News / Poland's Future Includes Fewer Poles, More Foreigners [324]


key word is vote isn't it?
i should have clarified that if one is born in a place and lives in that same place then their voice (or voices) must account for something and if not there then where?

I hope that clarifies the question.

p.s. never drive to the north of poland from the south if you can avoid it. Never.

News / POLAND TO SIGN US MISSILE SHIELD DEAL TONIGHT [239]

No surprises here. If anyone looks they'll see that i actually wrote, although i'm against this stupid shield, that i believed it would be signed even when it was shelved. this is just tooooo transparent... just puttin that out there...

News / Poland's Future Includes Fewer Poles, More Foreigners [324]


Kind words Mr. Busey, thank you and I'm glad you appreciated it (at least someone did). If you notice, he hasn't answered the original questions and I feel he really has nothing to contribute until he does so.


That's a fair observation based on personal experience and I appreciate your diplomacy. I will make this observation: You are not a 3rd world immigrant and I feel you are able to approach being an immigrant with far more leverage than one who has no real alternatives, keep in mind you can work for a fair wage (presumably) than someone from eg Sudan.

What i saw in London was a lot of people living in squalid conditions and reaping absolute minimul pay before having a large share of it shystered out of them by various "organizations" providing "services and facilities."

These people were without leverage or representation because (my observations) business owners or company policy dictated a "you are very replaceable" attitude to them. Yes it was better than what they could reap financially at home but that is precisely the problem. Businesses know this and this gives them leverage.

The side effect of that is that indigenous workers then have to compete with that, (businesses know this too) so they too have become more replaceable. Not everyone in a given society is going to have specialized skills, that's a reality.

Another problem is accountabilty. What percentage of eg.UK is even able to vote federally, regionally or municipally? What percentage can't vote due to language barriers (like it or not many do not learn the language because it's easy not to and still get by) or legal status?

Bureacrates are becoming less accountable to a growing number of people within countries which have higher amounts of 3rd and developing world immigrants- that is not a healthy democratic situation.


false dichotomy.

I feel the exploitation of poorer countries' work force, labour laws and general lack of leverage would do more to alleviate inequalities than massive westward immigration.


You obviously did and i'm not sure why you're denying as much when the opposite is plain to see.



Excellent points!


Ahh nice attempt at a deflection and parry but to no avail:
I venture that neither of us are 3rd world or developing world immigrants i.e. we are anomallies, not the norm. I'd also say that, personally speaking, there are fewer immigrants coming from Canada to Poland than vice versa so I am not in anyway contributing to an imbalanced economy here. See how I answered your question. Yours will go unanswered until you do me the courtesy of answering mine.

News / Poland's Future Includes Fewer Poles, More Foreigners [324]


Why must i have an agenda? Why can't I simply listen to what someone says then choose to either agree or disagree based on the merits of what they say?


because you haven't answerere any of them directly.

GareyBusey summed it up well and stated it more concisely and diplomatically than I would have.

Here’s a summary of my questions and points (if they aren’t thought through then you've no excuse for why it's taking you so long to come out with a coherent answer).

Pretty simple questions here:
Your statement-


My response-


You haven’t done this and that was my 2nd question, we're still waiting for something intelligible on the first one.

Pretty simple statements here:




Still waiting for you to give two "yes" or "no" answers, however you're right, i should not have written "immigrants" but should have written "3rd world immigrants." I guess i didn't think that one through, you had your chance to seize on that...


Why yes, yes I do, and you keep not answering them despite making the claim that aroused the question in the first place.
Case in point:


Once


Twice


3 times

I've only disagreed with you on one thing (your attempted definition of the "g" word), the rest have been questions.
*resumes slow clap*

History / Norman Davies on the Warsaw uprising [50]


I haven't seen anyone dispute what you've written (at least on this thread, (although i don't understand why you've used the word "you" i'm pretty sure it's mostly a "we" thing).

History and survivors tell us this period was awful for the vast majority in Europe and in this case Poland, most of us cannot imagine such horrors, but what's your point?

News / Poland's Future Includes Fewer Poles, More Foreigners [324]

If one doesn't have a voice in their country of birth then where do they have a voice?

