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Is the E.U. good for Poland??


Nigel 1 | 71  
7 Oct 2007 /  #1
Hi I'm british and my view of the E.U is that it is a menace for us and it was a mistake to join.It wastes money,creates unnecessary bureaucracy's, interferes with things which are none of their concern,It imposes regulations which are universal and not tailored to the country concerned and it seems to bring the front runners down to the level; of the tail enders and not the other way round.

The original idea of a common market was a good principle.We could trade together but keep our hands on our own wallets.Thats what my parents were voting for.Had they known the truth it would have been rejected.

What do the Polish people think about the E.U and how it will affect 1) themselves and 2) their homeland ??

Most Polish people I know are interested in politics and current affairs so I'm sure you have a view
Polson 5 | 1,770  
7 Oct 2007 /  #2
Poland gets a lot of money from the EU so, in my opinion, it's not a mistake. And it helps when you travel and have to pass countries borders ;)
Lukasz 49 | 1,746  
7 Oct 2007 /  #3
For me as a Pole EU is grate oportunity for my country, and it is in Poland business Economicaly and Politicaly.

In my opinion we dont need Europe leaded by one strong country (germany) but more democratic. And maybe with biger role of national parlaments than some nations are trying to do. All in all EU is good project, and it is chance of European countries to be world player and equal partner for USA, China, Russia ...
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,161  
7 Oct 2007 /  #4
What do the Polish people think about the E.U

Most like It but they usually don't really realize what EU is, they think - EU is rich, so It must be good, when obviously there's a difference between rich countries, which are members of EU and all these "Euro" institutions, stupid regulations etc.

Membership in EU is good for Poland in short term but in long term is simply bad.

Poland gets a lot of money from the EU... That's true but It is much less than It seems to be, because we also have to pay, maybe much smaller but serious money and the rules of spending them are so stupid that in practice It's not possible to spend 100% of them, 80% is already a good result. Also a lot of these money are from the CAP (Common Agricultural Policy) and Polish farmers gets only a part of the subsidies farmers from old EU member states get, so in this case we "get money from EU" but in practice It is anti-Polish dumping, because western farmers get much more, so for Poland It would be much better If the CAP didn't exist at all.

In 2007-2013 budget we "get" something like 88 billion EUR but netto It probably won't be more than ~25 billion ---> and that's within 7 years in a country with 38 million people - avg ~94 EUR per person a year, so nothing really impressive, I spend more on newspapers . And in the next budget we will probably netto get not much more than we pay into and in long term...

The best exampel of these things is the labor market. At the begining It was great - people were leaving, so unemployment rate went down, so wages have to be better also many of them send money back home... but so many people left that already (and many of them won't come back, so money spent on their education, health care etc. were wasted) in some regions we are running out of people and still some people are leaving and our companies obviosly can't offer similar money here, so what will happen ? We already have to import people from poorer, often non European countries. I've got nothing against a singel person from India or China but large influx of foreign people (especially with different culture, religion) always create problems.

All in all EU is good project, and it is chance of European countries to be world player and equal partner for USA, China, Russia ...

How big influence let's say Slovakia will have on relations of EU with China ? Yes, It's a great chane... for medium size countries like Germany and France to play a global superpower.
randompal 7 | 306  
7 Oct 2007 /  #5
I'm sure you have a view

indeedy. Poland being ruled by stronger or richer or occasionally bullying neighbors is nothing new, so having EUrocrats poking their noses in everyones business is not exactly a revolutionary experience for Poles. Better than having Russian or Germans alone telling us what to do. For better or for worse the world around us is consolidating and small nations on their own have less and less of a chance against larger powers like the USA, China, etc. So the trend seems to be join up or get swallowed up on worse terms. For Poland like for many nations its probably a mixed bag. Sure you lose some of that precious sovereignty, but what is that sovereignty worth when your roads are full of potholes, no highways, and the shcools and hospitals are falling apart? Besides there are many other benefits: freedom to travel and to work abroad (convenient pressure relief valve), shorter lines at the airport (not like Americans and Canadians are usually hassled by EU immigration anyway, though), and what else?.....
Lukasz 49 | 1,746  
7 Oct 2007 /  #6
I want to notice that after our join to EU we became more reliable partner for foregin companies, so they decided to open ther factories, research centers, offices here.

It is advatage as well

How big influence let's say Slovakia will have on relations of EU with China ? Yes, It's a great chane... for medium size countries like Germany and France to play a global superpower.

now reality isnt nice, it is enought to look on EU support in case of embargo on our products in Russia. All in all now EU should take care about that and they make pressure on Poland to be more submissive. I just wonder what would happen if USA would make embargo only on France wine and start promote Romanian wine in USA ...

Idea of EU is grate, but I dont want EU domitated by one or two countries ...

I m optimistic and I think that it will be succesful project.

