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How would Poland change for the better (or worse) under a PiS government?


delphiandomine  
18 Dec 2015 /  #61
It's absolutely amazing, isn't it?

For what it's worth, it's been pointed out that a balloon with a gopro will do exactly the same job :D
Harry  
18 Dec 2015 /  #62
It certainly will. As all it needs to do is to go straight up from a certain point with a camera pointed in a certain direction, just putting it on three strings and putting the holders of those strings 20 metres apart will be enough :D
G (undercover)  
18 Dec 2015 /  #63
I was waiting for something like this to happen.

Good as such regulations are in place in many civilized countries. If you want to record videos of your squaters, you can do it from the buildings or in x other ways.
delphiandomine  
18 Dec 2015 /  #64
I've never heard of drones being banned for "secret reasons" for a random short period of time without any explanation as to why. Perhaps you mean Russia, but that's hardly civilised, although it's clear you're a huge supporter of Putin.

We all know the real reason : KOD used a drone to show a significantly bigger crowd than PiS wanted to show. Therefore, drones must be banned in order to prevent the information getting out. Such crude and pathetic propaganda.
jon357  
18 Dec 2015 /  #65
A further example of how terrified they are - all they can do is resort to skullduggery.

Therefore, drones must be banned in order to prevent the information getting out.

Basically yes - but they daren't ban news helicopters - or dare they?

Plus of course photos taken from the windows of flats etc.
G (undercover)  
18 Dec 2015 /  #66
I've never heard of drones being banned

You've got internet access, you can learn about it with just a few clicks.

a significantly bigger crowd than PiS wanted to show

At least 3 times smaller no matter how many times you repeat that lie.
delphiandomine  
18 Dec 2015 /  #67
At least 3 times smaller no matter how many times you repeat that lie.

No matter how often you present the PiS version of events, the fact that KOD used a drone to show their crowd while PiS can't produce any evidence says it all.
Harry  
18 Dec 2015 /  #68
At least 3 times smaller no matter how many times you repeat that lie.

There's no need for us to repeat anything, gregy, we can just show this photo to people:

50,000 people
G (undercover)  
18 Dec 2015 /  #69
KOD used a drone to show their crowd

Which only shows how determined people behind this "non-political movement" were to manipulate on the size of the whole thing. Wasn't TVN's helicopter in the city on that day ? Why don't they release the footage ? They are a part of pro-PiS conspiracy perhaps ?
jon357  
18 Dec 2015 /  #70
the fact that KOD used a drone to show their crowd while PiS can't produce any evidence says it all.

That and the photos, the estimates and the truth.

And on the Sunday 'counter-demonstration' the bods from out of town all just jumped of the coaches they were bussed in on and went straight to the shopping centres, leaving a very tiny pro-PiS/anti-democracy rabble to actually march.
G (undercover)  
18 Dec 2015 /  #71
'counter-demonstration'

3 times bigger according to the police.
jon357  
18 Dec 2015 /  #72
Not according to anybody else - the photos don't lie, the police frequently lie.

It was very sparsely attended compared to the Polish pro-democracy rally.
delphiandomine  
18 Dec 2015 /  #73
3 times bigger according to the police.

Who are under the control of the Ministry of the Interior, controlled by...PiS - who just replaced the head of the Policja.

Hahaha. Greggy, your propaganda really isn't very good :D
InDefenseOfPiS  
18 Dec 2015 /  #74
I know PiS is conservative, but dang - you all hate them.

In terms of religion. I don't mind the state supporting the Church or promoting it. Many say that you should separate the two. Your ancestors who looked up to the Church to unite the Polish people (when it was partitioned, WWII, communism) would probably disagree with you to the core. Don't pick and choose. Having said this, a modern relationship with the Church and State is different. In today's world, the State will need accountability from the Church: both financial (i.e., if we give you $$$ to help the poor, we want to see you're actually doing that) and social (i.e., politicians are not going to try to please you, they are going to please their constituents AND you have to be open minded to the changes that come with time). The comments implying that PiS is going to turn Poland into some crazy Monastic State is just silly.

