POLAND TO SIGN US MISSILE SHIELD DEAL TONIGHT

Don't play daft!
It's meaned by Poland as a threat against Russa and it's seen by Russia as such!


Just don't wonder when you get such a reaction to your stupid actions!


Georgia opressed minorities and attacked Russia...that's still the fact and not eve your one potatoe head can change it!


Would be smarter, yes...
Especially if you want to have your own sensitivities taken into account (as Poland often does...and loudly so).

Yet Russian protests appear to have reinforced the Polish media's support for the agreement. "We have made another important step to increase Poland's security," the daily Rzeczpospolita said in an editorial. "And it is the Russians who convince us how important it is. As our sad experience teaches us, the louder they protest against something we want to do, the more certain it is that it lies in our best interest."

This is from the Time article I posted BB. Matyjasz put the question 2 u.

This is typical of the Polish psyche BB. I'm glad that they don't appease too much.

Like that helped in 1939, please. I think one thing that is being overlooked is the part of the aggreement whereas USA will umbrella Poland hould Russia be stupid enough to attack.

And it should be different today how?


How so?


Not annoying your neighbour is not "appeasing"!
I think Poland still needs to find their balance...

Than why did Germany back Poland’s claim to access EU in 2004? Russian government was very furious and vocal about it back in the day. Not to mention Poland's accession to NATO in 1997 which was seen as a direct threat to Russia’s safety and if I remember correctly Russia pointed their missiles at us at that time. Russia points their missiles at as every now and then since 1989 so it's not something unusual, mind you.

But back to the point, should we avoid annoying Russia at all costs or only when the Americans are concerned?

PS: BTW, Good post Kikline.

Ummm.....don't get me started... :)

But I don't think it was the EU, it might have been Poland becoming a member of the NATO what had Russia up the fence.

In case you have forgotten it but it was a deal that for the Sovietunion to dissolve and peacefully to retreat from central Europe
that the West would make no moves which would feel threating to Russia - means no further NATO enlargement, no encirclement by the NATO.
Something the West trampled on again and again whenever he could, the last try with Georgia in April.
(But some members had a better sense than that and showed the US their finger!)


It should be a case to case - decision every time. Peace and cooperation in Europe has to be the priority.
We have to accept and to take into account russian sensitivities and they have to accept and to take into account european sensitivities.

It's a give and take!

Poland feels Russia needs to.


Missile Shield, aggreement with trusted allie if attacked they will help. From your posts I pray all German do not feel as you do, if so, this is very similar to 1939.

Well....and that differs from 1939 how???


You know Cel...for you the war never ended!

And Poland’s entry to EU would not pose any threat to Russia? To its influence in this part of the world?

Look at this from their perspective. Russia agrees to dissolve Warsaw Pact and retreat it's soldiers from her former satellites (in Poland it took place in 1993 - I remember it perfectly) and make it a neutral "no mans land" just to find it being annexed to EU eleven years later. Why do you think it didn't "annoy" them? Because in case of access to the EU the side that stretched their influence in that part of Continent was Germany and France rather than USA?

lol and many more like me, you see until 1989 our voice could not be heard. If you recall you went home to Germany, Poland could not as the home was occupied, remember.


Today everyone knows all to well the cost of not protecting and having allies that will never let Poland, Ukraine or other ex's be taken over.

Well...the home of my family was not in Berlin but in Breslau and in the surrounding litte towns and villages. My family lived, loved and died there in Silesia for many centuries!

So please start spinning another record!


Which cost was that?

Do you really think ONE politician in Washington lost one nights sleep about your fate??? They didn't and they won't....

OK listen to the words to this one.

I listened...but....help me out here...:)

Reguardless of where we live we are the same. As I watched the Olympic's last night, Russia and US were playing volley ball, by the way great game Russia, and in this moment they are men gathering to show with pride the skills they have. Then I was thinking of the value we place on anothers life, should the two meet in a battle field what would be gainned and for whom? It's 2008 and we need to find a way to stop this killing and fighting about bs. Sadly the ones that die during war are there because standards of dealing with issues were ignored. As Russia uses fuel, US uses assistance.

