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Do you consider Gorals, Lemkos, and Silesians Poles?


bwaj
2 Mar 2013 #1
Do you consider the Gorals, Lemkos, and Silesians that live in Poland as Poles?
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,161
2 Mar 2013 #2
It's up to them really, generally I think about 95% of "Gorals", half of Silesians and 1/3 of Lemkos decalre themselves as Polish, what the rest declare themselves as is their own business.
OP bwaj
2 Mar 2013 #3
Yeah, I think most do, especially now a days just like the ones living in Czech Republic consider themselves Czech, Slovakian in Slovakia, and Ukrainian in UkraineI was just wondering what the rest of the Poles considered them to be.
Peter-KRK
2 Mar 2013 #4
What is your definition of Pole?
What about their (Gorals, etc.) self-ID. Does it count?
Why don't you want us to follow common ethnologic definitions?
OP bwaj
2 Mar 2013 #5
This question isn't about what I think or they think, it is about what the majority of Poles think and for anyone on here to give their oppinion.

Obviously the ones living in Poland are nationally Polish, my question is about ethnicity.
gumishu 11 | 5,701
2 Mar 2013 #6
for the majority of Poles think Silesians and Górals are just Poles who speak in a dialect, there is no Lemko minority to speak of actually
OP bwaj
2 Mar 2013 #7
actually there is a Lemko population of about 10,000 in Poland.
gumishu 11 | 5,701
2 Mar 2013 #8
the number is negligible - you and I know there are some Lemkos who live in various part of the country after the 'Akcja "Wisła"' but most Poles are not aware of this
OP bwaj
2 Mar 2013 #9
true. but I think many moved back to southeastern Poland. But I think now a days most are much more assimulated into Polish culture, while Silesians and Gorals manage to keep their culture, probably because there is a bigger population.
hague1cmaeron 14 | 1,377
3 Mar 2013 #10
Do you consider the Gorals, Lemkos, and Silesians that live in Poland as Poles?

Góralscyzna and Polscyzna are two sides of the same coin. If you look into the history of podhale during the romatic period, you will understand the importance of podhale and the Górals in the creative work of such great Poles lie Karol Szymanowski, Władysław Orkan, Moniuszko, Tetmajer, Witkiewicz, Witkacy....... and the list goes on
jon357 67 | 16,907
3 Mar 2013 #12
It's what they consider themselves to be that's relevant, since there aren't any citizenship issues with those three groups.
OP bwaj
3 Mar 2013 #13
But I'm asking if these three are considered ethnically Polish. Roma in Poland are Polish because of citezinship and culture, but they are not ethnically Polish, but what about these three ?
Maybe 12 | 409
3 Mar 2013 #14
Any reasons Kaszubi people aren't included in this debate?
Malopolanin 3 | 133
3 Mar 2013 #15
It's what they consider themselves to be that's relevant

No it isn't. If I consider myself Papuan that doesn't mean I am Papuan.
OP bwaj
3 Mar 2013 #16
And Kaszubians;D
Ktos 17 | 456
4 Mar 2013 #17
No it isn't. If I consider myself Papuan that doesn't mean I am Papuan.

If you feel Papuan and you affiliate with the Papuan culture and are ready to fight for Papuan people as your own people and if this is the prime or only culture you identify with then you can call yourself Papuan and no authority can tell you otherwise because that is what you feel and that is enough, you follow the culture because you feel in your heart that this is your culture and so you belong to it.

Do you consider the Gorals, Lemkos, and Silesians that live in Poland as Poles?

