scorpio
11 Dec 2007
Real Estate / What kind of property would you buy in Poland? [19]
A house and lots of land, in a peaceful secluded area, with a farm. :-)
A house and lots of land, in a peaceful secluded area, with a farm. :-)
scorpio
12 Dec 2007
Real Estate / Can I buy a small farm in Poland? [49]
Hi, I'm in Malopolskie, near Tarnow. I'm an expat who owns 2 farms in the Carpathian foothills. Let's meet in person and talk about this topic over some good coffee and cakes! This is a very interesting topic indeed.
For your information, the last time I purchased arable land for my farm here, 1 hectare, my notary checked the following before I was able to sign off on the deal:
1) If you are a 'farmer"
Definition of 'farmer'" - individual that either (a) owned a farm and has relevant farming experience for at least 5 years or more, or (b) has a formal education in farming, along with some practical experience.
2) Once the above was verified, the AWRSP (Agencja Wlasnosci Rolnej Skarbu Panstwa) located in Opole had to first approve the sale in writing, taking about 1 month to do so, This agency checks ensures that a fair bidding and selling process occurs, with priority given to farmers that own land near the land put up for sale. Also, if a farmer should bid higher than my offer, then that farmer has the right to purchase. This was information provided to me by my notary public.
Hi, I'm in Malopolskie, near Tarnow. I'm an expat who owns 2 farms in the Carpathian foothills. Let's meet in person and talk about this topic over some good coffee and cakes! This is a very interesting topic indeed.
For your information, the last time I purchased arable land for my farm here, 1 hectare, my notary checked the following before I was able to sign off on the deal:
1) If you are a 'farmer"
Definition of 'farmer'" - individual that either (a) owned a farm and has relevant farming experience for at least 5 years or more, or (b) has a formal education in farming, along with some practical experience.
2) Once the above was verified, the AWRSP (Agencja Wlasnosci Rolnej Skarbu Panstwa) located in Opole had to first approve the sale in writing, taking about 1 month to do so, This agency checks ensures that a fair bidding and selling process occurs, with priority given to farmers that own land near the land put up for sale. Also, if a farmer should bid higher than my offer, then that farmer has the right to purchase. This was information provided to me by my notary public.
scorpio
12 Dec 2007
Real Estate / Cost to build a house from scratch in Poland? Any companies that do it? [14]
I built my own house from scratch, in the exact area where my former wooden home stood. The barn has also been renovated, needing only windows and doors now. It was quite an enjoyable experience doing the work myself, along with several assistants. It takes alot of time and motivation, but it is very rewarding. The only difficult part now is to find available Polish workers, Many of the best have gone to other countries to work. Below are before and after photos attached. Cheers!
I built my own house from scratch, in the exact area where my former wooden home stood. The barn has also been renovated, needing only windows and doors now. It was quite an enjoyable experience doing the work myself, along with several assistants. It takes alot of time and motivation, but it is very rewarding. The only difficult part now is to find available Polish workers, Many of the best have gone to other countries to work. Below are before and after photos attached. Cheers!
scorpio
12 Dec 2007
Real Estate / Cost to build a house from scratch in Poland? Any companies that do it? [14]
Thanks! Yes, I received permission from the local gmina (main commune town hall) to build it. It was considered a 'renovation', because the new house was build on the exact location of the old wooden house, and the style and dimensions didn't change much.
No, again, it was a 'renovation', not a new plan. I designed the appearance and interior of the home though.
looks nice! did you need planning permission for it? or was that because you built it...
Thanks! Yes, I received permission from the local gmina (main commune town hall) to build it. It was considered a 'renovation', because the new house was build on the exact location of the old wooden house, and the style and dimensions didn't change much.
did you need an architect?
No, again, it was a 'renovation', not a new plan. I designed the appearance and interior of the home though.
scorpio
12 Dec 2007
Life / The Guardian : Living in Poland [30]
Interesting article, although it contained some exaggerations such as Poland having extremely bitter winters and other comments. All in all though, it presented Poland in good light.
This American expat found the wonderful 'secret' of living in Poland back in 2002. After living in a village, I would never even think of living in a flat in any large city, not in Warsaw or Krakow.
Interesting article, although it contained some exaggerations such as Poland having extremely bitter winters and other comments. All in all though, it presented Poland in good light.
This American expat found the wonderful 'secret' of living in Poland back in 2002. After living in a village, I would never even think of living in a flat in any large city, not in Warsaw or Krakow.
scorpio
13 Dec 2007
Real Estate / Cost to build a house from scratch in Poland? Any companies that do it? [14]
All of my building materials were purchased during the years 2002-2004, when prices were low and the US dollar was strong. For example, during the year 2003, 1 US dollar = 4 PLN, and the price for 1 cinder block (pustaki pionowy) was only 2.5 PLN. Today, 1 US dollar = 2.40 PLN, and 1 cinder block costs about 10 PLN plus a high VAT rate. That said, my house cost me only $30,000 US dollars (materials, labor, plumbing, electric, furniture, not including the cost of land) which is 105 m^2 (15 meters x 7 meters). My house includes 3 bedrooms, 1 large living room, 1 bathroom/shower, 1 kitchen, 1 miscellaneous room, 3 large basements (two were from the previous home) and a large spacioius attic which is being converted to 3 more rooms. It was very inexpensive back then, and now you will be paying much more.
The best way to build a new home is to build it on an area or foundation where an older wooden or brick home stands. In many instances, there will already be an existing electric service, telephone line, and water well as was in my case. Also, building in such a way is considered to be a 'renovation', and not 'new home'. You save alot of money doing it this way since a new plan and architect isn't required, and new electric lines and poles aren't needed, as well as associated zoning costs.
All of my building materials were purchased during the years 2002-2004, when prices were low and the US dollar was strong. For example, during the year 2003, 1 US dollar = 4 PLN, and the price for 1 cinder block (pustaki pionowy) was only 2.5 PLN. Today, 1 US dollar = 2.40 PLN, and 1 cinder block costs about 10 PLN plus a high VAT rate. That said, my house cost me only $30,000 US dollars (materials, labor, plumbing, electric, furniture, not including the cost of land) which is 105 m^2 (15 meters x 7 meters). My house includes 3 bedrooms, 1 large living room, 1 bathroom/shower, 1 kitchen, 1 miscellaneous room, 3 large basements (two were from the previous home) and a large spacioius attic which is being converted to 3 more rooms. It was very inexpensive back then, and now you will be paying much more.
