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Why do Poles come to England?


misiek  
24 Aug 2007 /  #91
99% of us comes to UK because of obvious reason...

Many of just here appreciated Poland and will go back one day (who shouts the loudest 'NEVER', will go back in first drop).

Regards
isthatu 3 | 1,164  
24 Aug 2007 /  #92
99% of us comes to UK because of obvious reason...

its our 6 day summer isnt it,come on,admit it:)
misiek  
24 Aug 2007 /  #93
Have you been flying today ? :) I think thats the only way you can see the sun this year.

Regards
Frank 23 | 1,183  
24 Aug 2007 /  #94
Hence we Poles must remember that many Russian lives were lost to rid Poland of German Occupation

Not quite, it was merely to put in place the original pre 1939 plan to carve up Poland between the two major which went a little pear shaped......ie...the Germans tried to shaft the Russians, so the Russians needed to shaft them back........fortunately for the rest of Europe they bled each other to near death....each regime was equally distasteful...each responsible for the greatest crimes against humanity ever recorded......a plague on both their houses!

The Russian bear is alive and well and only to happy to savage any country that treats it disrespectfully......in its own opinion actually.
misiek  
24 Aug 2007 /  #95
greatest crimes against humanity ever recorded

Bit off topic but.. what means the greatest? Amount of deaths or who (and how dies?)

If the first one is concerned then .. china is on a lead (communism 100 milion victims - interesting book)

Second one I leave without comment :)

Regards
isthatu 3 | 1,164  
24 Aug 2007 /  #96
fortunately for the rest of Europe they bled each other to near death....

unfortunatly it is never the regime's who do the bleeding just the everyday people dragged into both Dictatorships grubby wars of conquest.

The Russian bear is alive and well and only to happy to savage any country that treats it disrespectfully......in its own opinion actually.

I loved the photo in our press here in the UK of some ancient soviet era "bear" bomber
looking like a relic from WW2 beside our brand new typhoon fighters :) dont worry too much just yet about the russian bear,all putin has is a house of cards.impressive from the outside but weak on the inside,,,,

k.
ps,I wonder how long before this thread just disapears as though dragged off to siberia never to be spoken of again outloud?
ogorek - | 165  
24 Aug 2007 /  #97
(the "Red Army " is civil war/post war name) was exhausted with huge supply lines and coping with the problems of resupplying over land the germans had destroyed in their retreat

Is that what they told you in 1944? Your naivety is spectacular.

as demonstrated when elements of the Polish 1diw tried to reach Czerniakow and were slaughtered mid river

No matter how prepared - you get casualties (hear about D-day?) Poles had the right spirit. They were just as "exhausted" but they were too few. At least they tried. They did'nt get the back up to succeed. They didnt need the whole red army to break through.

risk provoking an international incident with "friendly fire"

Again this happens in war - soldiers were surrounded by chaos at this time. It's NO EXCUSE for denying these heroic missions landing space.

Not all fought by a long shot,yes the heros af the Armia krajowa and other underground movements

You child. What does it matter how many fought? The fact that the majority did is enough. They did it for principal. I thought you knew your history? They had no choice becuase they knew their neighbours intentions (from history). They stood and fought for their own freedom. Why? Because they would have rather died than be ruled by Russia again. You have no idea.

Dont let anyone take away the heroics of the AK from this

You just did.

Britain had been fighting 2 days less than Poland

Britain was dropping leaflets. France whistled into the wind.

Poland took on the German army alone. 2 days my *ss.



Patrycja19 63 | 2,699  
24 Aug 2007 /  #98
I am sorry, but I really do not understand the above sentence.

how did you become a teacher then?

anyway.. you said you interpret /teach and heard other Polish saying that they
as a country will never catch up.. and cant wait to leave. or am I getting your
message wrong?

I just find it very upsetting that you would say that, and yet you say Poland
is your country.. we all know that it as well as other countries have their faults
but the people do what they can to the best of their ability.. for so many years
Poland was Pulled in two different directions.. what would you expect from them?

yes they are proud of their accomplishments as anyone would be.. and you as a
teacher should be saying those I have come across have taught me as well..

I dont know why anyone would even take on a job where they feel the people are
so full of themselfs.. if you can be so opinionated about it, please dont bother to
teach those who must have needed you at the time.. its too bad that you feel that
way.. so basically it means nothing to you what so ever..

