UK, Ireland / Why Poles choose to die instead going home? [12]

It's a sad situation for sure, but from reading the BBC article it seems that these guys don't want to be helped.

What it is they actually do want or what they expect isn't clear at all.

They've been offered a ride home it seems, so they should cut their losses at take it.

UK, Ireland / Why are we paying child benefit in Poland? [63]


Both. People know when they are living outside of what they can comfortably afford and, yes, of course the banks have the power and the responsibility not to lend, but at the same time people don't have to borrow.

I'm all for holding the banks to account for their actions, but the people taking out the loans and credit cards etc should take their part of the blame too.

It will take much more than some child benefit and working tax credits to pay back what many people (including many Polish people) have borrowed.

UK, Ireland / Why are we paying child benefit in Poland? [63]


He also blamed the electorate, which is fair enough in some ways, but at the same time what were the alternative parties going to do ? Would they have been any different ?

Also, politicians are very good at keeping such stuff hidden. I like to think I keep myself informed as to what is going on, but I had no idea Poland and the others joining the EU would have such dire consequences for the British.

Knowing what I know now, I wouldn't have voted for Tony Blair.

UK, Ireland / Why are we paying child benefit in Poland? [63]


May I ask who you would have voted for had you been living here for the three general elections Labour won ?

As for the child benefit situation, what is interesting to me as someone that works in collections for a large bank is the fact many Polish people can't manage even with all the extra help they get. £80 a month child benefit does little to help when you owe about £10,000 in loans, credit cards and overdrafts.

Many live in the UK now because they are trapped in a spiral of debt. Debts caused by their greed, naivety and in some cases not understanding English properly. This is together with the idiotic banks lending money to people with little or no credit history.

The Polish maybe patting themselves on the back for a job well done in rinsing the UK's benefit system, but many are finding that they are not getting the last laugh as they flee back home in a bid to escape bankruptcy.

UK, Ireland / Why are we paying child benefit in Poland? [63]


No idea. I don't think that there is much that we can do, however, one day the money will run out then something will have to be done.

Things such as benefit entitlement illustrate perfectly why countries such as Poland and others should never have been allowed into the EU - not with the rules in place at the time anyway - as their economy simply wasn't up to it.

UK, Ireland / English people attitude towards Poles? [761]


Oh you say it behind their back! So brave!


You have a very one-dimentional view of things.

Do you approve of ANY sort of immigration ?

UK, Ireland / What is the british obsession with Polish workers [39]


It's nothing to do with easy targets, it's purely down to the fact that EU immigration has not been controlled in any way, shape or form. Britian has been swamped and that's what we object too.

We were never given any option or choice in this. We simply have to put up with it.

UK, Ireland / English people attitude towards Poles? [761]


I am not "ever so politically correct", in fact I loathe political correctness, however, I don't see being wise and a bit sensitive to people's feelings as being politically correct.

Why use a word you know might upset someone just because you don't actually intend to upset them ?

If you had grown up in a country where you often saw "Brits go home" painted in 10 foot high letters around the place, wouldn't you feel a little bit sensitive about the use of the word "Brit" ?


That's the other issue. Half the time, people use it not even knowing where the person they are directing it at is actually from.

UK, Ireland / English people attitude towards Poles? [761]


That is a very big "if" thought isn't it ?

The P word was used in a nasty and racist way back in the day, so now it is seen as an offensive word with racial connotations.

We reap what we sow, the damage has been done.

Therefore I don't see why anyone would still want to be using it, let alone call the corner shop "The Paki Shop".

UK, Ireland / I'm turning nationalistic. Want to change my views. [14]


This James guy won't be coming back (or I very much doubt it).

Let's not waste any more time discussing his fictional situation.

UK, Ireland / I'm turning nationalistic. Want to change my views. [14]


I've yet to see a Polish registered car that is not either a BMW, a Merc or a chunky 4x4 so I'll give you the fact that they like swanky motors.


I think this is the reason why you are feeling the way you are. You've been cheated on.


What is your job can I ask ?


I think you're right on that one.

Just a suggestion, but maybe new members to the forum should have to have their first dozen or so posts approved by a moderator before they can be read by the rest of us ?


Exactly and it is the same in every walk of life.

There are plenty of idle foreigners I can think of that I would happily see deported tomorrow given half a chance but that is because they're objectionable gits that take up valuable space. There are also just as many British people that I would like to see shipped off somewhere faraway too.