The best way to build a new home is to build it on an area or foundation where an older wooden or brick home stands. In many instances, there will already be an existing electric service, telephone line, and water well as was in my case. Also, building in such a way is considered to be a 'renovation', and not 'new home'. You save alot of money doing it this way since a new plan and architect isn't required, and new electric lines and poles aren't needed, as well as associated zoning costs.
scorpio
16 Dec 2007
Real Estate / Can I buy a small farm in Poland? [49]
Yes, I believe it does. Leasing a farm and working the land is the same as owning the farm in this context.
Here is where it might get tricky. I was able to get Polish citizenship back in 1998, so that made the buying process much easier for me. If you aren't a citizen of Poland and do not hold a Polish passport and Dowod Osobisty, this may be where the 'foreigner' status kicks in along with the 7 year or longer time period for actually purchasing and owning the property. To be sure, this latter question would be better answered by a real estate attorney or specialist. To avoid high attorney costs, I recommend you directly contact the AWRSP (Agencja Wlasnosci Rolnej Skarbu Panstwa), if that agency hasn't been replaced by another one yet, or speak to a good Notary. Notaries are updated with these laws because they are the ones that ultimately must realize the final paperwork for you via the courts and property register.
A pack of "Delicja" would be fine! :-)
Does this include leasing a farm and working the land in Poland?
Yes, I believe it does. Leasing a farm and working the land is the same as owning the farm in this context.
If so will I be able to purchase further land after working the land here for 5 years? Or will I have to wait 7 years to transfer the farm to my own name, then a further 5 years after I officially "own" it?
Here is where it might get tricky. I was able to get Polish citizenship back in 1998, so that made the buying process much easier for me. If you aren't a citizen of Poland and do not hold a Polish passport and Dowod Osobisty, this may be where the 'foreigner' status kicks in along with the 7 year or longer time period for actually purchasing and owning the property. To be sure, this latter question would be better answered by a real estate attorney or specialist. To avoid high attorney costs, I recommend you directly contact the AWRSP (Agencja Wlasnosci Rolnej Skarbu Panstwa), if that agency hasn't been replaced by another one yet, or speak to a good Notary. Notaries are updated with these laws because they are the ones that ultimately must realize the final paperwork for you via the courts and property register.
Will I need to bring my own cakes??
A pack of "Delicja" would be fine! :-)
scorpio
16 Dec 2007
Travel / Is Wroclaw the best city in Poland? [30]
Both Wrocław and Kraków are beautiful, and crowded. Poland is dotted with many smaller historical towns which contain wonderful old architecture, such as: Reszel, Byczyna, Biecz, Leżajsk...just to name a few. There are many more. I prefer a village in the mountains with a spacious backyard and forest! :-)
Both Wrocław and Kraków are beautiful, and crowded. Poland is dotted with many smaller historical towns which contain wonderful old architecture, such as: Reszel, Byczyna, Biecz, Leżajsk...just to name a few. There are many more. I prefer a village in the mountains with a spacious backyard and forest! :-)
scorpio
4 Jan 2008
Real Estate / Poland property boom over???? [54]
As someone in the "Poland Real Estate" thread had previously mentioned, property prices in Poland will continue to increase until they have reached a level similar to their Western European counterparts. I also believe this to hold true. On the flip side, anything ridiculously overpriced, being higher than similar properties in the West, are due for a downside correction. It works both ways. I think she said, 'prices of all goods and services in the EU will eventually reach an approximate level of equilibrium', with some minor differences always existing. The laws of supply and demand within the EU will set the prices.
Poland property boom over????
As someone in the "Poland Real Estate" thread had previously mentioned, property prices in Poland will continue to increase until they have reached a level similar to their Western European counterparts. I also believe this to hold true. On the flip side, anything ridiculously overpriced, being higher than similar properties in the West, are due for a downside correction. It works both ways. I think she said, 'prices of all goods and services in the EU will eventually reach an approximate level of equilibrium', with some minor differences always existing. The laws of supply and demand within the EU will set the prices.
scorpio
4 Jan 2008
Real Estate / Poland property boom over???? [54]
Hi 'hello',
As much as one would like to believe and support the above statement, unfortunately, in today's Polish real estate market, the salary of a resident living in Poland is now a moot point. I say this because now in the EU we have the freedom of labor, goods, and capital. Since all foreigners can purchase flats in Poland just like a Pole can, this is a good example of this theory in practice. It is mostly foreign invesment and ruthless speculators which are responsible for the terrible flat prices in cities like Warsaw and Kraków, not local Poles. In fact, most Poles who work in Poland cannot afford these kind of prices. Poles that work in UK or Ireland for example, could. This was a grave error on part of the Polish government during the early days of democracy and EU membership, to allow unrestricted purchase of flats by foreigners (non-Polish citizens). Example: Irish banker sitting in his office one day is thinking to buy a flat in Warsaw. He takes a holiday and travels to Poland for several days, looks at a flat in Warsaw and bids a higher price than the Pole who wanted it, then buys it and goes back to his home in Ireland. This is a scenario only too common. The Polish government should have enforced restrictions on 'flats' similar to those of land/farm purchases. That is now water under the bridge and cannot be reversed. The same is already happening with farms and land but on a much smaller scale due to the helpful restrictions in place. When the year 2016 is reached, the market will be completely open, and prices will only escalate up until that time.
you only take the real estate prices on the West, but ignore average salary of Poles versus Westerners
Hi 'hello',
As much as one would like to believe and support the above statement, unfortunately, in today's Polish real estate market, the salary of a resident living in Poland is now a moot point. I say this because now in the EU we have the freedom of labor, goods, and capital. Since all foreigners can purchase flats in Poland just like a Pole can, this is a good example of this theory in practice. It is mostly foreign invesment and ruthless speculators which are responsible for the terrible flat prices in cities like Warsaw and Kraków, not local Poles. In fact, most Poles who work in Poland cannot afford these kind of prices. Poles that work in UK or Ireland for example, could. This was a grave error on part of the Polish government during the early days of democracy and EU membership, to allow unrestricted purchase of flats by foreigners (non-Polish citizens). Example: Irish banker sitting in his office one day is thinking to buy a flat in Warsaw. He takes a holiday and travels to Poland for several days, looks at a flat in Warsaw and bids a higher price than the Pole who wanted it, then buys it and goes back to his home in Ireland. This is a scenario only too common. The Polish government should have enforced restrictions on 'flats' similar to those of land/farm purchases. That is now water under the bridge and cannot be reversed. The same is already happening with farms and land but on a much smaller scale due to the helpful restrictions in place. When the year 2016 is reached, the market will be completely open, and prices will only escalate up until that time.
scorpio
5 Jan 2008
Real Estate / Poland property boom over???? [54]
Grzegorz, what you mentioned [above], I already stated in an earlier posting [below].
