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Why do Poles come to England?


frd 7 | 1,401  
5 Nov 2009 /  #301
well certainly we are all getting benefits despite not being in uk even once, every polish citizen is obliged to get these in the moment he is born... and our "becoming a man" trial includes traveling to UK and killing a swan with your bare hands..
tornado2007 11 | 2,274  
5 Nov 2009 /  #302
???
Any links?

I did not find this out on the internet, actually i was listening to the Ian Collins show this past Monday night where they had the leader of UKIP on the show, one of the slots (about 30 minutes) there was a discussion exactly on what i was discussing above.

It is set to get even worse now that it seems we are condemned to fully committing to Europe.

I'm not expecting you to believe me without any links etc etc but i would not just say something that i thought up in a dream i had like crow would :)
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
5 Nov 2009 /  #303
Mister H might know about this as it's not the first time I've heard it, torny. I think there is some substance to it but hearsay is a discretional thing.
tornado2007 11 | 2,274  
5 Nov 2009 /  #304
I understand that and it is why i said that i did not expect everybody to believe me :) Although to be honest its not the first time i've heard about Poles claiming benefits while residing in Poland.
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
5 Nov 2009 /  #305
Well, what does it say about our system if we don't investigate such claims fully and allow it to happen? It's built on trust but, ultimately, it is the benefits agency which makes the decision and not the applicant. We should remember this.
tornado2007 11 | 2,274  
5 Nov 2009 /  #306
i dn't blame the people who are making the claims, i blame the people making the decisions at the top, i'm all for a 'friendly' europe but i don't want to be in the pockets of those sitting in Brussels/Strasbourg!!! That just will not do, if we let them rule us/decide our laws, then we are finished as an independent state/nation.

Ever since we have entered Europe we have been hit with the most rediculous laws ever known to man, human rights is a joke, we have to bend over backwards for all non-Brits but when it comes to our own............... really its one big joke that isn't actually that funny. Britain, British, England, Scotland etc etc used to mean something, now its just lost in the big mess that is Europe. People may have said we looked down on other parts of europe from an ivory tower, well let me tell you i would prefer that to what we are getting ourselves into, atleast standing up there we could make our own decisions for our own people :):)
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
5 Nov 2009 /  #307
We will be in their pockets, torny, and that's the problem. Brits have been resisting this for a long time. Even opponents of Thatcher like myself see her defence as valiant and necessary but to no avail.

The seminal decisions were made long ago. Like those on the supremacy of EU Law and the direct application of Regulations where we have no meaningful room to maneuver. The direct effect of Directives allows for some latitude/leeway but we still need to capture the spirit of the measure.

We can still honour our traditions, though :)
SeanBM 35 | 5,808  
5 Nov 2009 /  #308
I'm not expecting you to believe me without any links etc etc but i would not just say something that i thought up in a dream

I am sure someone or a minority group are doing that, the link would hopefully have given us figures.
All systems have people working them, the question is how many, other wise it is just sensationalist poop stirring by the guys you said were talking on the radio, who I don't know.

atleast standing up there we could make our own decisions for our own people :):)

And half the world that you conquered.
Slawek076 - | 81  
5 Nov 2009 /  #309
derek trotter
Why Polish schools should be private in Poland? Are all English schools only private in England? You working on it? If you are English you have nothing to do with Polish schools darling. The same we Polish we have nothing to do with yours.
derek trotter 10 | 203  
5 Nov 2009 /  #310
geez that was a wind up for Shelly, of course we have private schools in Poland, I am Pole
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
5 Nov 2009 /  #311
Saying darling to a man, that's interesting. Here's a song for that moment, Oh Darling by the Beatles.

