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How would Poland change for the better (or worse) under a PiS government?


gumishu  
29 Jan 2016 /  #121
PiS went very quiet on lustration

lustration does not make sense anymore

they lost a vote in the committee stage, so he simply re-run the vote

what committee stage - I don't get it - maybe use the Polish name of the thing
jon357  
29 Jan 2016 /  #122
We saw only a couple of days ago how corrupt he is - they lost a vote in the committee stage, so he simply re-run the vote.

I think we will see a lot more of this; hence the importance of an independent media.
delphiandomine  
16 Feb 2016 /  #123
Merged: Polish government plans a raid on business savings

Not content with destroying Polish business through increased taxes, we now see PiS intend on raiding the savings of private businesses,.

230 billion zł estimated savings of entrepreneurs deposited in bank deposits, which may partially be used for investments

pieniadze.gazeta.pl/pieniadz/1,136160,19634037,oto-wielki-plan-morawieckiego-bilion-zlotych-lepiej-platne.html#MT

This is part of the Morawiecki plan. While this is all still hypothetical, we can expect Polish entrepreneurs to keep their cash in foreign accounts to protect them against the government. Yesterday, it was land, now it's private savings - what next?
mafketis  
17 Feb 2016 /  #124
PiS intend on raiding the savings of private businesses,.

Hey, socialists are gonna socialist until they run out of other people's money (see Venezuela, or..... see the PRL).

The PiS leadership claims to hate the PRL yet they seem to be hell bent on recreating as much of it as possible - how much longer before we start getting ration cards?

Bottom line: Don't vote for socialists unless you want your economy to be wrecked.
Polonius3  
17 Feb 2016 /  #125
Don't vote for socialists

So you don't like crypto-Marxist Bernie Sanders?
delphiandomine  
17 Feb 2016 /  #126
The PiS leadership claims to hate the PRL yet they seem to be hell bent on recreating as much of it as possible - how much longer before we start getting ration cards?

Have you noticed how a lot of the anti-PRL rhetoric suddenly stopped after they got elected? We haven't heard a thing about lustration or their other favourite topics, and the only anti-PRL action seems to be this act to try and harass Wałęsa some more.

I wouldn't be terribly shocked if their next move is to dramatically increase alcohol prices, which was another PRL trick.

Bottom line: Don't vote for socialists unless you want your economy to be wrecked.

Couldn't agree more. I'm a social democrat, but any social democrat with a brain knows that you cannot enact socialist policies without having the money/social agreement to pay for it. The best way to have the money is to develop an advanced economy first, then use the proceeds to look after people that need it - Denmark being a good example. The pure socialism shown by PiS is a one step ride to wrecking the economy.

Incidentally, I noticed plenty of posters up about this retail tax - no wonder they're backing off when a lot of small businesses are openly protesting.
Polonius3  
17 Feb 2016 /  #127
suddenly stopped

Not perceptibly. KOD was rightly described as containing many PRL castaways, and Mrs Kiszczak has only just now been exposed for wanting to cash in on her late hubby's private writings. Investigative reporter Cezary Gmyz reports that Wałęsa's entire personal file has been placed in safekeeping for future reference.
G (undercover)  
17 Feb 2016 /  #128
Polish government plans a raid on business savings

Another made up nonsense. What's next "they are going to re-open Auschwitz" ? I wouldn't be surprised.
delphiandomine  
17 Feb 2016 /  #129
Another made up nonsense.

It's straight from the Morawiecki plan.
Polonius3  
17 Feb 2016 /  #130
the Morawiecki plan

This is the first post-PRL plan in 26 years that is truly pro-Polish. It must therefore be the bane of all the Delphs, KOD-ists, nomenklaturites and foreign interest groups that want to keep Poland down as an exporter of agricutlrual produce and unprocessed goods as well as a pool of cheap manpower for foreign assembly sites.

Long before I ever heard of Morawiecki I had often wondered how is it that the Mazowieckis, Wałęsas, Bieleckis, Millers, Pawlaks, Kwaśniewskis, Buzeks, Belkas and Tusks had done next to nothing to promote Polish entrepreneurship, orginal designs, manufacturing and recognisable Polish brands. PiS and their Two Stooges coalition of 2005-2007 also didn't but lacked the time and had to contend with the likes of Lepper.