The thing is that in some cases they are already higher than in Western Europe If you compare them to similar locations over there, you can't compare Warsaw with London because the second one is a financial capital of the world and the first is at best a capital of Central Europe.
Grzegorz, what you mentioned [above], I already stated in an earlier posting [below].
On the flip side, anything ridiculously overpriced, being higher than similar properties in the West, are due for a downside correction.
scorpio
7 Jan 2008
Real Estate / Poland property boom over???? [54]
I've only seen few exceptions of similar property in Germany being priced lower than in Poland. By no means does this represent the aggregate situation. To be more specific, right now flat prices in Warsaw and Kraków are are slowly climbing towards the average Western European (Ireland to Germany) equilibrium level, and in some cases, even higher. When it comes to rural properties (farms), prices in Poland are still much lower than in the West. There is a valid reason for this though. There are no restrictions on foreigners purchasing flats in Poland, but there are heavy restrictions on foreigners wishing to buy farmland. This by itself is causing larger demand for flats (because of the simplicity involved in purchases) and thus pushing up prices. The foreign demand for rural properties has been termporarily stalled for the time being due to strict laws. Nevertheless, many foreigners are still finding ways around the regulations. The largest obstacle is trying to obtain permission from the Polish Interior Ministry. That process can take a while and many phone calls to your lawyer, and many aspirins. Please provide valid sources (links) of properties in Germany now being cheaper than in Poland?
I've only seen few exceptions of similar property in Germany being priced lower than in Poland. By no means does this represent the aggregate situation. To be more specific, right now flat prices in Warsaw and Kraków are are slowly climbing towards the average Western European (Ireland to Germany) equilibrium level, and in some cases, even higher. When it comes to rural properties (farms), prices in Poland are still much lower than in the West. There is a valid reason for this though. There are no restrictions on foreigners purchasing flats in Poland, but there are heavy restrictions on foreigners wishing to buy farmland. This by itself is causing larger demand for flats (because of the simplicity involved in purchases) and thus pushing up prices. The foreign demand for rural properties has been termporarily stalled for the time being due to strict laws. Nevertheless, many foreigners are still finding ways around the regulations. The largest obstacle is trying to obtain permission from the Polish Interior Ministry. That process can take a while and many phone calls to your lawyer, and many aspirins. Please provide valid sources (links) of properties in Germany now being cheaper than in Poland?
scorpio
12 Jan 2008
Real Estate / Deals available from Polish property developers [40]
ct11,
I've done the same in 2002. The original house was a wooden log cabin type of house, located on top of a mountain with spectacular views, and lots of land surrounding it. I have a wood supply from my forest that will last me a lifetime for heating my house during the cold season, and beautiful trails that zig zag through the forest for walking and relaxing. It's even better than any small 'park'. I still have some minor cosmetic adjustments to make on the exterior, such as placing white colored 'coins' on each corner of the house, and two more doors to double up each entrance. The porch also needs some minor brick work, and then it's all finished! This is the Europe I dreamed of long ago, away from the crowded cities of the USA. A place I can plant my own vegetables, raise horses, go for long walks on my own property, and jog each day in the fresh air. :-)
I have bought 7 places in Jelenia Gora and Karpacz...none from developers, all needing remont, all from Polish people.
ct11,
I've done the same in 2002. The original house was a wooden log cabin type of house, located on top of a mountain with spectacular views, and lots of land surrounding it. I have a wood supply from my forest that will last me a lifetime for heating my house during the cold season, and beautiful trails that zig zag through the forest for walking and relaxing. It's even better than any small 'park'. I still have some minor cosmetic adjustments to make on the exterior, such as placing white colored 'coins' on each corner of the house, and two more doors to double up each entrance. The porch also needs some minor brick work, and then it's all finished! This is the Europe I dreamed of long ago, away from the crowded cities of the USA. A place I can plant my own vegetables, raise horses, go for long walks on my own property, and jog each day in the fresh air. :-)
scorpio
15 Jan 2008
Real Estate / Deals available from Polish property developers [40]
Thanks markme! Have you ever been to Poland, and if you have, do you visit often? Living here during the past 5+ years has been a big change in lifestyle for me. Instead of waking up 5:00 am each morning to take a bus, ferry, and subway to Manhattan, partaking in the rat race and working in the office each day until 10:00 pm, my lifestyle has been much more relaxing. Simple things such as renovating my barn, collecting old farming antiques that date before the second war, reading and learning about the history of this region, visiting old castle ruins and other monuments on my mountain bike with packback and camera, maintaing the trails and paths in my forests, splitting firewood, taking photos of nature, observing various plant and bird species, are some of the things I enjoy. It beats sitting dressed up with suit and tie behind my pc all day, stressed out with projects and office politics. A big change indeed! :-)
I think society today spends way too much time working until the ripe age of 65 years old, hoping to live long enough to enjoy their pension and retirement. It's wiser to make the move enjoying your dreams a bit earlier, to enjoy the free time that most people never have. Of course, many can't make this move due to family and personal reasons. It's all relative.
Looks beautiful scorpio, and I really like the sounds of walking/jogging on your own property each day. Enjoy it in good health.
Thanks markme! Have you ever been to Poland, and if you have, do you visit often? Living here during the past 5+ years has been a big change in lifestyle for me. Instead of waking up 5:00 am each morning to take a bus, ferry, and subway to Manhattan, partaking in the rat race and working in the office each day until 10:00 pm, my lifestyle has been much more relaxing. Simple things such as renovating my barn, collecting old farming antiques that date before the second war, reading and learning about the history of this region, visiting old castle ruins and other monuments on my mountain bike with packback and camera, maintaing the trails and paths in my forests, splitting firewood, taking photos of nature, observing various plant and bird species, are some of the things I enjoy. It beats sitting dressed up with suit and tie behind my pc all day, stressed out with projects and office politics. A big change indeed! :-)
I think society today spends way too much time working until the ripe age of 65 years old, hoping to live long enough to enjoy their pension and retirement. It's wiser to make the move enjoying your dreams a bit earlier, to enjoy the free time that most people never have. Of course, many can't make this move due to family and personal reasons. It's all relative.
scorpio
24 Feb 2008
Travel / Your favourite Polish region/city, etc [32]
Jabwaw, I live only 15 km south-west of Tuchów. Indeed, it's a very nice small city.