If people are complaining it's important to ask exactly what their complaints are and why. Perhaps they have valid concerns or perhaps they don't. I cannot see the logic in simply dismissing any and all rumblings as "bigoted" before one assesses the actual protest.

Cardno85, you experienced the positive side of immigration, does that mean everyone must have as well?

I feel as there is a bit of a false dichotomy being presented here that we must accept large scale immigration as only completely good or completely bad. Why must it always be either A or Z with so many people and no middle ground? (i'm sure osiol has a pun ready for this)

History / Norman Davies on the Warsaw uprising [50]

Interesting ^^^ I find this terribly interesting BUT with all due respect, what is the relevence of any of this to today?

I mean specifically what is the relevent matter being discussed, not in the general sense of without a past there would be no today. History is fan-f'ing-tastic as long as we can say why a historical fact is relevent to something specific today.

With this thread, i'm afraid i have to side with ukpolska, what's the point?

News / Poland's Future Includes Fewer Poles, More Foreigners [324]


Well I'm not convinced that all of us do. I'll go as so far to say one is not the other. You see one did exist before the other, did it not?

I think you can do better. Define how globalization policies (i've included policies as i think it helps define things) affect immigration. I'm not taking the **** I just want to be clear on your logic of the argument you presented.

After that can you explain why you regard those who question recent, current and projected immigration levels in E.U. or western countries as "stupid?"

GareyBusey (best screen name award btw)

I get what you're saying and I think by and large we agree that specificity is required when discussing things (especially in the abstract). I also agree with your sentiments on lazy thinking (alas we all succumb to it from time to time), the kind which chalks up phenomena to a buzz word and fails to really question why things are moving in the direction they are. Last thing, you stated something that I feel (for Franek) bears (bears, get it?teehee) repeating:


I think that's a heavy statement right there (feel free to agree or disagree). Firstly because, I think, you'll be hard pressed to find anyone who can argue against that and secondly because of the word in bold.

I.E. Who do bureaucrats work for- I mean do they really work for the people or is there another reality? Do bureaucrats have the average person's interests at heart when they make the policies they do?

The answer I have to those last 2 questions leads me to the conclusion that current immigration policies are not meant to be the tide that lifts all boats and the never were.

*edited addition* When i reread your statement i wonder if it in fact isn't a calculation of sorts, e.g. relativity. Seriously, if there is enough disproportion in the standards of living and accessible wealth it is quite easy to predict the outcomes, especially when we add a very irresponsible/liberal policy of intake from where the accessible wealth lies. food for thought

Franek-that sh*t cracked me up!

USA, Canada / Pole (Lukasz Zbylut) - the most wanted student in USA [11]

^I see what you did there...

News / SHOULD POLAND/EUROPE BE WORRIED ABOUT RUSSIA?? [90]

If you don't live in Poland or haven't been doing so for 83% of your life then it's a bit of stretch for you to be identifying yourselves with day to day life here, economically or politically.

However your family is your blood and as people their concerns by rights are your concerns. Therefore you do have a vested interest in what affects your family but, as individuals, you are nonparticipants when it comes to daily life within the borders of Poland.

So when discussing who or what is threatening people in Poland "us" doesn't really include you personally, does it?

News / SHOULD POLAND/EUROPE BE WORRIED ABOUT RUSSIA?? [90]



Why do you write "us" when you don't even live in Poland?

News / Could Poland handle another war? [63]

Kilkline and ShelleyS make me eat crow, this has become a discussion after all. Well done!

News / Could Poland handle another war? [63]

yeah it makes sense in a hypothetical way, but you got a bunch of guys discussing war and conflict on-line.

key words: conflict; on-line

You rarely see insults when guys are discussing which women are the most attractive but funny how that changes with the topic.

News / Poland's Future Includes Fewer Poles, More Foreigners [324]

Thank you, that's a start but can you explain it in reference to the discussion regarding immigration?

Your comment for reference:

Travel / Possible film shoot in Lodz, Poland - need advice [17]

i know an actor currently working for tvn. he's completely 100% fluent in english and polish (raised in 2 countries, no accent) if you're interested.

Love / Polish men vs German men: Who is hotter? [513]

ehhh, southern, you're spending a lot of time on this topic than the ladies. I mean, not that there's anything wrong with that. The other guys and i were just wondering...