To what extent Morawiecki's plan succeeds (although the Delphs of this world already wish him dismal failure on principle!) remains to be seen. But the very concept of finally something native, inidgenous, original, Polish-deisgned, Polish-owned and Polsih-branded is in itself heartening. (Not to Delph and his ilk of course; their motto is: "Keep Poland down at all costs!")
Harry  
17 Feb 2016 /  #131
the first post-PRL plan in 26 years that is truly pro-Polish ... something native, inidgenous, original, Polish-deisgned, Polish-owned and Polsih-branded

Do you mean that we should take back all the property that was stolen from Poland and sold to foreigners for a song thanks to the shady connections they made by serving the Party? We could return to them the price they paid, with interest, and throw them out of the country if they object to their ill-gotten gains being taken from them. Surely you would support such a plan, wouldn't you?
Pol attorney  
17 Feb 2016 /  #132
To what extent Morawiecki's plan succeeds (although the Delphs of this world already wish him dismal failure on principle!) remains to be seen.

Actually, I am pretty sure that the plan will be successful if implemented correctly. they still need to make some changes in it and focus as well on small and medium business, but overall it's a good plan which will boost manufacturing, exports and create millions of new high-paying jobs both for Poles and foreigners. They also need to try to gain new markets (but all the positive things are on the Polis side: cheap currency and energy, No muslims, cheaper labour, intellectual potential of young Poles, cheaper materials, etc.

They also need to take away money and wealth from communists stolen by them from hard-working Poles.
delphiandomine  
17 Feb 2016 /  #133
Surely you would support such a plan, wouldn't you?

I think that sounds like a splendid plan. Perhaps the government could set up a special e-mail address where such theft could be reported and acted upon?

they still need to make some changes in it and focus as well on small and medium business, but overall it's a good plan which will boost manufacturing, exports and create millions of new high-paying jobs both for Poles and foreigners.

It won't happen. Anyone that follows the economics of Kaczyński knows that he believes strongly in the large industrial Gierek-era economics, not modern high-tech economics. Morawiecki's plan is fine and well, but anyone that follows PiS knows that they'll never implement it in any serious way. Furthermore, stealing the private finances of businesses to pay for such a plan is always going to lead to ruin.
mafketis  
17 Feb 2016 /  #134
This is the first post-PRL plan in 26 years that is truly pro-Polish

Here's a thought you don't seem to understand: The goals of policy do not necessarily determine the outcome of policy.

Don't judge a plan by it's goals, but by its methods and results (foreseen and unforesoon).
delphiandomine  
17 Feb 2016 /  #135
Don't judge a plan by it's goals, but by its methods and results (foreseen and unforesoon).

Well, Morawiecki's plan includes a commitment to reduce the barriers to business and to make it much easier to start and operate a business. Fine, it's always a good idea to lower barriers. It's not even about taxation (Polish taxation isn't much of an issue, except the crippling social insurance contributions for businesses), but about the general business climate. He's made all the right noises - we should focus on tech, we should be more mobile and dynamic - all of this, I agree with.

But at the same time, PiS are busy giving extra powers to government agencies. For example - let's say we have a Polish entrepreneur who wishes to invest in a very large organic blueberry farm. He sees the price that they sell for in the West ($5 for 150g of organic blueberries) and spots the potential for export. Unfortunately, PiS have changed the law, so that he can't buy agricultural land if he doesn't live in the neighbourhood and isn't already a farmer. OK, so he approaches the biggest farmland owner - the agricultural property agency. They offer him a mere 5 year lease as the law also prohibits them from offering longer leases.

What does he do? He walks away.

Our entrepreneur then decides to open a factory producing a relatively obscure (but in demand) piece of IT equipment. He finds a suitable factory, makes a great deal, etc etc. He goes to the bank for funding, only to discover that commercial loan rates have gone through the roof because of the tax on assets held by the bank.

What does he do? He can't fund the factory entirely by himself, so he walks away.

Finally, he decides to open up a small clothing factory producing high end lingerie for the Western market using skilled Polish seamstresses. The initial investment isn't large, so he self-funds it. After 6 months, an employee demands a large payrise. He refuses and lets her go, but she decides to report him to PIP - the workplace/labour inspectorate. The law has been changed by PiS so that they are allowed to act as judge and jury, and they give him the maximum 30,000zł fine for various small breaches of the law.

What does he do? He sells up, takes his capital and opens in another country where the business environment is friendlier.
Harry  
17 Feb 2016 /  #136
take away money and wealth from communists stolen by them from hard-working Poles.

It's a real pity that PIS won't do that. Just as it's a crying shame that they won't take away the property (for compensation, with interest) of those who made shady connections as loyal servants of Moscow and used those connections to 'purchase' property from Poland which even a casual glance at their finances shows they could never have paid anything close to market price for.

Furthermore, stealing the private finances of businesses to pay for such a plan is always going to lead to ruin.