I like: Tarnów, Żabno, Dąbrowa Tarnowska, Zalipie, Tuchów, Ciężkowice, Grybów, Pilzno, Ryglice, Biecz, Jasło, Krosno, Zakliczyn, Siemiechów, Wojnicz, Czchów, Lusławice, Nowy Sącz, Lipnica Murowana, and Gorlice.
I admire the Carpathian foothills more than any other area in Poland, with it's many lush forests, valleys, panoramas, farms, clean unchlorinated water, where nature abounds. Many nice castle ruins, medieval towns, and roadside chapels. I prefer the foothills to the Zakopane region anytime because I can do without the immense crowds of obnoxious tourists. It is also one of the few places in Poland where it isn't flat.
I love Garbarka , Poznan, Nowy sacz, Tuchow :) simply love these places :)
Jabwaw, I live only 15 km south-west of Tuchów. Indeed, it's a very nice small city.
I like: Tarnów, Żabno, Dąbrowa Tarnowska, Zalipie, Tuchów, Ciężkowice, Grybów, Pilzno, Ryglice, Biecz, Jasło, Krosno, Zakliczyn, Siemiechów, Wojnicz, Czchów, Lusławice, Nowy Sącz, Lipnica Murowana, and Gorlice.
I admire the Carpathian foothills more than any other area in Poland, with it's many lush forests, valleys, panoramas, farms, clean unchlorinated water, where nature abounds. Many nice castle ruins, medieval towns, and roadside chapels. I prefer the foothills to the Zakopane region anytime because I can do without the immense crowds of obnoxious tourists. It is also one of the few places in Poland where it isn't flat.
scorpio
1 May 2008
Real Estate / Current price of Homes in Poland [41]
Tosca asked: "Could somebody advise of state of property prices in Poland, are they still going up???"
First, you must clearly define the type of property you are referring to:
1) Flat
2) House (located on less than 1 hectare of land)
3) House (located on 1 hectare or more of land, which makes it eligible for a 'farm')
4) Land (less than one hectare)
5) Land (one hectare or more which can be used for farmland if arable)
Land can be further divided into commercial or arable (farmland).
Certain restrictions apply to foreigners. A foreigner (non Polish citizen) can freely purchase (1) (2) (4), however permission may be required for (2) (4). For property types (3) (5), permission is required from the Interior Ministry and Polish government, prior to the year 2012.
From the year 2012 and thereafter, a foreigner may be able to purchase (3) (5) - farms and farmland withou restrictions or permission. This is where much further price fluctuation, appreciation, and price equilibrium are possible due to the current purchasing restrictions in place. Market forces have not yet determined the true market value and price equilibrium for such properties due to the lack of a free market (market which includes everyone) in these types. Anyone with a Polish spouse may want to seriously consider purchasing this type of property prior to the year 2012, while decent prices are still around.
Flats, private homes located on less than 1 hectare, or land less than 1 hectare have seen more market play and price equilibrium due to the open market policy in buying and selling.
So first ask yourself, which property type do you wish to invest in? It is essential to consider the facts noted above when you have determined the property you desire. Also as a previous poster had mentioned, location is part of the price formula. Again, remember the date 2012. This is a key date in the Polish property market. Good luck!
Tosca asked: "Could somebody advise of state of property prices in Poland, are they still going up???"
First, you must clearly define the type of property you are referring to:
1) Flat
2) House (located on less than 1 hectare of land)
3) House (located on 1 hectare or more of land, which makes it eligible for a 'farm')
4) Land (less than one hectare)
5) Land (one hectare or more which can be used for farmland if arable)
Land can be further divided into commercial or arable (farmland).
Certain restrictions apply to foreigners. A foreigner (non Polish citizen) can freely purchase (1) (2) (4), however permission may be required for (2) (4). For property types (3) (5), permission is required from the Interior Ministry and Polish government, prior to the year 2012.
From the year 2012 and thereafter, a foreigner may be able to purchase (3) (5) - farms and farmland withou restrictions or permission. This is where much further price fluctuation, appreciation, and price equilibrium are possible due to the current purchasing restrictions in place. Market forces have not yet determined the true market value and price equilibrium for such properties due to the lack of a free market (market which includes everyone) in these types. Anyone with a Polish spouse may want to seriously consider purchasing this type of property prior to the year 2012, while decent prices are still around.
Flats, private homes located on less than 1 hectare, or land less than 1 hectare have seen more market play and price equilibrium due to the open market policy in buying and selling.
So first ask yourself, which property type do you wish to invest in? It is essential to consider the facts noted above when you have determined the property you desire. Also as a previous poster had mentioned, location is part of the price formula. Again, remember the date 2012. This is a key date in the Polish property market. Good luck!
scorpio
1 May 2008
Real Estate / Another Interesting Polish Real Estate Article [3]
In "Newsday" recently a nice article on Polish real estate appeared, entitled: newsday.com/business/ny-bzwagn0422,0,3584692.story - Developer Polimeni finds paradise in Poland".
Some quotes from the article:
- ...beautiful waterfront paradise, the city of Hel, on the Hel peninsula. The site is what Polimeni calls "the Hamptons of Poland."
- "It's where everyone wants to be," he said.
- "The country's on fire," Polimeni reported fresh off the plane yesterday.
- "It's almost the reverse of what's happening here (USA)," he says. "The economy (Poland) is growing in leaps and bounds, where here (USA) we're looking at a potential disaster."
- "In Poland, meanwhile, the biggest problem is construction costs. There are labor and material shortages, and projects now cost about double what they did 10 years ago. But that barrier isn't high enough to slow him down."
Interesting view point on the Polish property market from Mr. Polimeni.
Note: There are many views on the current property market in Poland, and where it is headed. Use caution and your intelligence when choosing to invest in property anywhere.
In "Newsday" recently a nice article on Polish real estate appeared, entitled: newsday.com/business/ny-bzwagn0422,0,3584692.story - Developer Polimeni finds paradise in Poland".
Some quotes from the article:
- ...beautiful waterfront paradise, the city of Hel, on the Hel peninsula. The site is what Polimeni calls "the Hamptons of Poland."
- "It's where everyone wants to be," he said.
- "The country's on fire," Polimeni reported fresh off the plane yesterday.
- "It's almost the reverse of what's happening here (USA)," he says. "The economy (Poland) is growing in leaps and bounds, where here (USA) we're looking at a potential disaster."
- "In Poland, meanwhile, the biggest problem is construction costs. There are labor and material shortages, and projects now cost about double what they did 10 years ago. But that barrier isn't high enough to slow him down."
