrelevant if they had that or this background as all of them were pro-taking over the world and spread communism (Stalinism).

Although there was a quite huge group of Jews with no political agend which helped Soviets in 1939 (this is the most important one)

naszawitryna.pl/jedwabne_857.html
One example.

If you keep tugging i'll make a new thread where we can discuss this.


Ah yet again you claim that you or your family or your friends, what a nice way to not provide proof, given that you claim a whole LOT of different things you will forgive us if we just assume you're pulling stuff from your arse again to avoid something as uncomfortable as burden of proof?:)

Why even today Netherlands is one of the most anti-semitic countries in Europe!

jcpa.org/phas/phas-22.htm

The fact is Poland was a very friendly state where people of all walks of life had their fair shot, the West uses Poland as a scapegoat to hide its own prejudices, little treasons and uneducated morons like you think its sufficient to come here without proof and make up tall stories "dutch historian"

Antisemitism in The Netherlands can be blamed on the muslim society.

I've read that link too. But you seem to "forget" that the current anti semitism is not from native Dutch ppl, but from a Moroccan minority as it states in this link. It's actually one of the first hits you get when you type in "antisemitism in the Netherlands". Gee, what deep research you have done to find this source, Einstein. Read Presser and then come back again with more profounded evidence, not one based on assumptions or on a way of putting other countries down to make your own country look better.


You haven't proven anything. Where is the list of Dutch ghetto's for example? There is none, as you were talking out of your *ss again. Your only aim is to glorify Poland and if this has to be done by putting other countries down, so be it. This quote proves that thoroughly. And the basis of all is that deep, unfounded inferiority complex that seems to hinder many Poles, including you.

>^..^<

M-G (tiens)

What a BS-article! It's laughable!

First of all ... it's 6 years old.

Second ... an Israeli organisation complaining about Maroccan's (i.e. Arabs). We all know how much they are liked, don't we?

When the Dutch (more to the point pro-palestinian organisations) stage a demonstration against the killing of a Sheikh, this "institute" is outraged. Thankfully there is freedom of demonstration in the Netherlands.

And when over 70% of the Dutch, who are historically pro-Israel but yet critical about what Israel does in the region, then this institute is outraged as well.

Come on, Sokrates! How stupid do you think I am, huh? And, since YOU came up with the article, let me quote something for you: "According to the survey, 7% of the Dutch population harbors strong anti-Semitic views". You didn't get that, did you?

Coming up with this has really disqualified you in my eyes. I guessed already that you weren't top in the intellectual department, this has just confirmed it. I'm sorry, you're a joke.

Actually you didnt read the link you'd know how massively anti-semitic native Dutch were before the war.

If you did read the link you'd read for example about the chief of police who with the merry support of the Dutch people arrested and gave to the Nazis 3000 Jews from his home town, you'd read how the pre-war club did not admit Jews.

You'd read how native Dutch people make NL a country unwelcome to minorities, so its obvious you didnt read the article, go read it dont make me pull out the quotes and humiliate you further :))))


I just proved that NL was and is massively anti-semitic, far more than Poland which was never anti-semitic and still is not :))))


Well the Jews think otherwise, they think that NL became to quote the article "an unpleasant place to live in as a conscious Jew".

Seem like Dutch are anti-semitic lot to me:)))


Very, your reaction is to laugh at an article and try to attack it at some pretty ridiculous avenues, if NL was anti-semitic since 1940 till 2004 i doubt 6 years changed much :)

This quote is nice:

Dutch railway employees transported the Jews to the transit camps. Dutch policemen guarded them there. There was a small minority of Dutchmen who helped hide the Jews and they deserve great respect. The numbers of Dutch Nazi collaborators during the war, however, exceeded those active in the resistance

Find me a text like that about Poland:)))

Furthermore, out of the 24,000 Jews who were hidden, 8,000 were betrayed by Dutchmen for a reward which in today's money amounts to perhaps 30 Euro per victim

30 Euro? Seems like the Dutch have a knack for business as well.

So guys you keep bytching about proof and links, where's yours? (Especially you MG, you've been so busy creating your virtual reality you failed to provide any proof whatsoever) :)))

I don't like that organisation anyway. It stigmatizes and cries wolf while exhaggerating things.

Indeed, 70 per cent of the Dutch population is historically pro-Israël, but has a resentment towards Israeli politics.

Well, let's just skip Sokidoki's failed attempt to criminalize the Dutch as an anti semitic bunch laughingly aside.

Jews helped NL for a great deal in making it one of the richest countries of Europe and it's due to NL's tolerance that we have always been. If you want to be successful, there simply is no place for intolerance, luckily, the Dutch have always understood that very well.


This is not typical Dutch, this happened everywhere in occupied Europe.

>^..^<

M-G (tiens)

Link please!:))) If there's no link (and you never provide any anyway) then i say 150 per cent of Dutch population is made of inflatable fock dolls.

haaretz.com/hasen/spages/924989.html

2007, attacks on Jews increased by 67%, 91% of surveyed Dutch are aware of the rise of anti-semitism.

Guess its in the blood of Western Europe to persecute minorities and break alliances:)))

expatica.com/nl/news/news_focus/Dutch-support-for-Israel-eroding_12039.html

By the way, I still haven't had that list of Dutch atrocities towards Jews.


Poles didn't do anything, right? Hm, Kielce, Bialistock, Jedwabne...Have a look:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Jewish_violence_in_Poland,_1944%E2%80%931946

Heck, even your own Historians say so. But of course, Jan Gross is a dirty liar, eh?

>^..^<

M-G (did the Sokidoki way: just search on Google)

Looks like the Dutch are anti-semitic even on the interenet.

Nothing about 70% of dutch people, seems like you lied again, what a suprise :)))
zionism-israel.com/ezine/anti-Semitism_Internet_Netherlands.htm

Lets face it, Western Europe is a prejudice rife craphole compared to Poland.