Yes, to me they are all Polish people, unless they strongly feel otherwise but in most cases they will identify themselves as Polish. I think the fashion of today is dig out minorities and little groups in Poland but when disaster strikes we all get together as Polish and that is how it should be. Noone is preventing these people from asserting their own identity if they wish, they could even separate themselves if they wished but they have not done so, they seem to be fine with Polish identity, it is only certain outside groups who are trying to incite the hatred of Polish people and are trying to separate us all. The only group that does not want to assimilate despite having resided in Poland for centuries is the Jewish group, they think that even if they become Catholics they are still jewish just because their mother was Jewish or their Rabbi told them so, well I call that false identity, it is not formed naturally, you have to grow into your identity, it can not be determined for you on the basis of blood, blood lines have nothing to do with how one can feel. Jews are spoiling Polish solidarity attempts by presenting false accounts in the media of Poland being divided and a desire of certain groups to want to separate from Poland, that is an untrue picture, despite regional indentities we are a united nation.
Lenka 3 | 2,561
4 Mar 2013 #18
The only group that does not want to assimilate despite having resided in Poland for centuries is the Jewish group,.

And what about some Silesians? And the separatist movement?
And many Jews felt they're Polish as well as Jewish.
Ktos 17 | 456
4 Mar 2013 #19
Lenka

You are right Lenka but who do think promoted the Silesian separatist movement? Germans of course, they wanted the land of Silesia for themselves but what they did not count on was the strong Slavic presence in the region and the stand the slavic people put up against the separation, Germans were fuelling it along with the Jewish population in Silesia but the Slavic people were too strong and I suspect a some percentage of assimilated and polonaised Germans wanted Silesia to remain in Poland, so Jewish and German efforts of separating us failed, but with Tusk in power at the moment and his efforts of appeasing Germans we may again have to struggle to keep Silesia, it is not Silesians it is Germans and our crooked government who are trying to cut Poland into pieces again.

As for the Jews who call themselves Polish as well, well so they should, shouldn't they? After all they were born in Poland, but notice one thing: they only do that to identify which region they are from and they always call themselves Polish Jews, never Jewish Polish or Jewish Poles (grammatically better), which signifies that they regard themselves first and foremost as Jews, the rest is only secondary, but it should be the opposite, well, that is not a real identity anyway, they are just fooling themselves, it is a desperate wishful thinking of the Jewish Rabbis to maintain control of the Jewish group. In order to remain in such state the Jews create an unhealthy nationalistic attitude of sticking together at whatever the cost to anyone from the outside, e.g.: if a Jewish person commits a crime against a non-Jew then it is hidden from media or twisted around to make it look like the villain was the non-Jew and the victim surprise, surprise the Jew! Just one example. The bottom line is, those Polish Jews feel Jewish before anything else.
Lenka 3 | 2,561
4 Mar 2013 #20
The bottom line is, those Polish Jews feel Jewish before anything else.

That's their right. Why should I have anything against it?

who do think promoted the Silesian separatist movement?

Silesians? You can't possibly deny the fact that some Silesian want to separate from Poland? And they are doing the best they can to achive it- that's their right.
Envyme 10 | 28
4 Mar 2013 #21
Silesians = Lithuanians, Belarusians and Ukrainians mixed with Germans.
OP bwaj
4 Mar 2013 #22
Yes, but even if Jews considered themselves Polish, they would still be ethnically Jewish, just like Roma.
So are Silesians, Gorals, Lemkos and Kashubians considered their own ethnicity, or are they considered ethnically Polish who speak different dialects and have small regional differences in culture.

Thanks!(:
hague1cmaeron 14 | 1,377
4 Mar 2013 #23
Ethnicity is irrelevant in the modern conception of the nation state, and besides do you honestly think that anyone is pure anything in central Europe?

Technically speaking the origins of the Kashubs is Baltic and Lemkos are Rusyn, but by now they would have a strong admixture of Polish blood meaning that this simply describes their past and not their present situation.