I know that unfortunately People take careers that they do not like for the money
and no compassion what so ever.. the two most important are teaching and
medical.. both require patience and compassion for those they surround..

no more to say.

Yes, I must agree, she sounds very pompous-even worse than me!

so your agreeing that your a pompus .. you walked into that one michal..

:) I can respect that you have risen to the plate..

now all we need to do is help you learn how to be more tactful when
you are in discussions.

Russian soldiers would return to their homeland after their magnificiant work freeing eastern Europe in 1945.

The Russian soldiers did quite a bit of damage.. Magnificiant isnt the word I would
use.. its too bad everyones historical insight doesnt match.
ogorek - | 165  
24 Aug 2007 /  #99
Poles come to England because they are in the EU - as in union. Member countries are one and movement of people is expected. People go to whichever part of the union that is most attractive to them at the time. England is most attractive at this time. Tomorrow it will somewhere else. Some will stay - some will leave. For poles the attraction is better wages (for now). Brits go to Spain for the weather. etc etc In 100 years the EU population will be completely mixed.
ukpolska  
25 Aug 2007 /  #100
The polish just come because they don't like their countrym they believe that any country is better than their's, and because in England they think they can make alot of mkoney

Errrmm, to be truthful I can find nothing wrong with this statement at all because I have heard the same thing from Polish people in 7 years of living here now. But that is what I have heard, and no doubt other people have heard differently than myself and will disagree with this; but the strange thing is, do I have right to say this without being accused of being a racist and in return my country being attacked??? I think the problem here is that people are looking for things to react to, but hey I am stating the obvious here it is a forum after-all. All I'm saying guys is keep it in perspective and read a post for what it is, no doubt the guy is confrontational, but if the cap fits lets wear it.

I don't think any country is better than Poland, and certainly not England, which is full of fat arrogant bores, bad food, and weather even worse than Poland's.

As I said above, "but if the cap fits lets wear it", yep I am a fat Englishman who needs to go on a diet, but that is my Polish wife's fault as she is such a dam good cook, plus the beer beer is so good!!!

Wouldn't say I'm a bore though.... arrogant of course, all Polish are stupid ;O)
sledz 23 | 2,250  
25 Aug 2007 /  #101
Hey cant you guys get a little more original
UKpolska
UK
UKinpolska
UKEng
UKguy
geez it gets confusing??
truebrit 3 | 196  
25 Aug 2007 /  #102
The polish just come because they don't like their countrym they believe that any country is better than their's, and because in England they think they can make alot of mkoney

Another reason they come to work in England/Britain is that this is one of the best places in the world to live and work.
Eurola 4 | 1,909  
25 Aug 2007 /  #103
Poles have ALWAyS went places for search of a better life. We are EVERYWHERE from New Zealand to Alaska, Argentina, Australia, USA...you name it, we're there. So, what's a little trip to UK. Nothing, especially that it was made so easy in the EU.
Frank 23 | 1,183  
25 Aug 2007 /  #104
Nothing, especially that it was made so easy in the EU.

Especially as they can get paid for it, Polish people this year, Bulgarians next, then Romanians....wots new?

The Irish did it for 200 years.....its all on one big cycle......sometimes we were gratefully recieved, sometimes disgracefully......I would like to think as Polish people keep coming to both islands that they get what they want and are well treated....if you get shafted on an individual basis......don't take it personally......!!
isthatu 3 | 1,164  
25 Aug 2007 /  #105
Quoting: isthatu
(the "Red Army " is civil war/post war name) was exhausted with huge supply lines and coping with the problems of resupplying over land the germans had destroyed in their retreat

Is that what they told you in 1944? Your naivety is spectacular. [/quote]
ok,thats clever,take one line and twist it.....in origional post that was one of many reasons,the main as i so obviously pointed out was Stalins wish to see Poland on its knees...

Quoting: isthatu
as demonstrated when elements of the Polish 1diw tried to reach Czerniakow and were slaughtered mid river

No matter how prepared - you get casualties (hear about D-day?) Poles had the right spirit. They were just as "exhausted" but they were too few. At least they tried. They did'nt get the back up to succeed. They didnt need the whole red army to break through.

Yes,they tried,and fair game to them but it was never going to be more than a suicide mission and they never win wars.