Genealogy / Do I Look Polish? (my grandfather was Polish) [60]

Really? i was gonna say maybe that! Well anyhow here's to a lovely couple! all the best for you two.

Genealogy / Do I Look Polish? (my grandfather was Polish) [60]

He does.
I guess you do too but him moreso.

You guys are a nice looking couple. (please tell me you're a couple and not brother and sister or something)

News / Could Poland handle another war? [63]


WOAH-HO-HO! What is this admonishing from the schoolmaster?

You want them to feel the bitter sweet repentence and regret after flaming mr. tornadoo, oh, waaait! You wrote "flaming!"
I thought you had written f,...ahh, never mind.

Seriously, a discussion about war, where'd yah think it was gonna lead to? A consensus.

Have fun "flaming" fellas;)

News / Poland's Future Includes Fewer Poles, More Foreigners [324]


Like i stated, i'm more than willing to engage in that debate once you be so kind as to define what you meant by globalization with respect to immigration. you brought the term into the foray not me. so calm down.


Where did i blame anyone? i simply would like you to define the terms as you understand them so i can better recognize your position. calm down.


never said i was, just want you to define the term you've used. calm down.


Read my original post and you'll see i may very well be in complete agreement with you on that one. And it may still be the case today as well but is immigration the one size fits all quick fix for this? Some say "yes" others "no." We can debate this or not but please just answer my original question and for the love of pete, calm down.


No, i asked you that question as you took exception that i'd be using these terms within the framework of the discussion. I merely wanted to illustrate that i had used them as wealth distribution and population figures are related when looking at the effects of immigration within various countries. Now do you still take exception with my using these terms and if so why?

a generalist? *rolls eyes* generally speaking, no.


I gave you 2 yes or no questions, what was so hard about them? one was in reference to the population density of europe, more specifically united europe. The question can be answered quite easily. It can be verified and may help to shed some light on some perspectives. But maybe they weren't phrased properly, let's ask another forum member and if they're unclear then i'll explain and then you can answer them, ok?


How on god's green earth did you draw that conclusion? You must be referring to another member. Besides questioning the effects of ever increasing immigration does not by virtue lead to limiting freedoms for others (seriously wtf did you mean by that?).

And I'm still wondering why you'd be willing to marginalize people's concerns over increasing immigration.

1 straight question. and 1 query
And still no answers.
Well done *begins slow clap*

telefonitka
sorry, i read something into your reply that wasn't there. i thought you were trying to be gib. my bad and thank you to miranda for being the voice of reason.

News / Poland's Future Includes Fewer Poles, More Foreigners [324]


you're right. I was being a *****.

GodandBrown, what's with the strawman approach- that's disingenuous.


Poverty:
Where was i talking about poverty and in what context? Are you denying that many immigrants, legal or not, live near the poverty line in their new "homes?" A "yes" or "no" will suffice.

Full House:
Europe is the second most densly populated continent (1st if you only include e.u. countries) on the planet. Are you denying this? A "yes" or "no" will suffice.


Who's tellling stories (if you like i can offer you one)? Why would you be so ready to disregard what others are saying they are seeing?

I never said nobody is benefitting but we can discuss who is benefitting, who isn't and who's footing the bill after you define what you mean by globalization as it directly relates to immigration.

News / Poland's Future Includes Fewer Poles, More Foreigners [324]


did i not use quotation marks love?

Regarding your definition:

sorry but that's a bunch of words that says very little in regards to what globalization is in terms of immigration.

that being said let's look at how we can improve your essay:


is this a word (if it is my bad by i presumed it is inter-connectedness)?


...
it is a process or it could be conceived as one? it just as easily couldn't be for that matter. you really can't stick a quantifiable definition hinged with the word "could."

why does your definition allow one to "map patterns," why not just say it's an increase in hegemony or sameness and be done with it?

News / Poland's Future Includes Fewer Poles, More Foreigners [324]


Firstly please define "globalisation" as it pertains to immigration.
Then could you please provide some evidence of this claim?

