Do you consider Gorals, Lemkos, and Silesians Poles?

It is up to them to decide.
Not us.

Nationality is often intertwined with ethnicity, leading to often umwanted questions regarding personal or political loyalties. Poland's no exception. Just look at Turkey and thd Kurds; they say they're Turkish and Erdogan says their not.

It's actually the other way around....

Due to historical circumstances, Polish (Polani) ethnicity can only be understand as meta-ethnicity to Gorals, Lemkos, Silesians, Lusatians, etc, same as Serbian ethnicity coming as even older meta-ethnicity to all of them and to Polani themselves.

Why do you think old Polish Kings gave name of `Szczerbiec` to their holly sword that had purpose to unite under their rule? Sarmatism is nothing but Serbism and name of Serbs was first and original ethnic name for all Slavs.

I think this person puts it best....

youtube.com/watch?v=RAA1xgTTw9w

I once saw a Pole (some Reddit idiot) write that he cannot be bothered to differentiate between English, Scottish and Welsh - peoples of different countries with their own languages - because they are all 'Angols' to him. Hilarious to me because many Poles act like Silesians, Kashubians, Gorals and the like are vastly different, separate races and cultures to the noble and inimitable Pole. Another glimpse into the wildly deluded mind of Average Joe Polak, tunnel-vision fixated on his odd square country, with some very skewed views and deep ignorance of anything beyond central and eastern Europe.

Most likely, he was (not necessarily) emulating the attitude of many British towards foreigners in their country. I would say karma is a *****, lol, or better still, you sow the wind, you gather the storm.
Back at you - Another glimpse into the wildly deluded mind of Average Joe the Brit, tunnel-vision fixated on his odd square country, with some very skewed views and deep ignorance of anything beyond anglosphere and Western Europe.

Hard to know where you got that from.

Are Silesians and Kashubs separate nations or not?

A group of people that has closely aligned itself with the Polish nation and state (and not afraid of quarrelling about autonomy, especially areas regarding coal mines)

Any activist, politician or young upstart will most likely only be seen as to try to shine in the media. Cause anyone with experience knows it to be futile to even try and any secessionist movement is doomed to fail. Local politicians knows, and central Polish politicians knows it.

Both are part of Poland just as Masovians, lesser Polans and Great Polans. Some are more distinct or seem more foreign. Still part of Polish nation

That's happened already of course.

Ah, I have to add something.
Welsh and Silesians are not the same. Wales and Scotland are two distinct countries that have been absorbed, or more accurately, dominated by the English under specific historical circumstances. You can say they both form separate nations.

In contrast, Silesians are part of Poland, or Poles with distinct cultural (local) differences. I would think that someone from an Anglophone background is familiar with the various accents and local dialects of the English language and does not confuse these differences with ethnicity or nationality.

They've never been 'absorbed'. How well do you know them?


They very much do and always have.


I remember some fool saying much the same here a few years ago. At the time, the PM was Mr Blair, from Edinburgh, his Deputy was Gordon Brown, from Renfewshire, the Leader of the opposition was Mr Cameron, from a Highland Clan and the leader of the third party was Mr Menzies-Campbell from Glasgow. And the Head of State was half Scottish.


So you say.

That is the crux of the matter. They are, and Silesians are not.
--

Yes, I say so, and that should be more than enough for anyone, especially a foreigner.

So Silesians say.

I was born in Lower Silesia and I have family in both Lower and Upper. Overwhelming majority of Silesians declared in the 2021 census either only Polish identity or Polish first and Silesian second. Those who claim that Silesia is a separate "nation" and that Silesian is a separate "language" are those who identified as Silesian as their first identity - a tiny minority of 232,000 in a region with a population of 7.5 million (4.6 Upper and 2.9 Lower Silesia).

They still have a devolution movement and hopefully this will gain in strength,


Decades of gaslighting, plus the whole city of Lviv moving en masse to Breslau.

That is a myth. Few institutions and few professors moved there from Lwów. Not the whole population.