What obstacles have you encountered as Poles abroad? What experiences have you had of English (British) bureaucracy?
Slawek076 - | 81  
5 Nov 2009 /  #312
To everybody...About benefits received by Polsih family members from the UK. It's true. Some Polish people do this. They just work in England, their kids live in Poland and they are getting child benefits for them here because they work here. Question is if they should or shouldn't? I understand that I work here in England my family is here, kid, wife and I take Child benefits here. It's clear situation but receiving child benefits here on ours kids in ours countries - other than England , it's some misunderstanding. I'm Polish but I think it would be more fair to get benefits only if your kid is here with you. You are living here or there. Easy to understand and I don't like it some Polish people uses that way to get money for their families in Poland, it's not fair. By the way it's only possible to get Child and Tax benefits. JSA and housing benefits you can not cheat that way.
SeanBM 35 | 5,808  
5 Nov 2009 /  #313
I take Child benefits here

Why?
derek trotter 10 | 203  
5 Nov 2009 /  #314
if you are a poof you could be called that, gay society use this word often ( not that I know a lot about them :) )
Slawek076 - | 81  
5 Nov 2009 /  #315
SeanBM
because my kid is with me and if you are under 25k/ year per person everybody can get help like this, of course living in England

probably yes, i have read on HMRC that it's nearly 50k together to get a couple ponds a week.. how much you get it's based on simply income calculation. IF less you earn than more you get...example if you earn 14k/year and your wife earn 10k/ year - part time you will get around 200/4 weeks per one child, child tax benefit only... Many people works in families - one full time , another part time - ( mostly mother) to not pay huge money for chilcare services which ruin families, that's realy pain in England, for one child you pay around 20-25 punds/hr of childcare services that's horrible expensive that's why one of parents works part time. Next thing is I don't want to allow to feed my kid with fast food solutions which are the only one option to healthy style of living in here's childcare centres. There were a couple news about this terrible fact of feeding kids just by giving them chocolate bars in BBC.
derek trotter 10 | 203  
5 Nov 2009 /  #316
Child and Tax benefits. JSA and housing benefits you can not cheat that way.

it seems to you know a fair bit about benefits in UK and which one is cheat-able, nice.
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
5 Nov 2009 /  #317
There is apparently a benefit that Poles are entitled to. You get about 280 pounds a month if your kid is in Poland and you are in the UK as a parent. If you are in the UK with your kid, you get 500 pounds plus 70% of the babysitter's fees. It also depends if the father is known and is working or not.

This is a decision of the British government, not a bilateral/reciprocal agreement.
Slawek076 - | 81  
5 Nov 2009 /  #318
probably yes, i have read on HMRC that it's nearly 50k together to get a couple ponds a week.. how much you get it's based on simply income calculation. IF less you earn than more you get...example if you earn 14k/year and your wife earn 10k/ year - part time you will get around 200/4 weeks per one child, child tax benefit only... Many people works in families - one full time , another part time - ( mostly mother) to not pay huge money for chilcare services which ruin families, that's realy pain in England, for one child you pay around 20-25 punds/hr of childcare services that's horrible expensive that's why one of parents works part time. Next thing is I don't want to allow to feed my kid with fast food solutions which are the only one option to healthy style of living in here's childcare centres. There were a couple news about this terrible fact of feeding kids just by giving them chocolate bars in BBC.
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
5 Nov 2009 /  #319
Wow, I'd like some ponds too ;) ;)

Just kidding, I like your honesty and input so far on the forum, SÅ‚awek. Good to have you around :)
Slawek076 - | 81  
5 Nov 2009 /  #320
Seanus
This gets not only Poles but British either...Some British has got kids living in Spain and they get benefits for them here. Same situation...I think benefits should be to all entitled people living only here in the UK
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
5 Nov 2009 /  #321
The British get it too? As I might have guessed. Transferring benefits out of the state just isn't right. The state of the national living abroad should have an interest in their citizens. Paying aliment across countries is logical but benefits, hmm....
derek trotter 10 | 203  
5 Nov 2009 /  #322
If you are in the UK with your kid, you get 500 pounds plus 70% of the babysitter's fees.