Collin Rayes song could not say it better we all Nation wide cry, laugh, love and sadly bleed and die. We need to work as a nation and when no country should feel they need missile shields to protect their rights our work shall be done for the children of the next generation.

Funny thing is if most of us met in person without space between us, we would have alot in common, enjoy each others company and have a drink or two. Hopefully we would not want harm to come to the other. I cannot be there to protect Poland, maybe I argue with you so you will keep an eye on my loved one should they need it. :)

Sorry you see me as your enemy!

I don't have any enemy's. I see you as someone that has strong feeling of defending the actions of a country that I feel is placing all of the European's in danger of war over what, Russia's pride and having to deal with their past injustices, being segregated and left out of main organizations, who knows.

Maybe if push comes to shove and if Poland is in danger Germany will remember the EU and what they have been through and be there for them. I stongly feel if Germany would stand beside ex Soviet run states, Russia would not be pushing their weight around.

For such a big powerful country, why is Russia so easily annoyed? Is it paranoia? Does Russia think little, peaceful Poland is going to rise up and give some "payback" or something just because Poland is in the EU? I don't get it.

That's why Russia is dangerous...it has big guns and is trigger happy, as well as easily annoyed/threatened!

This way it distracks from taking responsability for past action.

My post in another thread as an answer to celinski:


Shopgirl your problem is quite the same. This what you said is a pretty much amateurish point of view. You don't comprehend what the problem is, you like a man in the street judge the book by its cover. You don't even want to assume that the problem can be more complicated.

Yeah? So educate me. I'm listening.

It's above :)
You merely didn't want to see it. :))

Not a matter of wanting or not wanting to see....
What I think/know is based on my observations. I cannot understand how the Russian govt "thinks". I think Russia's behavior is more complicated than simply reacting to what other countries do....I am sure they have an agenda. It just is not clear to me.

I base my statement on Russian military doctrine and my education background. :)


Hm... :) I suspect you want to see them with some mysterious "agenda" and this look more like conspiracy theory. What do you think Poland or... better the US would do if Russia installed missile shield in Serbia or in Cuba? :) Their contraction would be absolutely similar to Russian. Now Russia basing on its military doctrine will HAVE to increase quantity of warheads, relocate known missile vehicles and aim some missiles to Poland. I assure you, Poland, the US, Germany... any country would do the same. And I should ask you now... Do you still think Europe needed that problem created by the US, by their straight military interests?

I believe I already gave you the link where Russia says the site is not an issue, so what is it?


I take it USA made Russia attack Georgia and then not live up to their word that they would get out.


Guess you would have to be there. Russia is still living in lala land that Germany killed the Polish Katyn.

Celinski, I used to think Russians are the most naive people ever. I'm changing my mind... looks like it's some Poles immigrated to the US.

On the official level nobody will tell all the truth on that issue. It's none of civilians' business. :)


Quite the contrary but almost right. The US gave allowance to attack SO (=to attack Russia in persons of Russian citizen living over there).


Somebody here made up a good termin... Polish victimhood. It's getting to make more and more sense to me.

on the other side what Poles could do?

died? suffere economic blockade? another partition? sacraficed themselves in resistance to EU (read- Germany), NATO (read- fu***** dildo), USA (read- whatever)? resist to NATO expansion on their soil? be military neutral on current military alliances? Etc, etc, etc...

look what happened to Serbians!!!

just, problem is that price must be paid in any case. If, so

See? There is another way:


spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,604033,00.html

I read this as Russia speaking for Obama. I stand by what I believe, Russia has no right to tell Poland they cannot protect themselves. Not to mention the on going should they move forward with the shield.

Isn't it amazing how such a 'need' (LOL) based on a threat from Iran suddenly disappears? Iran can't even hit Poland, LOL. Iran has apparently upped the ante from that time (LOL again) and poses a greater threat (ROTFL).

Keep the shields to D&D