Interesting view point on the Polish property market from Mr. Polimeni.
Note: There are many views on the current property market in Poland, and where it is headed. Use caution and your intelligence when choosing to invest in property anywhere.
scorpio
1 May 2008
History / An Example of Falsifying Historical Facts and Degrading Poland [46]
In today's IsraelNationalNews, some historical facts were either greatly exaggerated or simply false in the article, "Ready to be Reclaimed: Jewish Property in Poland" by Hillel Fendel.
To begin with, the article states: "Life (Jewish) was erased, but property was not; it is still there."
The above statement is not entirely correct. Under the terms of the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact, adjusted by agreement on 28 September 1939, the Soviet Union annexed all Polish territory east of the line of the rivers Pisa, Narew, Western Bug, and San, except for Wilno Voivodship with its capital Wilno (Vilnius), which was given to Lithuania, and the Suwałki region, which was annexed by Nazi Germany. Initially captured by Poland in a series of wars between 1918 and 1921 (primarily the Polish-Soviet War), these territories had mixed population of different nationalities with Poles and Ukrainians being the most numerous ethnic groups, as well as large minorities of Belarusians and Jews. The total area, including the area given to Lithuania, was 201,015 square kilometres, with a population of 13.299 million, of which 5.274 million were ethnic Poles and 1.109 million were Jews. An additional 138,000 ethnic Poles and 198,000 Jews fled the German occupied zone and became refugees in the Soviet occupied region.
So, given those facts, current day Poland (physical land area) contains former properties of approximately 2/3 of the Jews (about 2,000,000) that lived in pre-WWII Poland, and not all of them. Hence, a large portion of the property in Poland 'has been erased', and 'not all of it is still there'. A large stake is still located in Lithuania, Belarus, Russia, and Ukraine. About 1,000,000 of Poland's Jews lived in the former Eastern lands.
The article also stated: "By not trying to claim these properties, we are allowing a situation of allowing the murderers to inherit as well...".
In essence, the author is accusing the Poles of being the murderers of the Jews during WWII, not the Germans. Any Poles that did murder Jews represent only a tiny minority of the general population, too small to even be considered significant.
in another article entitled, "No Tears in Poland", Kate Rosenberg says:
"Last night I arrived in Krakow. It was cold. The air was wet. I waited alone in this cold wet for 20 minutes.
A drunk woman stopped and swayed in front of me for a few minutes. She kindly left me an empty flask of Wodki. I felt lonely.
Finally the owner of the apartment arrived. The building smelt of cat urine. There were young men standing on the lower floor drinking."
Why even mention a 'drunk woman and a building that may have smelt of cat urine' ? How were these descriptions even integral to the heart of her article? Too me, it seems the author of the blog was only trying to show how 'uncivilized Poland is', and possibly attempting to related to her readers that Poland prior to WWII was this way. Well, to be fair, she also should have mentioned all of the prostitutes and brothels that are in Israel today, and that Israel has one of the largest sex industries and women trafficking in the entire world. It's brothels are full of 'drunks' flirting with prostitutes and the mafia present everywhere. Fair enough? I think so.
These type of news stories are only a 'drop in the bucket' when it comes to historical revision and degrading Poles and Poland. When will it ever end?
In today's IsraelNationalNews, some historical facts were either greatly exaggerated or simply false in the article, "Ready to be Reclaimed: Jewish Property in Poland" by Hillel Fendel.
To begin with, the article states: "Life (Jewish) was erased, but property was not; it is still there."
The above statement is not entirely correct. Under the terms of the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact, adjusted by agreement on 28 September 1939, the Soviet Union annexed all Polish territory east of the line of the rivers Pisa, Narew, Western Bug, and San, except for Wilno Voivodship with its capital Wilno (Vilnius), which was given to Lithuania, and the Suwałki region, which was annexed by Nazi Germany. Initially captured by Poland in a series of wars between 1918 and 1921 (primarily the Polish-Soviet War), these territories had mixed population of different nationalities with Poles and Ukrainians being the most numerous ethnic groups, as well as large minorities of Belarusians and Jews. The total area, including the area given to Lithuania, was 201,015 square kilometres, with a population of 13.299 million, of which 5.274 million were ethnic Poles and 1.109 million were Jews. An additional 138,000 ethnic Poles and 198,000 Jews fled the German occupied zone and became refugees in the Soviet occupied region.
So, given those facts, current day Poland (physical land area) contains former properties of approximately 2/3 of the Jews (about 2,000,000) that lived in pre-WWII Poland, and not all of them. Hence, a large portion of the property in Poland 'has been erased', and 'not all of it is still there'. A large stake is still located in Lithuania, Belarus, Russia, and Ukraine. About 1,000,000 of Poland's Jews lived in the former Eastern lands.
The article also stated: "By not trying to claim these properties, we are allowing a situation of allowing the murderers to inherit as well...".
In essence, the author is accusing the Poles of being the murderers of the Jews during WWII, not the Germans. Any Poles that did murder Jews represent only a tiny minority of the general population, too small to even be considered significant.
in another article entitled, "No Tears in Poland", Kate Rosenberg says:
"Last night I arrived in Krakow. It was cold. The air was wet. I waited alone in this cold wet for 20 minutes.
A drunk woman stopped and swayed in front of me for a few minutes. She kindly left me an empty flask of Wodki. I felt lonely.
Finally the owner of the apartment arrived. The building smelt of cat urine. There were young men standing on the lower floor drinking."
Why even mention a 'drunk woman and a building that may have smelt of cat urine' ? How were these descriptions even integral to the heart of her article? Too me, it seems the author of the blog was only trying to show how 'uncivilized Poland is', and possibly attempting to related to her readers that Poland prior to WWII was this way. Well, to be fair, she also should have mentioned all of the prostitutes and brothels that are in Israel today, and that Israel has one of the largest sex industries and women trafficking in the entire world. It's brothels are full of 'drunks' flirting with prostitutes and the mafia present everywhere. Fair enough? I think so.
These type of news stories are only a 'drop in the bucket' when it comes to historical revision and degrading Poles and Poland. When will it ever end?
scorpio
2 May 2008
History / An Example of Falsifying Historical Facts and Degrading Poland [46]
Listen, I am all for individuals and their relatives getting either their property back, or at least some monetary compensation. Polish Catholics and the Polish government lost a large chunk of their land after WWII, including cities like Wilno, Grodno, Lwow, Stanislawow, Tarnopol, and the thousands of private estates, palaces, castles, etc. The Polish government, and Polish Catholics, lost far more assets during the war than their fellow Polish Jews, and yet, who is it today that contantly demands restitution and whines about it? Do you see Poles demanding all of their former Eastern territories back today? No. And yet, many Jewish individuals, just like the author of this article, still think that all former Jewish properties are located in the present day boundries of Poland. They fail to realize that Poland's borders and population shifted greately after the war.