No, it won't, because such course of action would be illegal under EU law and so simply is not going to happen.
polishinvestor  
17 Feb 2016 /  #137
I wonder if in the 230 million savings Morawiecki includes himself as he made more than 20 million working at bzwbk. Very easy to take the moral high ground once you have had your fill. Walking away from the table when its almost empty isnt difficult.
Harry  
17 Feb 2016 /  #138
Very easy to take the moral high ground once you have had your fill.

That sounds remarkably like somebody we know!
G (undercover)  
17 Feb 2016 /  #139
It's straight from the Morawiecki plan.

Of course it isn't. You took it out of your obvious body part.

Very easy to take the moral high ground once you have had your fill.

Which "moral high ground" are you talking about ? Was he supposed to give it up and let the Spanish owner "export" that cash back to Spain instead ?
jon357  
17 Feb 2016 /  #140
I wonder if in the 230 million savings Morawiecki includes himself as he made more than 20 million working at bzwbk.

This is something we see all to often.

Walking away from the table when its almost empty isnt difficult.

One issue is that although the table was empty, so many of the PiS mafia hadn't yet had their fill - at a local government level these people have modest appetites but still want to be head of the queue at the TKM buffet.
Harry  
17 Feb 2016 /  #141
Was he supposed to give it up and let the Spanish owner "export" that cash back to Spain instead ?

Is anything stopping him from just donating it to the Polish treasury?
G (undercover)  
17 Feb 2016 /  #142
Why the hell should he do that ?
Harry  
17 Feb 2016 /  #143
Ah, so yet again the PIS lovers expect other people to do what they themselves are not willing to do.
Polonius3  
17 Feb 2016 /  #144
Don't judge a plan by it's goal

Don't condemn a plan sight unseen before it's been implemented and allowed to develop out of pure anti-PiS hatred and spite!
Harry  
17 Feb 2016 /  #145
out of pure anti-PiS hatred and spite!

Nobody is judging out of that. People are looking at it and laughing at it because it is fundamentally rubbish and highly illegal. Let me put it this way: are you willing to let PIS take your savings from you in order to 'lend' those funds to other people whether you agree to those 'loans' or not? If you aren't willing, why should other people accept that? If you are willing, why haven't you already contacted PIS to offer them your savings?
jon357  
17 Feb 2016 /  #146
Ah, so yet again the PIS lovers expect other people to do what they themselves are not willing to do.

Entirely expectable and predictable; hypocrisy is one of their main traits, that and paranoia, hysteria, bigotry, authoritarianism and an absolute disrespect for the rule of law.
Polonius3  
17 Feb 2016 /  #147
give Poland bad name abroad

There are also those giving Poland a bad name at home and then sending it abroad. Their name is KOD, the trough-defending mafia.

Piotrowicz

Piotrowicz, the single entry in Delph's "ENDLESS" ex-PZPR appointees in PiS. The 30 SB informers and PZPR types among PO MPs could theoretically be termed as endless. But they yare never mentioend by him. Neither now or over the past 8 years. Wonder why? It couldn't be sheer anti-PiS hatred and spite, could it?
Harry  
17 Feb 2016 /  #148
hypocrisy is one of their main traits, that and paranoia, hysteria, bigotry, authoritarianism and an absolute disrespect for the rule of law.

Don't forget the utter silence about what they were doing in the 1960s, 1970s and 1980s, as displayed by the PIS lovers here who are old enough to have been alive back then and to have collaborated with the SB.

The 30 SB informers and PZPR types among PO MPs

PO have never claimed to be fundamentally opposed to former PZPR supporters; PIS has, and then welcomes PZPR types and SB informers, or at least the ones who are useful to PIS (some formerly loyal servants of Moscow who are still in Poland can't get any position with PIS, a state of affairs which only increases the bitterness so evident in their rants about everything).
jon357  
17 Feb 2016 /  #149
PIS ... welcomes PZPR typesSB informers, or at least the ones who are useful to PIS.

More a superannuated (though not necessarily in the fiscal sense) rag tag assortment of former useful idiots, draft dodgers and chancers that are associated with PiS and other extreme political groups.

PO supporters and others may have supported or at least had to put up with this that and the other problem back in the old days (often whipped up by the self-same chancers that are vocally behind PIS nowadays) however that is straightforward realpolitik.
Grzegorz_  
17 Feb 2016 /  #150
are you willing to let PIS take your savings

This is utter nonsense. Your crowd made up utter nonsense and push is again and again in line with "Repeat a lie a thousand times and it becomes the truth" rule.

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