When people have to move in order to make just a little more and still live near the poverty line then i question the benefits. So many people are saying "hey there's a problem here." Maybe they don't have all the facts but i wouldn't be so quick to label people "stupid" for noticing a connection between a rise in 3rd world immigration and rises in crime or dischord within european borders.

I'm not saying western wealth and 3rd world poverty are not interconnected but i can't fault the average european for not being overly welcoming in an already very full house.

News / Should Poland send volunteers to Georgia ? [100]

getting involved would be the stupidest thing polish leaders could decide to do regarding this matter.

News / Poland's Future Includes Fewer Poles, More Foreigners [324]

the governments of countries generally kow tow to big business and it's in big business' interests to have workers without rights. illegal immigrants best fill this role.

keep in mind that globally, the middle class is shrinking with those living at or below the poverty line (by country) is increasing.

sometimes i wonder if national parties are such a bad thing. sure they're corrupt but at least it's not with the sophistication that popular parties are.

UK, Ireland / 2 years in London, maybe it's time to go back to Poland? [60]

if you're happy then why screw it up? you want to leave because you're worried you might end up missing out on chances, what about the chances you're taking advantage of where you are? have you tried other cities abroad? maybe a change of scenery doesn't have to be the same old, same old. But the same old can be pretty comforting at times, can't it?

Time with your family
I don't know your situation but if you need to see them every weekend or every week well then i guess you got to gio. But are you sure you'd find work close to them? if not then how often would you realistically see them?

your ball of wax to handle, not mine but it reads like your following the crowd instead of marching to your own beat.

that's my 2 pence, use it or chuck it, whatever suits you.

USA, Canada / DO AMERICANS/CANADIANS TRAVEL TO POLAND???? [57]

in response to your posted assumption i regret to inform you that no i'm not british ya muppet.


And the u.s. isn't? Besides the point really as most of the 7 (i don't count russia), no wait 6 (italy's out too) leading industrialized nations and most if not all the english speaking nations are being overtaken via immigration. it's simple mathematics really, there's more of them than us. I beleive one can find a rather strong mexican representation in the u.s., no?

USA, Canada / DO AMERICANS/CANADIANS TRAVEL TO POLAND???? [57]

shut up rychlik
yes north american cities can be ugly, but that doesn't mean that polish cities can't be either, the two are not mutually exclusive.

people on here were just politely disagreeing with you and giving good reasons for their opinion.
You're more an annoying, obnoxious, know-it-all yank than a Pole. A lot of polish towns are grey and gray- fact. if you've been to sląsk and haven't got over it then your opinion is worthless as far as aesthetics go.

If you can't figure out why this place hasn't become the attraction for north americans that England is then you're analytical abilities are sorely lacking.

News / America: Take your missile base and shove it! [116]



go on then; show me the irony. i've done a thorough job of showing the irony in your posts. unless you can actually trace the discussion then your just babbling online.


etc? tell me more about the "etc."
you brought up the fact that you are "low on the totem pole" (regarding intelligence and no i don't mean iq or sat scores) not i, so if you don't like my references then ask yourself why you decided to supply that information.


no, you're wrong again, for the 2nd or 3rd time now i recommend you go back to my original statement and see that i clearly defined who are the rootin tootin trigger happy folks in my books, if you want to include all americans in that definition then it is not only your prerogative but your mistake as well.


that all depends on what one tries to prepare for doesn't it. in this case it's a matter of resources that would create ill will and not only that but more importantly, ultimately fail should the worst materialize imho.

you see what i did there? you see it? i showed you exactly where your arguments fail within the context of this discussion. Your failure to acknowledge this and other examples of such is something to behold.

Love / My Polish boyfriend fancies are Pakistani neighbor. What do I do ? [291]

pakistani people can be soooooo attractive it's ridiculous. that being said if a guy is ready to dump his girl based on looks, well then, that's obviously the level he's at. it doesn't matter if your feelings are deeper, his aren't. you have to acknowledge that and act accordingly.

Hey maybe you could go find a pakistani guy, i can't stand being in the room with those suave fcukers and their big brown eyes and their perfect jawlines high cheekbones, etc.

Strategy number 2 is make friends with the temptress and let her know that your man has a lil wiener and any other negative features you can add on. it's not honest and probably won't lead to happiness but hey, it's your life.