For that approximately 1/3 of Polish Jews who lived in the former Eastern territories of Poland, should present day Poland pay restitution for those properties? This is the point I was trying to make. Approximately 1,000,000 individuals isn't a small number and I wouldn't even mention this fact of Poland's borders if it were a small number. Also, Poland lost enormous wealth by losing her Eastern properties. If Jews can get compensation for their properties lost in "Poland", then why can't Poles get compensation from Russia for their large piece of Eastern territories and properties ("Kresy") lost? Sounds like hypocrism, doesn't it? Jewish historians and holocaust restitution 'assessors' should keep in mind the shifting of Poland's borders after the war, when calculating how much former Jewish wealth remains in present day Poland's borders. They should also calculate how much wealth Polish Catholics lost in the East after the war, and then ask themselves, "Are we the only one's that lost assets during WWII?"
The point in showing the second article was to provide an example of how certain Jewish authors enjoy describing some small, unflattering trivial items in Poland during their visits here. It is so common for them to talk about the 'drunks' they encounter or the "smell of urine". Every country has these negative vices and isn't something only encountered in Poland. To mention such facts along with mourning fellow Jews that perished in the 'holocaust' doesn't make sense. It seems more like the author is simply painting an ugly picture of Poland for personal reasons.
Poland has taken great strides to 'bend down' to Jews and make unnecessary apologies. Have Jews apologized for the their large number in the communist apparatus, that tortured, killed, and deported thousands of Polish Catholics yet? No, it hasn't happened.
Listen, I am all for individuals and their relatives getting either their property back, or at least some monetary compensation. Polish Catholics and the Polish government lost a large chunk of their land after WWII, including cities like Wilno, Grodno, Lwow, Stanislawow, Tarnopol, and the thousands of private estates, palaces, castles, etc. The Polish government, and Polish Catholics, lost far more assets during the war than their fellow Polish Jews, and yet, who is it today that contantly demands restitution and whines about it? Do you see Poles demanding all of their former Eastern territories back today? No. And yet, many Jewish individuals, just like the author of this article, still think that all former Jewish properties are located in the present day boundries of Poland. They fail to realize that Poland's borders and population shifted greately after the war.
For that approximately 1/3 of Polish Jews who lived in the former Eastern territories of Poland, should present day Poland pay restitution for those properties? This is the point I was trying to make. Approximately 1,000,000 individuals isn't a small number and I wouldn't even mention this fact of Poland's borders if it were a small number. Also, Poland lost enormous wealth by losing her Eastern properties. If Jews can get compensation for their properties lost in "Poland", then why can't Poles get compensation from Russia for their large piece of Eastern territories and properties ("Kresy") lost? Sounds like hypocrism, doesn't it? Jewish historians and holocaust restitution 'assessors' should keep in mind the shifting of Poland's borders after the war, when calculating how much former Jewish wealth remains in present day Poland's borders. They should also calculate how much wealth Polish Catholics lost in the East after the war, and then ask themselves, "Are we the only one's that lost assets during WWII?"
The point in showing the second article was to provide an example of how certain Jewish authors enjoy describing some small, unflattering trivial items in Poland during their visits here. It is so common for them to talk about the 'drunks' they encounter or the "smell of urine". Every country has these negative vices and isn't something only encountered in Poland. To mention such facts along with mourning fellow Jews that perished in the 'holocaust' doesn't make sense. It seems more like the author is simply painting an ugly picture of Poland for personal reasons.
Poland has taken great strides to 'bend down' to Jews and make unnecessary apologies. Have Jews apologized for the their large number in the communist apparatus, that tortured, killed, and deported thousands of Polish Catholics yet? No, it hasn't happened.
scorpio
2 May 2008
Real Estate / Real estate agency in Poland (that does not target foreigners) [14]
Wroclaw Boy said: "It is dificult for a foreigner to buy houses and land till 2009 so they say."
Actually, foreigners will be able to buy houses standing on 1 hectare of land or more without a permit, starting in the year 2012. This also applies to 'land of 1 hectare or more' as well. I mentioned this in another recent thread under "Poland Real Estate".
Wroclaw Boy said: "It is dificult for a foreigner to buy houses and land till 2009 so they say."
Actually, foreigners will be able to buy houses standing on 1 hectare of land or more without a permit, starting in the year 2012. This also applies to 'land of 1 hectare or more' as well. I mentioned this in another recent thread under "Poland Real Estate".
scorpio
2 May 2008
Real Estate / Real estate agency in Poland (that does not target foreigners) [14]
Actually, the original year was intended to be around 2018. After Poland joined the EU, that year was reduced to 2012. I think this is what you are referring to.
Houses which are located on plots of land not equal to or greater than 1 hectare aren't much of a problem to purchase without a permit. The key number in determing if a property is eligible to fall under the 'farm or farmland' category is "equal to or greater than 1 hectare of arable land". So, if you define a 'smaller plot' of that being less than 1 hectare, then a foreigner wishing to purchase such a property without a permit today shouldn't pose much of a problem.
I thought foreigners were going to have some kind of relief 5 years after Poland joined the EU?
Actually, the original year was intended to be around 2018. After Poland joined the EU, that year was reduced to 2012. I think this is what you are referring to.
but what about normal inner city houses for example, with smaller plots.
Houses which are located on plots of land not equal to or greater than 1 hectare aren't much of a problem to purchase without a permit. The key number in determing if a property is eligible to fall under the 'farm or farmland' category is "equal to or greater than 1 hectare of arable land". So, if you define a 'smaller plot' of that being less than 1 hectare, then a foreigner wishing to purchase such a property without a permit today shouldn't pose much of a problem.
scorpio
2 May 2008
History / More Revision of Historical Fact in Ynet News Israel (Poles engaged in slaughter of Jews?) [72]
In a recent article entitled entitled "When Warsaw cried" by Noah Klieger, two events in Polish history were interpreted incorrectly and exaggerated.
The article states: "Among other things, Peres noted that in the wake of World War II, in the summer of 1946, hundreds of Poles including military and police personnel engaged in slaughter in the Jewish center in Kielce, where more than 100 Jews were brutally murdered. Peres also made note of the 1968 expulsion of about 70,000 Jews."