As to details I dont think EU parlament should decide how should potato look or what is the size of proper cucamber ;)

so less bureaucracy, more solidarity
OP Nigel 1 | 71  
7 Oct 2007 /  #7
GOT SOME GOOD REPLIES SO FAR.
I UNDERSTAND ITS GOOD WHILE POLAND IS STILL GETTING ON ITS FEET,BUT WONT IT STOP YOUR FURTHER DEVELOPEMENT WHEN YOU ARE BACK ON THEM. POLAND HAS A LONG HISTORY OF STRUGGLING TO RETAIN ITS SOVEREIGNTY,IT SEEMS A CURIOUS THAT YOU GAVE IT AWAY AT THE EXACT MOMENT YOU GOT IT BACK!

POLISH PEOPLE HAVE A VERY SPECIFIC STYLE IN DEALING WITH CERTAIN MATTERS, IT DOESNT BEAR ANY RESEMBLANCE TO THE E.U STYLE WHICH WILL BE IMPOSED ON YOU.AS WE FOUND OUT,THE ONLY PEOPLE WHO CAN IGNORE THE RULES ARE GERMANY AND FRANCE-THE REST OF US MUST DO AS BRUSSELS SAYS.HOW WILL IT BE WHEN AN E.U DIRECTIVE FORCES YOU TO HAVE LAWS WHICH ARE IN CONTRADICTION TO YOUR TRADITIONAL BELIEFS OR CUSTOMS??E.U LAW OVERRIDES NATIONAL LAWS,I KNOW POLAND HAS MORE THAN ITS FAIR SHARE OF STUPID REGULATIONS BUT, HOW DO YOU VIEW BEING TOLD WHAT TO DO BY SOMEONE IN BRUSSELS WHO KNOWS NOTHING ABOUT YOU OR YOUR REGION??
PolskaDoll 28 | 2,104  
7 Oct 2007 /  #8
Nigel! Turn off the capital letters, you're killing my eyes! :)
osiol 55 | 3,922  
7 Oct 2007 /  #9
SOMEONE IN BRUSSELS WHO KNOWS NOTHING ABOUT YOU OR YOUR REGION

EU citizens vote for MEPs who come from the same political parties as stand for national governemt office.
OP Nigel 1 | 71  
7 Oct 2007 /  #10
many meps quickly realise the earning potential of being their.The anti E.U Neil Kinnock was the perfect example.He saw the opportunity and became part of the E.U self preservation movement very quickly.He represented himself,not his constituents.Then theres this UKIP bloke who,s just been found out.They are not under our gaze and they behave as they wish.Its very difficult to control them over there.

What about all those millions of euros a few years ago that just vanished ? they decided that it wasnt in the public interest to look for the culprits!

Everyone seems to have the same idea about the E.U - nobody gives a damn,just let them do what they want. Is that it????
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,161  
9 Oct 2007 /  #11
POLAND HAS A LONG HISTORY OF STRUGGLING TO RETAIN ITS SOVEREIGNTY,IT SEEMS A CURIOUS THAT YOU GAVE IT AWAY AT THE EXACT MOMENT YOU GOT IT BACK!

People here were brainwashed but soon they should understand what's going on.
Lukasz 49 | 1,746  
9 Oct 2007 /  #12
Grzegorz do you really want Poland being so independent as North Korea ??
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,161  
9 Oct 2007 /  #13
Lukasz, do you really have to be so anti-Semitic ?
Lukasz 49 | 1,746  
9 Oct 2007 /  #14
I dont undersant
daffy 23 | 1,508  
9 Oct 2007 /  #15
Lukasz, do you really have to be so anti-Semitic ?

That makes no sense,

just like Poland not being in the EU. on its own, any of the 25 countries is smaller and has a harder job ahead of itself to survive economically.

The EU has allowed EU citizens, which includes Polish, the abilty to work, live and educate in many places it had NO access to only a few years ago

Look at all the EU funded projects in Poland alone, The difference I see in Wroclaw & Warsaw alone is amazing.
Kochana - | 3  
11 Oct 2007 /  #16
I agree with this also. I think it is smart that Poland has also chosen to keep zł
Kaczor Duck 2 | 95  
11 Oct 2007 /  #17
Most like It but they usually don't really realize what EU is, they think - EU is rich, so It must be good, when obviously there's a difference between rich countries, which are members of EU and all these "Euro" institutions, stupid regulations etc

God Post grzegorz, It was very informative. I was wondering why this topic was happening, but it seems Polnd would be better off, I am am glad they are keeping ths ZL.
db1874 7 | 227  
12 Oct 2007 /  #18
Let’s face it Poland has benefited massively since joining the EU - have you seen all the roads being resurfaced in Warsaw thanks to EU funds in the last 2 years! Now they're doing that E77 road that goes north from Warsaw through Lomianki towards Modlin, thank god because some of the troughs, holes and bumps on that road you would not even find in Africa.
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,161  
12 Oct 2007 /  #19
Let’s face it Poland has benefited massively since joining the EU

~5 billion EUR in 3.5 years, "massively" indeed.
db1874 7 | 227  
12 Oct 2007 /  #20
Typical Polish, never grateful and always complaining. It's British, French & German taxpayers who fund they EU, all other countries are net receivers. Maybe you should be grateful for the 88 billion EUR your getting and stop moaning.