I've work with people from all over the place and some I get on with and some I don't. It has little to do with where they are from, what colour their skin is, gay or straight and so on.

You can't like everyone.

UK, Ireland / Why do Poles come to England? [514]

They could join a party and stand as a candidate rather than start a riot. They could do a lot worse than writing to and generally being a thorn in the side of their local MP.

I wouldn't advocate voting BNP, definitely not, but UKIP seems a pretty sensible alternative to mainstream parties. It's who I voted for at the Euros and am even looking into joining them.


Politicians have abandoned pretty much everyone. These days you have to be able to afford to look after yourself and your own.

UK, Ireland / Why do Poles come to England? [514]


In some ways I agree with you, however, people can't just sit around blaming others and waiting to be rescued.

UK, Ireland / Why do Poles come to England? [514]


The British would want probably ALL foreigners kicked out if they were totally honest. It does depend on your definition of foreign though. I would never class a British born Asian for example as foreign and many them have better family values than quite a few English people I know. I'd certainly rather keep them and sling out the chavs from the estates.


The foreigners I know would understand where you are coming from totally.

You're right about the UK needing to look after its own and that is something that we never seem to do anymore. It wouldn't matter so much if the those that benefit from our help were in any way grateful. Some most definitely are not grateful and I think it just gets taken for granted now.

UK, Ireland / Why do Poles come to England? [514]


So you intend to hold dual nationality and carry two passports ?

I don't want to see anything "done" to you or your family now or in the future :-)


That's where we came in as it were. The UK is a cash-cow for all and sundry and those in power seem oblivious to the strain that resources are being put under.

Strange logic I know, but it's no wonder British people emmigrate ;-)

UK, Ireland / Why do Poles come to England? [514]


But you don't want to become a British citizen do you ?


The "EU" is not a country, it is a collection of countries, therefore "EU citizen" is a meaningless expression. You may just as well have said "world citizen" - should we all have total freedom of movement across the entire globe ?


It has been formed and it's called UKIP, are you a member ?


Good question, why are people so against having any form of regulation or rules when it comes to immigration ?

UK, Ireland / Why do Poles come to England? [514]


That would sum up the main reason why many were here in the first place then wouldn't it ?

It obviously has sod all to do with wanting to make a new life in the UK.


I'd take the risk.


I take your point but it could be argued that those that were born and raised here, but have origins from elsewhere shall we say, are more entitled then you are ?

UK, Ireland / Why do Poles come to England? [514]


Yes.


Life is all about swings and roundabouts and winners and losers.

Sooner or later (ideally sooner) the Government will have to reduce the benefits bill and the only way that they can do that is say to some that are entitled to something or other, "sorry but you are no longer entitled to it."

The Government can only solve the current mess with radical action.


If you had read what I had written you would have seen that I wasn't asking a question about her immigration status. I was merely stating what someone that moved here before 2004 had to go through and her views on those that were just let in the front door.

UK, Ireland / Why do Poles come to England? [514]


As it said in the article, people do it thinking that the system is such a shambles that they won't be found out. Some are probably right to think that.


It's not a case of being nationalistic, if I was being nationalistic I would want anyone that wasn't white kicked out of the country too.

Are you not in anyway proud of your Polish heritage and do you not want to see certain things preserved ?


That is not a very nice comparison.


It's my understanding that non-EU citizens here on work visas and so on have a stamp in their passport saying that they cannot use the "public purse".

Assuming that benefits offices check such things then they cannot claim benefits, use the NHS and maybe not even be allowed to send their kids to a state school.

I think that this should be extended to all foreign nationals as there just isn't the money to pay for everything to everyone.

I'm not trying to be harsh or cruel, but the money will one day run out and then some really tough choices will need to be made.

UK, Ireland / Why do Poles come to England? [514]


You're not British and you weren't born here so you're a foreigner.

The EU is not a country with one people and the term "EU citizen" means nothing to most British people.

I'm not trying to offend you, but that's the way it is.

UK, Ireland / Why do Poles come to England? [514]


I just think it would stop the UK being seen as a cash-cow.

If you needed a British passport before you were entitled to anything, it would make people think twice about coming here unless they had the means to support themselves.