In terms of sovereignty. I never understood how people support the Euro or even deeper EU integration. I would never trade that sovereignty to be controlled by Western European countries that do not have our best interests in mind. Keep the zloty.

In terms of refugees. I'm so glad that PiS doesn't want any. Muslims from Syria are not like our beloved Lipka Muslims. Our cultures have an inherent conflicts in regards to assimilation. I'm not anti-Muslim, but COME ON. These people are bringing old diseases like cholera to Western Europe because of different standards of life. How is it that Western Europeans say "Poland is such a poor country" one moment and then "YOU NEED TO HOUSE THESE REFUGEES". Hell no. We're "poor", remember? Pragmatically, it'll be easier to send refugees to countries with similar cultures:

washingtontimes.com/news/2015/sep/15/saudi-arabia-has-100000-air-conditioned-tents-sitt/

What Poland needs is to look at the lives of Polish-Americans. I am always surprised to see the different attitudes of Poles in Europe vs. Polish Americans. Polish Americans are proud of their heritage and their hard work. Poles in Europe are shameful of their culture for some reason.

I disagree with PiS on the following:
Lowering retirement age. This just doesn't make fiscal sense since we live longer. If you want us to retire early, make us pay more now.

Cancelled infrastructure. Poland just needs an update.

When the alternative is PO, a party that helped Poland with its employment rate (how laughable) with temporary labor contracts that offer no benefits and a party that is sucking up to the EU hoping that they'll have a voice and a party that betrayed our Czech, Slovakian, and Hungarian brothers on the refugee vote (even after we told them we would stick together), yes - I'll take PiS any day of the week. You keep your myopic, selfish capitalist PO flags until they get back in power.
delphiandomine  
18 Dec 2015 /  #75
. In today's world, the State will need accountability from the Church: both financial (i.e., if we give you $$$ to help the poor, we want to see you're actually doing that)

I stopped reading right here. Anyone that genuinely knows something about Poland knows that PiS will transfer large sums to the Church in exchange for their support come election time, and that the money will mysteriously vanish.
Polonius3  
18 Dec 2015 /  #76
transfer large sums

If so, those sums will not be anywhere as large as what the exploitative
foreign banks and retailers are trasferring to their home offices, leaivng the bare minimum for reinvestment in Poland. To them Poland means only cheap manpower, cheap investment sites and sites for toxic industries they wouldn't want at home.
InDefenseOfPiS  
18 Dec 2015 /  #77
+1. This!

Secretly bribing the Church is wrong on both ends if the Church accepts.

But PO's interests were for corporations who will make few rich at the expense of the common citizen. Why would you wish that upon anyone? Anyone who knows anything about Poland knows that delphiandomine.
pweeg  
18 Dec 2015 /  #78
those sums will not be anywhere as large as what the exploitative
foreign banks and retailers are trasferring to their home offices

You really are a good old fashioned Communist, aren't you?
Harry  
18 Dec 2015 /  #79
a good old fashioned Communist

For some people life was much better under communism. For other people life was less bad under communism because, while they were also failures under communism, at least the neighbours who weren't hopeless failures didn't have much more than them. Most of both groups support PIS now.
pweeg  
18 Dec 2015 /  #80
It also engrained economic illiteracy into them.
delphiandomine  
18 Dec 2015 /  #81
Indeed, which is why people believe that Szydło can cut taxes while increasing welfare measures.

Latest news is that PiS intend to change the current system of ZUS for self employed people into making them pay the full contributions. That means nearly 40% tax for self employed people, as they must cover the employer and employee contributions together. Then there's income tax on top...
Harry  
18 Dec 2015 /  #82
Hasn't that idea been floated and rejected? If it's introduced it means there's a flat tax on the self-employed of 60%!
delphiandomine  
18 Dec 2015 /  #83
Can't find the article now, but it seems that it's very much still on the table.