Until today, the initial instigators and perpetrators of the so called 'Kielce Pogrom" are being investigated by the Polish Institute of National Remembrance. There are 'two' version of the events in Kielce. One states that the pogrom was the brainchild of the Soviet (Russian) authorities during communist run Poland, as a way to discredit Poland. The Soviet's instigated and carefully orchestrated the events to unravel in a way that made it appear as though it were the work of the Poles. The second version, the one embraced by most Jewish historians and Jews alike, is that Polish Catholics attacked and killed Jews in a wild rampage, due to a blood libel rumor. Before any article mentions "Kielce", the author had better mention the 'two versions' of this ugly episode, and not only one until the true version is determined.
In reference to the 1968 expulsion of Jews from Poland, how is the number "70,000" being determined? You can read any history book on thie event and clearly see that it was 20,000 to 35,000 Polish Jews that were expelled from the country by the Soviet dominated Communist government at that time, and not 70,000.
Such articles are spewed out on a daily basis by the media, and people read and then subsequently believe what they read. Such articles must be examined and corrected, for the sake of historical truth.
In a recent article entitled entitled "When Warsaw cried" by Noah Klieger, two events in Polish history were interpreted incorrectly and exaggerated.
The article states: "Among other things, Peres noted that in the wake of World War II, in the summer of 1946, hundreds of Poles including military and police personnel engaged in slaughter in the Jewish center in Kielce, where more than 100 Jews were brutally murdered. Peres also made note of the 1968 expulsion of about 70,000 Jews."
Until today, the initial instigators and perpetrators of the so called 'Kielce Pogrom" are being investigated by the Polish Institute of National Remembrance. There are 'two' version of the events in Kielce. One states that the pogrom was the brainchild of the Soviet (Russian) authorities during communist run Poland, as a way to discredit Poland. The Soviet's instigated and carefully orchestrated the events to unravel in a way that made it appear as though it were the work of the Poles. The second version, the one embraced by most Jewish historians and Jews alike, is that Polish Catholics attacked and killed Jews in a wild rampage, due to a blood libel rumor. Before any article mentions "Kielce", the author had better mention the 'two versions' of this ugly episode, and not only one until the true version is determined.
In reference to the 1968 expulsion of Jews from Poland, how is the number "70,000" being determined? You can read any history book on thie event and clearly see that it was 20,000 to 35,000 Polish Jews that were expelled from the country by the Soviet dominated Communist government at that time, and not 70,000.
Such articles are spewed out on a daily basis by the media, and people read and then subsequently believe what they read. Such articles must be examined and corrected, for the sake of historical truth.
scorpio
2 May 2008
News / Israeli youths misbehave in Poland ceremony score [47]
From Ynet News in Israel: "Bad manners at Warsaw Ghetto" by Attila Somfalvi...here is a quote from the piece:
The article was very fair, and honest. If Polish visitors to Israel had acted in such a disrespecful manner, they would have been immediately dubbed "anti-semitic" and the event would have made front headlines in the "New York Times" and "CBS World News". Why the double standards?
From Ynet News in Israel: "Bad manners at Warsaw Ghetto" by Attila Somfalvi...here is a quote from the piece:
"It's been a while since I felt both so proud and so embarrassed to be Israeli at the same time, as I felt during my visit to Poland."
"It is difficult to describe the huge Polish investment in the event. It is also difficult to describe the reverence shown by the hundreds of non-Israeli invitees to the speeches delivered by the two presidents, the singing of the El Maleh Rachamim memorial prayer, the Israeli national anthem, the Hebrew prayers, and the entire ceremony. It appeared that everyone was doing above and beyond in order to honor the memory of the Warsaw Ghetto heroes. "
"It is difficult to describe the huge Polish investment in the event. It is also difficult to describe the reverence shown by the hundreds of non-Israeli invitees to the speeches delivered by the two presidents, the singing of the El Maleh Rachamim memorial prayer, the Israeli national anthem, the Hebrew prayers, and the entire ceremony. It appeared that everyone was doing above and beyond in order to honor the memory of the Warsaw Ghetto heroes. "
The article was very fair, and honest. If Polish visitors to Israel had acted in such a disrespecful manner, they would have been immediately dubbed "anti-semitic" and the event would have made front headlines in the "New York Times" and "CBS World News". Why the double standards?
scorpio
11 May 2008
History / More Revision of Historical Fact in Ynet News Israel (Poles engaged in slaughter of Jews?) [72]
Incorrect and untrue. The Poles don't deny it and do admit there is a minor issue in their country with racists etc. The true problem is the lengths that 'others' (media, certain ethnic/religious groups, certain people) go to show that Poland does have a problem with it, and it is way too often overblown and exaggerated. That is the problem as I see it.
the point about the polish is the lengths they go to to deny it.
Incorrect and untrue. The Poles don't deny it and do admit there is a minor issue in their country with racists etc. The true problem is the lengths that 'others' (media, certain ethnic/religious groups, certain people) go to show that Poland does have a problem with it, and it is way too often overblown and exaggerated. That is the problem as I see it.
scorpio
11 May 2008
History / More Revision of Historical Fact in Ynet News Israel (Poles engaged in slaughter of Jews?) [72]
Harry & BubbaWoo,
You seem to never quantify the number of Poles you are referring to as 'racist, anti-xxx, etc'. Instead, you have the tendency to say "Poles" or "Poland", indicating, you are accusing an entire country, and all Poles worldwide. That is a problem you have. Learn not to stereotype, generalize, accuse in the aggregrate, and slander. Read up on your history and current affairs as well, using objective sources. It will make you a more educated individual. Obviously, you both have an inbred hatred of Poles and Poland and a twisted agenda to distort the true facts.