Quoting: isthatu
risk provoking an international incident with "friendly fire"

Again this happens in war - soldiers were surrounded by chaos at this time. It's NO EXCUSE for denying these heroic missions landing space.

again,I dont think I did say it was a "valid" excuse,just that it was one semi accepted by all nations.(btw,put your self underfire mate and then tell me whats an excuse or not)[quote=ogorek] Quoting: isthatu
Not all fought by a long shot,yes the heros af the Armia krajowa and other underground movements

You child. What does it matter how many fought? The fact that the majority did is enough. They did it for principal. I thought you knew your history? They had no choice becuase they knew their neighbours intentions (from history). They stood and fought for their own freedom. Why? Because they would have rather died than be ruled by Russia again. You have no idea.

erm,all I said there was that not all the residents of warsaw fought or even wanted the uprising,fact ,pure and simple and very highly documented even in the uprising museum in warsw. Funny I dont see any reference in my post to implly that the AK (or indead al etc) didnt fight and die valiantly,maybe you will read it again instead of jumping to paranoid/persecuted default mode when this subject is raised.

Quoting: isthatu
Dont let anyone take away the heroics of the AK from this

You just did.

Ok , challenge you to back up that satement with facts

Quoting: isthatu
Britain had been fighting 2 days less than Poland

Britain was dropping leaflets. France whistled into the wind.

Poland took on the German army alone. 2 days my *ss.

Check your history books mate,Germany invaded Poland on the 1st Britain declared war on the 3rd...= 2 days more
( but if you want me to bring up the fact that beyond the defenders of warsaw effective Polish resistence broke down in around 17 days I will do) Yes your forces were all around the world slowly re forming and performing a valuable service in the fight against germany but if left to fight "alone" do you think you would be a free country now? seriously,if Britain had stood by and not opened up a second front Poland would have ceased to exist decades ago either swalloed by a nazi or communist rule unopposed by any in the outside world.

Its all the in the history books and as public record in both our nations and I stand by what Ive said knowing full well that anyone with a serious interest in Polish history beyond vague national pride would and do back me up on.

k.
Michal - | 1,865  
25 Aug 2007 /  #106
385,000 young UK citizens emigrated to other countries? It sounds like a trade off. Ha

No it is not because you will find that a lot of these people are the skilled young who will look for futures in nice countries like Australia and not in Krakow!

so your agreeing that your a pompus .. you walked into that one michal..

Not really as I wrote it!
ukpolska  
25 Aug 2007 /  #107
Hey cant you guys get a little more original
UKpolska
UK
UKinpolska
UKEng
UKguy
geez it gets confusing??

It is original and I have had this name for 7 years now :O)
Hope this one doesn't get deleted by the way; don't know why it deleted in the 1st place it was only a tongue in cheek comment, thats why there was a big smiley at the end of the comment. Guess it was a case of the moderator not reading all of it, still no big deal ;O)
Patrycja19 63 | 2,699  
25 Aug 2007 /  #108
Not really as I wrote it!

and you said her post was more pompus then you..

I think you win.. :)))
ogorek - | 165  
25 Aug 2007 /  #109
Britain had been fighting 2 days less than Poland

How do you define fighting?
England initially never raised a finger. That's why the brits called it the "Phoney War" remember??

Fight (Contend with in battle or in single combat)
Phoney (counterfeit - sham - fraudulent )

in origional post that was one of many reasons,the main as i so obviously pointed out was Stalins wish to see Poland on its knees..

Where? You state "exhaustion" and "resupply" as the reason. Then about blind attacks.
Your comments are Red bias my friend.

Let me put it to you bluntly. If Warsaw was Moscow or any other Russian city - the red army would have gone in. Instead you pick up on old propoganda and assume it's true.

Listen mate - I have both German and Polish Grandfathers. They were both involved in the war. Interesting that - isn't it.

Beleive me I know.

and they never win wars.

You really know how to hit a man when he's down - coward :)

but it was never going to be more than a suicide mission

On D-Day 4,000 US/allied troop were butchered in the first 20mins. Some would call that suicide? - but you do what it takes - like a man. What were the US fighting for? A lot less...

instead of jumping to paranoid/persecuted default mode

I have no reason for paranoia. During the uprising, my Grandfather decided to stay behind the lines and help with organisation and transport. He was a tough man - but he did this because even he was afraid - he was f***king afraid. He never liked to admit that. Many others were the same. I tell you this for your own education. You will never really know. Hard core respect goes out to those frontline men. What they did. If you have any respect for these people who represented Warsaw as a "whole" then you need not bring up that fact that some didn't fight. I don't blame them. Don't undermine their honour. Let it lie.