You can call it whatever you want, and you can sell any myth to keep the integrity of your country intact. I don't care. I only mentioned that in passing.

With 3% for and 97% against? Good luck to them. :)


This is, as Iron pointed out, not true. However, in recent years a whole lot of Lviv inhabitants moved to Wrocław. I wonder if they will want to learn Silesian and join the "devolution movement"? :)

Give it time.


Enough did.


If it's taught in the schools they'll have to.

With any language, it's use it or lose it.

Related: https://polishforums.com/archives/2010-2019/genealogy/poland-lemkos-exist-5788/

It's not even a language. There is wide consensus among linguists that Silesian is merely a dialect of Polish.

Anyways, someone mentioned Scotland; I watched a couple of Hibees' games on telly recently - they are being robbed by the hun refs as usual.

Ah, well... there's still sunshine on Leith...



... freedom for Scotland from the English oppressors! 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 ⚔️ 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿

Well you would say that, wouldn't you...


I'm surprised the Tums were sober enoug( to play.


A nice old song, beloved of us Scots.

Just as 'Cap in Hand' is, Jonno. :)

Too weegie and those glasses don't suit.

That's Celtic. Hibees are the Originals.

Same same, except the weegies are even less likely to have soap in the house.

Both glorious Roman-Catholic clubs. Of course, Celtic being the copy and Hibernian the original.

Hibernian Edinburgh Football Club is one of very few things that make your country tolerable (barely). That and The Proclaimers, Evelyn Waugh, Graham Greene, Saint John Henry Newman, G. K. Chesterton, P.G. Wodehouse, A bit of Fry and Laurie (and quite a few other comedy TV series)... hmm... what else... Sir Clive Sinclair, Stephen Fry (a shameless enemy of Christ but otherwise a very lovable person). That's pretty much it. Oh, an Emma Thompson - how could I forget? She was my first sexual experience.*


That's not a very nice thing to say.

Just as, after all these years, I began to warm up to Brits, you start annoying me and my pal Iron with Silesian nonsense, and talking crap about Catholic football clubs.

Horrible behaviour.

EDIT: * - of course, she couldn't have known that.

... then you turn around, and throw accusations of Russian chauvinism when we say the same about the Ukrainian language.

Imagine you elected some Gorbachev/Yeltsin style morons, that would promise people as much freedom and self determination as "they can grab" (genuine Yeltsin quote).

The Silesians would then rapidly separate - thinking to themselves - "We've got the coal and the industry, we've had enough of feeding Poland B."

Thirty years later, they'd be ready to die to defend their independence, when some Polish Putin invaded.

Some new Jon, and new Maf, will be here accusing you lot of being 19th century troglodytes.

It's not such a big nonsense as you seem to believe. It does have a good base of supporters

The difference is, Bobi, that Ukrainian was a recognised language in the Soviet Union whilst Silesian was never considered anything else but a regional dialect of Polish.


❤️ ❤️ ❤️ The best president Russia ever had. He and Wałęsa got on legendarily well.


Yes, it does. 232,000 people in a region of 7.5 million. That's 3%.

Ukrainian is simpler for Poles to understand than Russian. I have great difficulty trying to successfully understand them when they talk; My knowing Russian doesn't help that much.

Ukrainian is a different language, and Ukrainians are a separate nation from Russia, which you can recognize from history (not Russian history, as it is also political). Silesian is easy for a Pole to understand.
By the way, I suspect that one minister in the Tusk government is a Russian asset.

We must be reading different histories, because Russia's argument that Ukrainians are a synthetic people is largely based on historical proof.


Of course, because it is 50% borrowed Polonisms.

All the маю рацию, розмовление, дякую, тыждень, рок, шукати, робити, шкода and страва - all these words which we Russians don't understand they learned from the pan overlords.

All a result of the collapse of the Rus state, and Poland's occupation of its former Western territories.

We can't really blame the Mongols for the collapse, because it happened nearly a century earlier than their arrival.