Harry & BubbaWoo,
You seem to never quantify the number of Poles you are referring to as 'racist, anti-xxx, etc'. Instead, you have the tendency to say "Poles" or "Poland", indicating, you are accusing an entire country, and all Poles worldwide. That is a problem you have. Learn not to stereotype, generalize, accuse in the aggregrate, and slander. Read up on your history and current affairs as well, using objective sources. It will make you a more educated individual. Obviously, you both have an inbred hatred of Poles and Poland and a twisted agenda to distort the true facts.
scorpio
11 May 2008
History / More Revision of Historical Fact in Ynet News Israel (Poles engaged in slaughter of Jews?) [72]
dtaylor, can you provide some concrete examples of your claim, perhaps via a link to some source on the net of what you are exactly trying to say? I've taught in a Polish public school and have seen firsthand what they learn in classes such as History. I haven't witnessed any form of a 'political agenda'. They learn accurate historical facts very well and I haven't seen anything indicating otherwise. Again, please provide examples.
dtaylor, can you provide some concrete examples of your claim, perhaps via a link to some source on the net of what you are exactly trying to say? I've taught in a Polish public school and have seen firsthand what they learn in classes such as History. I haven't witnessed any form of a 'political agenda'. They learn accurate historical facts very well and I haven't seen anything indicating otherwise. Again, please provide examples.
scorpio
11 May 2008
History / More Revision of Historical Fact in Ynet News Israel (Poles engaged in slaughter of Jews?) [72]
If you are incapable of being more precise rather than vague and hollow headed when senselessly attributing characteristics to an entire population, then you are surely incompetent.
Great to see you entertaining yourself with your shallow humor. The joke is on you and we are all laughing.
if you havent learnt that generalisations can be made and stereotypes do exist then you are spectacularly niave. its a simple approach referred to as 'segmentation' in marketing terms. someone has pigeonholed you
If you are incapable of being more precise rather than vague and hollow headed when senselessly attributing characteristics to an entire population, then you are surely incompetent.
i am fortunate because it provides me with an endless source of amusement
Great to see you entertaining yourself with your shallow humor. The joke is on you and we are all laughing.
scorpio
28 May 2008
Real Estate / Current price of Homes in Poland [41]
I've already happily done so in June, 2002. :-)
This is not an entirely accurate statement. Land prices are in for a big change when the year 2012 is reached. This key year will enable foreigners to purchase farmland without any restrictions. I heard this same year will coincide with Germany's plan to allow Poles to legally work in their country, without any restrictions. Sounds like a deal was struck between the two countries when EU negotiations were in progress several years ago. :-)
join the club ..... there seem to be quite a few other members of PF with the same plan !
I've already happily done so in June, 2002. :-)
At least about land prices one does not have to worry so much anymore.
This is not an entirely accurate statement. Land prices are in for a big change when the year 2012 is reached. This key year will enable foreigners to purchase farmland without any restrictions. I heard this same year will coincide with Germany's plan to allow Poles to legally work in their country, without any restrictions. Sounds like a deal was struck between the two countries when EU negotiations were in progress several years ago. :-)
scorpio
29 May 2008
News / France to lift job restrictions on Poles [84]
Very nice [iht.com/articles/ap/2008/05/28/europe/EU-GEN-Poland-France-Workers.php] article in today's "International Herald Tribune".
Highlights:
- As of July 1, workers from Poland, Slovakia, Hungary, Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, Slovenia and the Czech Republic will be able to seek jobs in France without restrictions.
- Kaczynski praised France's decision, calling it "very important," especially because it covers all professions.
- Poles still face work restrictions in Germany, Austria, Denmark and Belgium.
Comments:
Merci France! It is suprising that Germany still has stiff restrictions on Poles working in their country legally. Poland allows Germnay to invest in all areas of the economy, opening stores and factories, etc. Germany should reciprocate to be fair. All in all, this is very good news regarding France.
Very nice [iht.com/articles/ap/2008/05/28/europe/EU-GEN-Poland-France-Workers.php] article in today's "International Herald Tribune".
Highlights:
- As of July 1, workers from Poland, Slovakia, Hungary, Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, Slovenia and the Czech Republic will be able to seek jobs in France without restrictions.
- Kaczynski praised France's decision, calling it "very important," especially because it covers all professions.
- Poles still face work restrictions in Germany, Austria, Denmark and Belgium.
Comments:
Merci France! It is suprising that Germany still has stiff restrictions on Poles working in their country legally. Poland allows Germnay to invest in all areas of the economy, opening stores and factories, etc. Germany should reciprocate to be fair. All in all, this is very good news regarding France.
scorpio
31 May 2008
News / France to lift job restrictions on Poles [84]
In reference to the Marshall Plan, during the years 1948-1951, Western European nations received $12 billion US dollars in aid to rebuild after WWII. The largest recipients were: UK ($3.3 billion), France ($2.3 billion), West Germany ($1.5 billion). Adjust these figures for inflation and convert this to today's value. It's an enormous sum. Poland never received any of this aid due to the Soviet Union's influence and control, thus preventing all Eastern Block nations from taking part in the Marshall Plan. So tell me, who received a hand out? Poland was further occupied for the next 45 years until 1990. Think about it. Most Western European nations had this enormous monetary aid and time advantage to rebuild. Poland has only just begun.
It is quite surprising that Germany, who instigated WWII, was the cause of millions of deaths and destruction of entire cities and infrastructures, was part of the opposing Axis countries, along with Italy, received this sort of aid. Poland was one of the most devoted Allied countries during WWII with the largest underground operation, and ended up betrayed and neglected by its allies.
I'm not saying Germany shouldn't have received aid, however, Poland didn't.
Poland is not an "Eastern European" nation. It is a "Central European" nation, culturally and geographically.
FAIR ???? do you know the millions of euros poland is siphoning from the eu. Where do you think the finance to build all your new roads etc is coming from. ???
poland gets FAR more out of the eu than what germany, britain, frane, italy get etc.
you are an eastern european nation for christ sake. we owe you nothing, the germans owe you nothing either.
poland gets FAR more out of the eu than what germany, britain, frane, italy get etc.
you are an eastern european nation for christ sake. we owe you nothing, the germans owe you nothing either.
In reference to the Marshall Plan, during the years 1948-1951, Western European nations received $12 billion US dollars in aid to rebuild after WWII. The largest recipients were: UK ($3.3 billion), France ($2.3 billion), West Germany ($1.5 billion). Adjust these figures for inflation and convert this to today's value. It's an enormous sum. Poland never received any of this aid due to the Soviet Union's influence and control, thus preventing all Eastern Block nations from taking part in the Marshall Plan. So tell me, who received a hand out? Poland was further occupied for the next 45 years until 1990. Think about it. Most Western European nations had this enormous monetary aid and time advantage to rebuild. Poland has only just begun.
It is quite surprising that Germany, who instigated WWII, was the cause of millions of deaths and destruction of entire cities and infrastructures, was part of the opposing Axis countries, along with Italy, received this sort of aid. Poland was one of the most devoted Allied countries during WWII with the largest underground operation, and ended up betrayed and neglected by its allies.
I'm not saying Germany shouldn't have received aid, however, Poland didn't.
Poland is not an "Eastern European" nation. It is a "Central European" nation, culturally and geographically.