does it mean that average teenage girl in UK gets pregnant in lets just say age of 17, after year or two 2nd baby and in age of 23/34 3rd one and you get 1000 a month without working + house benefit + some sickness benefits Yes? That is sick.
Slawek076 - | 81  
5 Nov 2009 /  #323
Seanus
I just don't like to cheat...Sorry for key mistakes :) So much to say So quick to type :) Anyway I think that If i'm living here in England I should be fair for English system because i live here and I will live here if situation lets for the rest of my life...but there's so many problems around that has been created by unhonest people that we have to face it and sort it out together because we live here. It's not just because I'm P{olish you are British...etc...etc but it's because it's our own problem ...If we don't sort it it will be real mess and all of us will be kicked out of their right...because if the govs money are gone nobody will get help...that's what happened in Poland but Polish govs f... their own people.
BritishEmpire - | 148  
5 Nov 2009 /  #324
French and British had no intension of military support Poland, they sacrificed Poland to buy for themselves one year for preparation to war.

Coming from an alleged brit iam surprised that you would come out with something along the lines of treason. Iam glad that britain didn't try and defend poland because it would have been foolish to have even tried, remember poland is on the other side of germany. The huge amount on resources that would have been wasted would have left us in a position where we wouldn't have been able to defend ourselves.

It was inevitable that poland would fall and if britain had fallen aswell then we would all be living in a different world today.

Seanus

There is apparently a benefit that Poles are entitled to.

Its possible that someone could get that depending on how much they earn but to get £500 per month you would have to be on a very poor wage. The biggest problem with foreign nationals receiving large amounts of benefits is their earnings in the previous year is so low in the country they came from so they are normally entitled to the maximum amount of benefits in their first year of work up until april.
Eurola 4 | 1,909  
5 Nov 2009 /  #325
Why do Poles come to England?

In short, because is there.
jwojcie 2 | 763  
5 Nov 2009 /  #326
Lets put this children benefits for Poles in some perspective:
1. 37,941 Polish children gets benefits from UK
2. 650 000 -> amount of Poles in UK (estimated, hard data don't exists)

The qustion is what percent from 1. has parents which don't legally work in UK. Because otherwise, they are paying for their benefits by taxes...

3. 7 322 088 -> amount of children in Poland (0-17 years) in 2008
So only 0,52% of Polish children get some benefits from UK...

sources:
dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1224503/Taxpayers-20m-benefits-Polish-children--stepped-foot-Britain.html

pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ludno%C5%9B%C4%87_Polski#Struktura_p.C5.82ci_i_wieku
Slawek076 - | 81  
5 Nov 2009 /  #327
YesBritishEmpire

Its possible that someone could get that depending on how much they earn but to get £500 per month you would have to be on a very poor wage.

Yes, I agree that's the main problem. Income levels. The problem appears to be provided by brotherhood of employement agencies in this country. They offer the same jobs like english companies but for less, even worse they offer the same jobs in the same companies for less. It makes the job market in England worse and the effects of this are slowly supporting English people who are treated the same way. It's just big agencies problem and I think that all employement agencies which offer work on ongoing contracts withour any rights to be or not to be, these agencies should be delegalised in this country. We all should work directly for employers. Some employers loves the idea to swap their human resource departments with agencies because they do not have to give you contract and right money for your work but it makes the job market bloody unfair not only for foreign citizens but also for you English people.

The next cancer in your system is the fact of not being invided by Polish People but of being invided by Middle - East nations. You can count them in your country in 10 milions or more. They slowly and surely are creating their own country with their rules inside of yours. You just don't see it yet. They build their own sanctuaries inside of your cities. Isn't it some kind of invasion? We other UE states citizens are not in so many numbers like Arab brothers are here? Even worse they get access to the same rights like we or you and much much worse they manage some of your financial institution here and I'm sure they quietly do their job to 'help you' because you fight against their origin countries. Are they friedns or we are? Answer yourself by listening your logic. Some of them don't pay for public transport because they've got one benefit more that we or you English either. How ironic is that that you don't see that and you allow them to eat your country on their brekfast?
ShelleyS 14 | 2,893  
5 Nov 2009 /  #328
Some British has got kids living in Spain and they get benefits for them here.