Ok , challenge you to back up that satement with facts

The only fact I need - my Grandfathers boot on your *ss.

Check your history books mate,Germany invaded Poland on the 1st Britain declared war on the 3rd

Let me enlighten you. This was the deal. If Germany attacked, Poland would hold for 2 weeks and give time for the largest army on earth (France) and England to attack from the west - hence easing pressure off the Poles. They made their excuses but Poland held out for a little longer - but only gave up because they ran out of food and amo. They were kicking Gerry *ss most of the time and could have continued if supported. Hitler's army had not yet seen real action before Poland. They were not 100% sure yet of their capabilities. The allies failed to support Poland. Hitler beat Poland and became cockey. If England France had done what they said and even Russia had taken the initiative then, Hitler would have been crushed in Poland and WWII would have ended there. That's why honour is so important - but almost non existatnt today.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Krojanty

You can read all about 1-17th september battles here. It's a shame Britain missed the party.
FISZ 24 | 2,116  
25 Aug 2007 /  #110
Ok...enough about battles. The topic is "Why do Poles come to England?"
ogorek - | 165  
25 Aug 2007 /  #111
if Britain had stood by and not opened up a second front Poland would have ceased to exist decades ago

England opened up a second front to allow the US in to bail out Europe for the second time in 20 years.

Hitler never even intended to invade UK - the plans were a smoke screen for the invassion of Russia. Hitler was crap on the sea. The channel saved UK - as it has always done except for 1066.

Ok...enough about battles. The topic is "Why do Poles come to England?"

Isthatu started it :)
tornado2007 11 | 2,274  
25 Aug 2007 /  #112
Hitler never even intended to invade UK - the plans were a smoke screen for the invassion of Russia. Hitler was crap on the sea. The channel saved UK - as it has always done except for 1066.

the Brits are lucky to have the channel, your correct, but we would never lie down to any enemy looking to invade our country. There are not many nations who level up with the bulldog spirit we have, i can only think of the chinese or japanese who are fierce and will fight to the death.
ogorek - | 165  
25 Aug 2007 /  #113
I disagree. I think most developed counties would not lie down to an enemy. It just depends on what cards they are holding at the time. Poland has always had a crap hand and the dealers are always Russian or German. The UK always plays with a strong set of cards. If it has a weak hand it does nothing.
tornado2007 11 | 2,274  
25 Aug 2007 /  #114
well i don't agree with you there, there are nations that historically have accepted invading armies, nations etc and even bent over backwards to make them feel comfortable and welcome. I don't think you'd see the French doing that. I'm not going to name nations because it would start world war III and i would like to stay a live for a few more years :)
isthatu 3 | 1,164  
25 Aug 2007 /  #115
red bias,dont give me that BS,who was it with Nukes pointing at us for 40 odd years.a bit of a cheek really that isnt it,lets see,The Warsaw Pact ! ;)

You are so wide of the mark of where Im coming from its untrue. Let me just say this,its refreshing to have a discusion about the situation surrounding the Warsaw uprising without having to explain first that "no,its not the ghetto Im talking about"

Theres no need to take the patronizing tone with me either,I may not have been alive in 44 (which you imply with comments like "you belived in 44") but Id say 1974 as a birth year is a bit old to be called a "little boy" :)

Sorry,whats so particularly interesting about "having both grandfathers in the war" (of course their stories will be interesting,but I think your implying something unique),half the Polish veterns I know over here were at one point in the german army...its an old(yet interesting) story.

And like you pointed out,it was france with the largest standing army in the world that was ment to invade Germany from the west as Poland fell back strategicaly,instead they advanced 10 miles,stopped,then went home for coffe and croixsoints.

No all britain did was take in your armed forces,re equip them,provide them with spitfires,sherman tanks,sten guns, have a look at any photos of non LWP Polish forces and you may spot this,oh and a home. And provided the means to resupply the AK and the training grounds to train the silent and dark,and the finances etc ad nauseum.