Poland's current Prime Minister is of Kashub origin. Gorals celebrating 3 May.

youtu.be/UrUYyHNUZXw
Ktos 17 | 456
5 Mar 2013 #24
@bwaj

I think you consider ethnicity a thing of genetics, but ethnicity is a mixture of elements, even Jews did not originate as Jews as such, they were pagans in the first place and affiliated with their particular pagan tribes, that was their ethnicity. They say that the first Jew was Abraham, but Abraham was not born Jewish, he was not born to Jewish mum or dad, at some point in life he adopted Jewish religion and thus became a Jew just like any other Jew born or converted to judaism; hence in Polish we would write about him using capital letters: Zyd a nie zyd. Hence, Jewishness was not magically held down but created by humans, by pagans (whether Jews like the truth or not, their ethnic origin is pagan not Jewish). Ethnicity is a matter of how far back in time we are prepared to move. So someone born in Poland to parents who were also born in Poland but who call themselves Jews is ethnically Jewish, pagan or Polish? I think, our ethnic background refers to how much of a particular culture our parents and not grandparents (that's going too far back) have absorbed into their daily living and how it has affected them and how they truly feel. What is funny is that Jews think that if a mother is Jewish then even if the father was Polish, it does not matter, the child is exclusively Jewish, well that is like saying that Jewish so called spirit or ethnicity takes over all other ethnicities, this mentality ignores other spirits or ethnicities and it is a false assumption, it is like saying that Jewish ethnicity lives on and others magically die out in the new born, hmmmmm, it borders on racism to me, and at best a fairy tale. Do Jews really think that Jewish ethnicity dominates magically over other ethnicities? Did their pagan ethnic background also magically disappeared?

My point is that a child born in Poland to Jewish parents who do not speak Hebrew or Yiddish and who do not attend any synagogs and who eat ham even occasionally and who speak Polish and watch Polish television and read Polish books and eat Polish food and go to Polish schools and do it all all or for most of their lives and who only call themselves Jewish because some Rabbi said you are Jewish after your Jewish mother, then what can we say to that except laugh and say that the child has an ethnic Polish background and is herself or himself exclusively Polish.

Lenka, I agree with you but Jews can not shove Jewishness into their new born children, it is then artificial, for true identity to form you need a nation which surrounds you, unless you are a rat and able to go deep deep underground and hide all your life. It is unnatural what Jewish Rabbis are doing but their power is wilting now, the only true Jews live in Israel, the rest are just artificially created and think that they are part of something big and united, right! I suggest reality check for them. It's like our Polish Nergal, all his life he felt Polish but all of a sudden someone tells him he has Jewish ancestors and now he is first and foremost Jewish?? HAHAHA, what a joke! Can anyone not see how absurd that is? I guess his Polish pride had to give way to Jewish pride just because someone told him that he has Jewish ancestors, I guess he all a sudden become someone totally different at heart, is that what people are prepared to believe or is it the wishful thinking of the Jews or more some Jewish Rabbis who profit financially from the whole Jewish community prospering??
archiwum 13 | 125
1 May 2013 #25
Hi,

If it aint a european group, then it's Non-White.

One grandparent, like Roma, Tatar, Turkish, and Jewish would be Mischling, only if there was no appearance of.
Katenka_vx - | 1
4 Mar 2021 #26
Merged:

Great grandfather - ethnic Pole or mixed?



Hi! I know quite a bit about my family history but my great grandfather is shrouded in mystery. He disappeared during WWII and my grandmother didn't remember much about him at all, sadly.

He was Polish (As was his wife, my great grandmother) however, it's believed he possibly also had direct origins elsewhere in central/Eastern Europe and potentially could have had ethnic Lemko blood.

I'm normally good with deciphering nationalities based on appearance but I need opinions on this. Do you believe he looks like an ethnic Pole or a mixture of something else? Any Lemko features?

ibb.co/KWqndKJ
Paulina 10 | 1,855
5 Mar 2021 #27
Do you believe he looks like an ethnic Pole or a mixture of something else?

He maybe doesn't look very typically Polish (Slavic), but so do many other Poles... He could be a mix of some ethnicities, but whether he has any Lemko features (I'm not sure what those would be) - I have no idea...
Lyzko 30 | 7,376
5 Mar 2021 #28
Are the Huculs also considered Poles, or are the former actually Ruthenians?
jon357 67 | 16,907
5 Mar 2021 #29
Are the Huculs also considered Poles

No, they're a tiny group of people however they have some cultural things in common with Gorale.
Lyzko 30 | 7,376
5 Mar 2021 #30
I see. Thanks!


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