Are you saying that Brits (indiginous people) who have family in Spain can claim for their (British) Kids living in Spain? How about if that Brit has been working for 20 years in Britain? Also not sure how many Brits come back here to work and leave their families out in Spain...the whole point of going out there is for more family time and a different way of life...your story is quite flawed sorry, since I know of no Brits who have emigrated and then come back to work in the UK, leaving their family in whatever country they have moved to. Also we're not talking about Brits here, we're talking about Foreigners!

16?? how the hell did you get such a law to begin with?

To ensure that mums could stay at home and bring their children up! Aparently this was changed last year to 12, now its been lowered to 7, it meant they could claim and not have to worry about being forced to work, as with JSA where people have to prove they are actively seeking employment..Now with the new system, mums of children of 7 and above will be penalised for job actively seeking employment - when I say penalised - they will have their benefits taken off them.

Its possible that someone could get that depending on how much they earn but to get £500 per month you would have to be on a very poor wage

Maybe with child support and working tax credits it would come to that amount a month but they'd have to earning a low wage have a couple of kids and a wife not working in Poland. Also with them coming form a foreign country, their previous years earnings are not taken in to consideration, they start "fresh" new tax code, new NI...

Transferring benefits out of the state just isn't right

I will say again, unless someone is WORKING and paying NI he/she can not claim for his/her kids, but I doubt this is true as Brits whose children become Spanish residents are NOT allowed to claim child support in the UK!!! Im also sure British kids have to be "residents" in order to go to school...so someone is talking complete rubbish!
Mister H 11 | 761  
5 Nov 2009 /  #329
Mister H might know about this as it's not the first time I've heard it, torny. I think there is some substance to it but hearsay is a discretional thing.

There are quite a few articles I found through a google search about this, although I've read about it before and claiming child benefits for Polish children whether they live in the UK or not is quite common.

This was the article that concerned me the most however:

Some Polish workers in Britain are illegally claiming child benefit in both the UK and their home country, a BBC investigation has found.
Officials in a number of Polish regions told Five Live Report up to half the applications they see are fraudulent.
They added checks on claims were under strain because of the numbers involved.
EU rules allow migrant workers to claim benefit for children who are in a different country, but they cannot do so in two countries at once.

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/7007163.stm

The article is a couple of years old now, but I doubt much has changed. What's ironic is that Frank Field MP is quoted as saying that it was time for a serious reassessment of migrant workers' access to benefits.

Nice to see that two years on we're still having the exact same conversation.

because my kid is with me and if you are under 25k/ year per person everybody can get help like this, of course living in England

I don't really care if your missis gave birth outside the benefits office, as a foreigner you shouldn't be claiming child benefits. If you want British benefits that badly then apply to be a British citizen.

I also don't think that 4x4 driving yummy-mummys from Surrey that put the money into Julian and Tabatha's gap-year fund should be getting it either.
SeanBM 35 | 5,808  
5 Nov 2009 /  #330
when I say penalised - they will have their benefits taken off them.

Was it not encouraging not getting married?
Say Vicky Pollard got pregnant and her and her and her fella thought about it, it would work out better for them if they did not married and claimed single parent benefits.

Like most systems in the world, we hardly ever actively encourage or reward good behavior and it is a real pity.

If you want British benefits that badly then apply to be a British citizen.

What difference would becoming a British citizen make?
I don't follow your train of thought there.

I also don't think that 4x4 driving yummy-mummys from Surrey that put the money into Julian and Tabatha's gap-year fund should be getting it either.

youtube.com/v/6-HLfuhmXoI&fs=1&rel=0

Archives - 2005-2009 / UK, Ireland / Why do Poles come to England?Archived