One of my neighbours is Polish, although she's lived here for years and years. She had to do things the old way in terms of a visa and after she married a British guy she had be interviewed by the home office and so on. She says that Polish people come here for one thing and one thing only: money. Other than that they wouldn't come and she said that most don't really want to be here.

It's that sort of mentality that I think needs to be stopped somehow, whether it is through only giving benefits to British citizens, limiting work permits or whatever it is we need to do SOMETHING to stop the rot.

Loved the youtube vid by the way ;-)

UK, Ireland / Why do Poles come to England? [514]


There are quite a few articles I found through a google search about this, although I've read about it before and claiming child benefits for Polish children whether they live in the UK or not is quite common.

This was the article that concerned me the most however:


news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/7007163.stm

The article is a couple of years old now, but I doubt much has changed. What's ironic is that Frank Field MP is quoted as saying that it was time for a serious reassessment of migrant workers' access to benefits.

Nice to see that two years on we're still having the exact same conversation.


I don't really care if your missis gave birth outside the benefits office, as a foreigner you shouldn't be claiming child benefits. If you want British benefits that badly then apply to be a British citizen.

I also don't think that 4x4 driving yummy-mummys from Surrey that put the money into Julian and Tabatha's gap-year fund should be getting it either.

UK, Ireland / Why do Poles come to England? [514]


What about them ? You could apply for British citizenship if you want to be entitled to the same as a British person.


What a charming and mature response.

UK, Ireland / Why do Poles come to England? [514]


Sorry but I don't think a year is long enough. It isn't exactly fair on those that have paid in for all of their lives is it ?


Then they should apply for British citizenship if they plan to stay here forever. It's what many non-EU immigrants end up doing.

UK, Ireland / Why do Poles come to England? [514]


Why is it so diabolical ?

Why should someone that has had a job few weeks be able to have access to the same services as someone that has been paying in for many years ?

UK, Ireland / Why do Poles come to England? [514]

[quote=Slawek076][/quote]

Could you edit your last post so that I'm not included as it's not my post that you are replying too. Thanks :-)

UK, Ireland / Why do Poles come to England? [514]


I said "I think", I did not say anything for definite.


You can think me stupid if you like, but I do work in a bank and have worked for various different ones.


I'm afraid that they do and much of the blame has to go to the banks for offering high credit limits and overdrafts and so on to people with little/no credit history.


They may not have a mortgage, but many have a lot of unsecured debt. Enough for banks to hire Polish speakers in their collection departments anyway.


I don't blame anyone other than the Governments. We did not ask for this situation either.


Purely from the point of view that I am speaking from the day-to-day experiences of my job. No official statistics exist as far as I know, but I can tell you that I'm not making this up for effect.


I do treat them as friends and I don't see them or anyone else as "the enemy", I'm just giving you the facts as I see them.

Credit has been far too easy to obtain and I fully accept that the banks are at fault, however, the person running up the debt is also in the wrong if they do a moonlight flit and just disappear.


Good solution ! Bit too logical for the powers that be to take any notice of however.

UK, Ireland / Why do Poles come to England? [514]

My jobs is not linked to benefits, I work for a bank and deal with people in debt. Therefore I have to go through people's income and expenditure to work out what they can afford to repay towards their debt with the bank.

That's how I can tell if someone is on benefits or not.

Is it is big "Polish" problem? I don't have any statistics, but comparing the percentage of the UK population that is Polish and the percentage of our bad debt book that is from Polish people, I would say it is a big problem yes.

Around a third of our bad debt book comes from foreign nationals. Are a third of the UK population foreign nationals ? No. Draw your own conclusions ;-)

I've also in the fairly recent past worked in credit card fraud and it was a very similar story there too.

It won't suit New Labour's rosey view of immigration, but some people do come here to rip us off.

UK, Ireland / Why do Poles come to England? [514]


I think things like child benefit and tax credits and anything linked to children can be claimed straight away (whether fresh of the boat or not). I think that you can go on the council housing list straight away too.

JSA and so on is only available if the person claiming has had 12 months continuous NI and tax payments.

I've dealt with a lot of Eastern Europeans through my job and some can barely speak English, but many are on benefits and are raking it in. Most of the benefits seem to be child related ones.

UK, Ireland / Why do Poles come to England? [514]


The ones that turn up with at least two children and a pregnant wife that come for the welfare benefits.

There, I've said it !