As for your comments about the CAP, if Polish farmers were to get the same as the original EU countries farmers (mainly French) then the EU would have gone bankrupt as 2/3 of Polish workers are classed as farmers. It simply wasn't feasible.

The regulations may seem stupid but they are there to raise standards and Poland is badly in need of that.
daffy 23 | 1,508  
12 Oct 2007 /  #21
~5 billion EUR in 3.5 years, "massively" indeed.

5 billion more than you would have got NOT being in the EU grzegorz.
Not to mention the fact, this still equates to OVER 75% funding for Polish infrastructurte programmes.

The EU is great for Poland and Poland is great for the EU
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,161  
12 Oct 2007 /  #22
5 billion more than you would have got NOT being in the EU grzegorz.

And 250% more expensive flats, huge money lost thanks to reductions in CO2 emissions and other "goodies". Screw EUnuchs.
daffy 23 | 1,508  
12 Oct 2007 /  #23
And 250% more expensive flats,

inflation happens regardless - prices go up because people can afford it, not all but some. and as such its the some that can keep it as such - its basic economic principles and happens without any help from the EU or with. it would still be happening in any growing economy, just like poland

huge money lost thanks to reductions in CO2 emisions

come again? facts, figures, where are you getting this from? kyoto?

and other "goodies". Screw EUnuchs.

scaremongering mate. playing on emotion rather than cold hard fact.

You've not offered any substantial arguement as to why Poland would be better off outside the EU.
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,161  
12 Oct 2007 /  #24
inflation happens regardless

It's not inflation but your "investors", who without EU were kept away.

You've not offered any substantial arguement

Go back to my #4, a bit more sophisticated than your 3 lines of "wisdom". Not enough ? Well, I'm not going to waste my time on fanatical EUnuchs, because that has no sense.
daffy 23 | 1,508  
12 Oct 2007 /  #25
It's not inflation but your "investors", who without EU were kept away.

This is scaremongering, they amount of investment you percieve by foreign investors is not that high - we've been though this before you and i and you're were proven wrong then too.

Go back to my #4, a bit more sophisticated than your 3 lines

we "get money from EU" but in practice It is anti-Polish dumping, because western farmers get much more

if polish farmers got the exact same of french farmers it woul dbe disproportate. You'd have 'millionaire polish farmers' in POland - CAP is all about maiking farmer practical to earn a living - the french farmers for eg would argue they dont enough either (and they do arge this) as the costs in PL and FR are differet

so for Poland It would be much better If the CAP didn't exist at all.

Really?> so rather than get some money to help, even if you perceive it as a little, you think its better if they get no money, ergo, no help at all? please!

In 2007-2013 budget we "get" something like 88 billion EUR but netto It probably won't be more than ~25 billion --->

individual opinion with no basis in fact or reality & even if, 25bn EUR is better than NOT getting 25Bn Eur which would be the case if Poland were NOT in the EU.

and that's within 7 years in a country with 38 million people - avg ~94 EUR per person a year, so nothing really impressive, I spend more on newspapers . And in the next budget we will probably netto get not much more than we pay into and in long term...

that is very small minded view - the money goes on schools, roads and infrastructure. which is the foundation stones of any economey to BUILD a strong economy. You must build these first before you can build wealth and this is already visible in Poland as it was in the WEU in the first 50 years with the TGV en france, eurostar, moterways, airports etc etc. free movement of people and goods etc etc -

if Poland was not a member, it could not avail of these - how is that good for Poland?
espana 17 | 910  
12 Oct 2007 /  #26
to BUILD

but bigot,,,,build,,,what?....if all the young people are overseas
daffy 23 | 1,508  
12 Oct 2007 /  #27
build,,,what?....if all the young people are overseas

not all - and you should know, therr is so mcuh under construction today in poland - so much renovation etc. alot is happening in modern poland, with 75% at least funding by the EU. good for Poland, poland good for eu
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,161  
12 Oct 2007 /  #28
that is very small minded view

You expect a serious disscussion and all you can offer is blind EUnuchism... little robot.
miranda  
12 Oct 2007 /  #29
everything is of a dual nature and so is the EU. Poland has made a choice and the good comes with the bad. Another choice would be to remain an isolated country, which was not the option as far as I am concerned. There is no country which is solely independant in the global village, including the most powerful.
daffy 23 | 1,508  
12 Oct 2007 /  #30
ou expect a serious disscussion and all you can offer is blind EUnuchism... little robot.

pot calling the kettle black? Grzegorz, i replied toyou post number 4 and you cannot respond so you resort to dodging the issue and move to emotiveness. fine with me ;)

Another choice would be to remain an isolated country, which was not the option as far as I am concerned.

quite agree, Poland has so much to offer.

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