If it happens, there will be a flood of business registrations in the Czech Republic!
Harry  
18 Dec 2015 /  #84
there will be a flood of business registrations in the Czech Republic!

I'd imagine there will be more than a few in the UK too.
delphiandomine  
18 Dec 2015 /  #85
Found it :

wiadomosci.dziennik.pl/opinie/artykuly/507250,marcin-hadaj-tak-sie-zabija-przedsiebiorcow-opinia.html

If the PiS government will implement the plan for full social insurance contributions from people running a one-person company, it will be a without precedent. It will be the biggest attack on the finances of Polish families ever in our country.

Where's Greggy when you need him to explain why PiS want to significantly raise taxes?
Grzegorz_  
18 Dec 2015 /  #86
Not according to anybody else

With "anybody else" being the previous regime held Warsaw city authorities - which you called "police" ******* all over your pants with joy several days ago till you were proven wrong - your posts are still there, so "police" was totally objective till you thought they claim anti-gov demo was much bigger than the pro-gov one, once it turned out to be the other way around, police immediately "became" some anti-citizen force like in a totalitarian regime, while the Warsaw city authorities, still held by the corrupted party that got booted out in the national democratic elections several weeks ago, the source of "ultimate truth", what a joke :))))
delphiandomine  
18 Dec 2015 /  #87
Greggy, Greggy, where's your aerial footage of the PiS march? We can easily compare then...
Grzegorz_  
18 Dec 2015 /  #88
We could If the mainstream media supporting regime booted out in democratic elections, decided to release them.
delphiandomine  
18 Dec 2015 /  #89
Excuses, excuses. The KOD footage was released by a private person, so what's the PiS excuse?
Grzegorz_  
18 Dec 2015 /  #90
Excuses, excuses.

Have your "excuses".

Najbardziej zastanawiające jest jednak to, że wiceprezydent miasta Jarosław Jóźwiak, podając za pośrednictwem Twittera liczbę zgromadzonych, w ciągu 18 minut rozmnożył manifestantów Komitetu Obrony Demokracji z 20 do 50 tysięcy.

wiadomosci.radiozet.pl/Wiadomosci/Kraj/Warszawa.-Spor-o-liczbe-uczestnikow-weekendowych-demonstracji-00015917

Jak policja liczy uczestników? - Nasze szacunki opierają się na wieloletnim doświadczeniu, rocznie zabezpieczamy ok. 500 różnego typu zgromadzeń publicznych. Mamy ludzi, którzy zajmują się tym od dawna i potrafią oszacować jaka liczba osób znajduje się na danym terenie - wyjaśnia Mrozek.

tvnwarszawa.tvn24.pl/informacje,news,ile-tysiecy-osob-bylo-na-marszach-rozne-dane-miasta-i-policji,188450.html

W sobotę wiceprezydent Warszawy Jarosław Jóźwiak napisał na Twitterze, że według szacunków stołecznego Biura Bezpieczeństwa i Zarządzania Kryzysowego w proteście udział wzięło 50 tys. osób. - Sami organizatorzy mówili o 20 tys.

wiadomosci.wp.pl/kat,1342,title,Ilu-naprawde-bylo-uczestnikow-marszow-w-Warszawie-Rozbiezne-szacunki-wladz-miasta-i-policji,wid,18042182,wiadomosc.html?ticaid=116244

You are coming up again and again with the whole drone thing as that's all you have, If they showed the drone footage proving that pro-gov demo was 3 times bigger as police says, you would say it's faked. Your "grass-root" demonstration, organized by 6 political parties and "promoted" senselessly for 2 weeks, turned out to be much smaller (gathering less than 0.05% of voters) than the pro-gove one, hence all the hysteria and manipulations.

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