And are you now trying to say the usa was in the war in 1939,with your comment that britain opened up a seconed front to allow the US to bail out europe? I think your forgeting things like the battle of Norway,the battle of France,Battle of Britain,North Africa,Syria blah blah and so on

BTW,if you get your imformation from wikipedia Im not surprised its a little patchy,I dont think I'll bother looking at the site recomended,I'll stick to my extensive library and genuinly factuall sites on such heroic battles as Bzura, Modlin and Kock....As for the defence put up by the Warsaw pursuit squadren that is second to none for valor.

in short ogorek,save your righteous indignation for someone else,someone who maybe does belive the red propaganda ,as I say ,considering Im nick named Norman Davis by some mates I dont think you need to worry about me taking anything away from the Polish underground movement, if youve misenterpreted some of what Ive posted,well,what can I say,these things happen,just glad ,like I say that Young Poland can still be as passionate about those times as ever. Keep it up

k.

Quoting: FISZ
Ok...enough about battles. The topic is "Why do Poles come to England?"

Isthatu started it :)

no I didnt, The germans did,they invaded Poland;)k
fawlty towers,never ages ....:)
truebrit 3 | 196  
25 Aug 2007 /  #116
Poles have ALWAyS went places for search of a better life. We are EVERYWHERE from New Zealand to Alaska, Argentina, Australia, USA...you name it, we're there. So, what's a little trip to UK. Nothing, especially that it was made so easy in the EU.

More Poles have come to the UK in a short space of time because it is one of the best places in the world to live and work.By comparison only a handful exist in most of those other countries you mention.
ajgraham - | 121  
25 Aug 2007 /  #117
You can read all about 1-17th september battles here. It's a shame Britain missed the party

These battles may have been heroic, but they were individual actions and fought alongside a background of total defeat!!.....When the Germans attacked the west and drove the French and British backwards, there were many individual acts of heroism.... One of these was the Battle of Calaise which held up the German advance long enough for the British and some of the French troops to escape back to Britain, but they were hardly important enough to be called a victory since it was done during a defeat!!.......I don't blame the Poles for trying to boost there victories out of all proportions when you consider what happened to that country afterwards....Maybe it is just normal, because if Britain had not ended up in Germany 5 years later and had been defeated in France in 1940......Everyone in Britain would know everything about the little heard of Battle of Calaise!!....I've noticed most Poles get touchy about this, like you said Britain has an Island we can hide away in.....Poland isn't that lucky....So I don't think anyone thinks badly of Poland for being invaded.

Hitler never even intended to invade UK - the plans were a smoke screen for the invassion of Russia.

What history books do you read Ogorek?....Or do you just make everything up as you go along?
isthatu 3 | 1,164  
25 Aug 2007 /  #118
Quoting: ogorek
Hitler never even intended to invade UK - the plans were a smoke screen for the invassion of Russia.

What history books do you read Ogorek?....Or do you just make everything up as you go along?

No , he's right with that(and most of the other stuff,just missed my point about things not being as black and white as some would wish),documents now do exist(and always have done,just lost) to prove this as fact. Hitler,by the time of the defeat in france had no real intention of invading mainland britain,all his efforts(apart from the airforces bombarding of england) were put into operation barbarrosa. Of course no one on the allied side knew that at the time,or indead for decades after the war but ,naturally britain had to work under the very plausable assumption( bearing in mind the Molotov/ribbentrop pact) that the UK rather than USSR would be the nazis next target.(ok,between times they invaded Greece and Jugoslavia..).

k.
witek 1 | 587  
25 Aug 2007 /  #119
More Poles have come to the UK in a short space of time because it is one of the best places in the world to live and work.By comparison only a handful exist in most of those other countries you mention.

only a handfull of Poles in the U.S. Canada, Germany?

Poles living abroad excluding British Isles :

America 9,000,000
Brazil 1,500,000
Canada 800,000
Argentina 500,000
Belarus 400,000
Germany 300,000
Lithuania 250,000
Australia 150,000
Ukraine 144,000
Russian 77,000
Latvia 57,000
Czech Republic 50,000
Italy 50,000
Kazakhstan 47,000
Spain 44,000
Holland 39,000
Austria 20,000
Iceland 7,000
Mexico 5,000
Turkey 5,000
isthatu 3 | 1,164  
25 Aug 2007 /  #120
Kazakhstan 47,000

so thats why Borat speaks Polish not kazak :)
(ducks for cover, "no im not saying Polish people are like borat"..:) )

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