History /
Poland and Ukraine [240]
Honestly saying Poland is the last country in Europe who supports them and in my opinion they are not able for selfgovern - lets see how they are going to govern their country without support of Polish pan's they hate so much.
First of all, half Ukraine (eastern part) was under communist rule from 1921 to 1991. They suffered gigantic human losses at communists` hands, especially during Great Famine years, counted in millions.
Poland was in communist yoke from 1945 to 1989 and we still haven`t overcome communist habits and culture, there is still chaos and mess, especially in politics. Look at what is happening now in the Sejm.
What do you expect from Ukrainians, then?
Secondly, if they can`t govern themselves, it means that Polish pany didn`t teach them that. The only thing Ukrainians were expected by Poles was to labour in the fields, not to participate in governments.
I dont really care what he want to feel connection to cossacks, Russians or martians but one issue should be clear that territory which belonged to Poland before the war should belong to Poland!
For what reason should they belong to Poland?
Look honestly at Polish achievements in Ukraine - what are they? Pure exploitation of peasants, that`s all. And don`t tell me about Lvov because it was a multicultural and multiethnic city - there were many minorities which contributed to its greatness. Poles did too but they weren`t alone.
OK, even if you persist in taking Lvov as an example of Polish great work in the East, what else? Nothing. Look at Germans and what they did in their partition zone which is in Poland today - they built and developed infrastructure, railways, roads, facilities, cities, which stand till today and are used by Poles in 21 century.
What infrastructure did Poles build in Ukraine? The truth is sad, I know, and it hurts but it is just truth - nothing.
I prefere Russians and our in some cases tense contacts with them are caused by Polish support for Ukrainians. Lets forget about them and talk straight to Russians because they are nation with common sense.
In my opinion alliance with Soviets in 1939 would be much better for Poland than allinace with UK and France who couldn't help Poland on time.
Sasha or Constantine, or another Russian in disguise, stop this propaganda, OK? :):):):):) Ukraine is our strategic partner and despite a few Poles` blindness and anger over the past, it will stay such. :):):) Luckily, Polish elites from left to right have been unanimous on this since 1991. Poland was the first country which acknowledged the independent Ukrainian state.
Ukraine should pay compensations for Poland as Germans paid for Israel. As long as this issue isn't solved Ukraine should be blocked by Poland
Fortunately, you are not and won`t be in the Polish government. :)
pawian:
And naturally, new acquisitions in the West at the cost of Germany should be kept by Poland as well.
You are confused as many people in Poland - What has to do with western border,
do you thing that Germans will pity us and will not take back if oportunity arise?
Hey, man, what are you talking about? Are you talking about war with Germany??? :):):)
Please, be reasonable.
This little map of yours you can ....... is incorrect as I was talking borders from 1939. Anyways I was talking about terrtories which belong to the Ukraine now.
But why do you limit your demands to Ukraine only? Why not take all lands which once were under Polish Lithuanian rule? Especially those in today`s Russia, and the Baltics and Belarus. And keep the ex-German lands too? Don`t you think it would be great to have Great Poland?
:):):):)
And I provided such a map because there aren`t any other available. Luckily ... :):):) it means most Poles are fairly reasonable and they realise that Ukraine seperates us from Russia which has always been an imperial state with a tendency to spread its borders and influence. Russian average people are great, I love them, but Russian elites have never stopped their desire to revive the old empire, once tsarist, later Soviet. Today it is oligarchic crippled empire but the Russian dream of greatness is still lively.
The moment Russia incorporates Ukraine it will become a fully imperial state again, with tragic consequences for herself and her neighbours, including Poland.
That is why Ukraine must remain independent, it is a Polish strategic interest. Poles should do everything to help Ukrainians. Anybody who doesn`t understand it is a political baby. :):):):)
PS. Ironside, last question. You are not Polish, are you? :):):)
