Why do Poland block the European Constitution?

Well, when somebody is too ugly to find real friends, he has to buy them and they still don't really like him :)

I think you have to understand that to many people in many countries, Germany is viewed as having a long consistent history of being agressive. It is in her nature. "Once burned, twice shy: is a normal reaction after you have been hit. Wouldn't you feel that way?

Look in the other thread...Germany has no problems with her image! It's quite excellent...world wide people like us, they respect and admire us...

Not only are we TOP economically but also have a very good image world wide!
We are a very well run country....
It's a nice feeling! :)

"Overall rankings

1 United Kingdom
2 Germany
3 Canada

....."

URL

Now when you ask around what people think of your two clowns....*shakes head*

simply because our twins wanted little more publicity :)

Let's be honest, your government simply bought that ranking to not make feel sad.

Bye sausage...

BB, you are turning into Crow Jr. --- only posting on political threads. Come join us on other threads...can't you discuss anything else? :) Really!

The EU will work it self out without all this hand-wringing and worry :)

There is nothing wrong with being aggressive...at least today we develop and produce the world best tanks and export them instead of using them....(it's more fun that way)

:)


Och nö.....:(

But it creates an attitude of wariness in those that have felt the agression, honey!

Yikes...now that was mean!

:)

this discussion goes so long :D, i really think it was for pulicity stake that they acted threatening :), poland like to make its presense felt these days

Ok, then show me you aren't. Come to the OT thread and tell me something (anything that is not related to politics or nations! :)

We Yanks had military responsibility for one sector of Germany after the war, but that does not correlate to fiscal responsibility or immediate investment.

Look, here is a fascinating page on germany.info/relaunch/culture/history/marshall.html - the Marshall Plan from the German Embassy in the U.S. The Marshall Plan was not exactly what some people think it was, but on the other hand it did a hell of a lot more than apparently some other people are willing to give it credit for. (And got the proto-form of the EU going, God help us - ;^) )

But...but....but...I LIKE politics and history and such....OT I'm such a boring guy...really! :(

Still waiting....... :)

Brother Lech knows exactly what he is doing,, he will show western europe how things r done properly..

i watched him on tv tonight... hes lulling everyone into a false sense of security by pretending to be dim and confused... clever man... really had me going for a moment...

That's actually a good tactic in some situations....play dumb and folks let their guard down and supply you with information, unwittingly ;)

But such situation is humiliating both sides....furthermore, it's much better to be a buyer than to be an acceptor....

Why do Poland block the European Constitution? Becaouse it wants a Federation. Not one big country!
Unless it's ruled by Poland and Polish folx descide about the constitution ;)

BrontoBob
"Ofcourse not !! There was a horrible war, and over 140 millions lost their lives!! But to use this argument in this argue, that's -for me- quite embarrasing..."

Is it a reason for this embaressment?!

Actually thats the way EU will fall, in the long term its also the West commiting suicide, every and i mean every analysis has Western countries stop and then degrade economically within 20 years due to aging pop, minority issues and the weight of the social solutions.

At the same time the developing countries of the Eastern Europe will keep developing, right now the only reason new members hang out with the crowd is because of the money not because of any feeling of sympathy or continental unity, two velocities will prevent any unity based on positive sentiments and by the time Eastern Europe surpasses Western one in economical terms it'll just give the West a finger and leave the EU.

If Germans want two velocities its fine by me but its a long term suicide for you guys since you will need the East to even keep your economies alive in a not so distant future.

It goes both ways...everybody needs everybody economically! There won't be any boycotts or anything of that kind, trade won't be changed at all.

But if some countries just need more time for their political development it would be unfair to pressure them, it would be undemocratic too.

But some political and diplomatical questions NEED to be adressed and some countries are ready to do something...so why wait?

PS: I don't know so many "analysts" who preach the impending doom of the successfull western societies and the rising and taking over of some eastern countries. To much Stratfor if you ask me...;)

Aye but if you're talking integration then its integration, people cant be bought, they will pretend to like you because you're powerfull and you have money but the moment you stop being powerfull and wealthy they'll give you the finger, especially if they become powerfull and wealthy in your stead.

At some point this needs to become a unification of sentiments and sympathies rather than economy, the two velocities will put an end to that for good.


I gave my opinion about them too many times, your own analysts are raising hell too.
nber.org/feldstein/siebert.html

Its not magic, social spending in the West is unsustainable and changing it without losing power is impossible since the populace is used to it and wont give it away willingly so you have virtually all of developed Europe living on credit.


Why not completely rethink the concept of the Union and go for Europe of nations instead of Europe of regions?

Some guy from the moon came up with the concept of the Europe of regions without time for people to adapt, its not something thats going to be possible in our lifetimes, first lets have Europe of nations and equals (not different velocities) and improve from there, in 20-40 years when old wounds are fully healed and international unity and trust is not just a political slogan, then lets start working towards Europe of regions, a constitution or European superpower.

I agree that a Europe of Regions will be a slow process, spanning one or two centuries but that will very probably be the happy end IMHO.

But on the way to that we need to leave the competing, often hostile nationstates behind...especially when historical grudges and grievances block the future development.

I don't see another way!

(I could be wrong of course since I don't have my crystal ball with me right now) ;)

PS: I have problems with your "either this or that"-vision Sokrates!
In your view there can only be one top dog, either the East OR the West, either Poland OR Germany...never a combination or an alliance or anything.

One has to fall and to vanish to make place for the other one!
I think the West isn't dead nor will he be dying in the forseeable future, economical woes or not...there is no alternative.
People from the whole world flock to the West, as the US and Europe is the paradise for them, speaking of living standards, liberal democracy and freedoms.

Once the time comes I wish to relocate to another part of the world because they seem to make it better than the West we can speak and rethink this again, not before..

Rzeczpospolita Obojga Narodów! ^^
With an adjustment
Rzeczpospolita Wszelkich Narodów!

And thats exactly why both the two velocities and the constitution are bad ideas, right now Germans look down at Poles, Poles dont like Germans, Brits and France have their own beef etc.

Give it one generation of open borders and stuff like constitution or even an European military will work, right now people are either trying to rush things or create divisions.

The two velocities will estrange much of EU and change it into a purely economical relationship which the eastern countries will bail the moment western economies begin the fail, the idea is not for them to leave but help out once this downward trend begins for good in the West, right now you're investing in the poorer half of EU but if you divide it they wont invest back when you need it and they have it so two velocities is not only undermining EU at its most basic root concept but also making you waste money in the long term.

You may be right....but don't forget the west european countries already had their generation to reconcile with each other.

Well thinking that after ww1 the general mood was forgive and allmost forget. Not like that in Germany. After ww2 somehow both of them wants the same thing now.

Poland before ww1 didn't think like that, after ww1 not either and definatly not properly after ww2 having nothing to say! Not until now Poles can bash Germans for their past and they complain! (Well I complain about people generalizing "Norway=Quisling" frickin read history!)

At the same time we were under the Russian belt so there's two options, either West decides to give East some time or we go two separate ways, in the latter case EU dies untill someone else brings it up in the future and oddly enough its the West that will lose the most in the long term.


After WW2 everyone and their brother was nationalistic Poland included, why do you think we took Vilinus away from Lithuania, there were no conditions for any kind of reconciliation back then.

I don't think Europe can flourish at all anymore if one half get's destroyed or wasted, doesn't matter which half. The times have changed.

We need to be whole...at last!

No to Lisbon Treaty